TR Paul Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Good morning.... I've recently noticed about 2-3 mm of (in & out) play in the steering column, on TRoy, my 1970 TR6. Upon Investigating, I've found it's coming from the steering rack; the shaft upon which the pinion is mounted, is moving; I realise this will be a rack replacement, but would this be something I need to address ASAP, or will it be safe for me to drive to Castle Combe (from Bournemouth) on Saturday? As ever your advice will be much appreciated, Cheers, Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Hi Paul, are you talking about the shaft from the steering wheel where it attaches the splined shaft at the rack. Or something inside the rack If it is the first option above and you have the rubber doughnut UJ's it is almost certainly the steel clamps on the doughnut. They need relieving of metal = see pic below. Otherwise have you tried tightening the clamp Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 A note about those clamps.. At some point in the past I replaced the bolts with new ones. The new bolts were not fully threaded and even with a washer under the nut, the nut was bottoming out on the bolt shoulder before the clamp was fully tightened. It seemed tight at the time but eventually allowed the shaft to move up and down. There was no risk of the shaft rotating or sliding out but that slight movement was at times disconcerting and also caused other side effects like tooting the horn when I turned the wheel. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Paul Posted September 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Hi Roger, thanks for your reply. It's the shaft which has the pinion on it (that's connected to the U.J at the bottom of the collumn) which is moving. Cheers, Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) Hi Paul, if it is the shaft which is part of the rack&pinion, I would first find out why this axial play developed. Can you see the circlip that secures the pinion shaft in the R&P, is it still there? Waldi Edit: another thought: are you sure it is the pinion shaft that has axial movement, not the lower coupling on that shaft? Edited September 19, 2019 by Waldi Added Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Paul Posted September 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Hi Waldi, I am fairly certain that it is the pinion shaft that is moving, as opposed to the coupling. I will investigate the circlip (or lack of). Thanks for your input, Best wishes, Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Paul Posted September 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Evening chaps, here's an update on my exciting steering rack situation.... The column coupling is solidly fixed to the pinion shaft, which is doing all the moving; Mean while, at the 'front' of the rack, there is no evidence of a circlip, or any location for one. There seems to be a blanking plug 'round there, which feels like it might be undone with an Alen key, or similar. Cheers, Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 4 hours ago, TR Paul said: Evening chaps, here's an update on my exciting steering rack situation.... The column coupling is solidly fixed to the pinion shaft, which is doing all the moving; Mean while, at the 'front' of the rack, there is no evidence of a circlip, or any location for one. There seems to be a blanking plug 'round there, which feels like it might be undone with an Alen key, or similar. Cheers, Paul. Mine has had a bit of play there for the 3 years I've owned the car. There is a bush on the pinion shaft (I haven't pulled it apart yet but the Triumph specialist advised me of it) which can be replaced. It won't cause a steering failure, just a bit of play in the wheel as the few thou of play is taken up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) Hi Waldi, you are thinking about part # 38? https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID200495 Ciao, Marco Edited September 20, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Hi Marco, yes, that’s the one. Will check on my car later this morning if it is visible. Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Paul, have a look in the WSM, section 57. You should see a circlip where the pinion comes out. Without the circlip, you solely rely on the column to retain the pinion in place, not good. The acceptable axial clearance is 0.25 mm (0,01”). If you indeed have 2-3 mm axial play on the pinion, our pinion is probably working its way out. If it can go out further, you cannot steer the car anymore. I would not drive it before I fully understand the cause and fix it. I tried to make a pic of the circlip, but it does not show very clear, but have pics from my rebuild I can send you in large format, pm me your mail adress if you want The other big nut (normally with grease nipple) is for adjustment of play between rack and pinion by thin shims. Best regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) I wanted to take a photo of the circlip on my old steering rack laying in my workshop on the scrap heap. But the circlip is hidden under the coupling (still there) and old grease. To have a closer look the coupling must be taken off. The circlip holds the whole pinnion unit in ist Position. I would not drive, because 2-3 mm in and out is also "empty way" left and right. . Edited September 20, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 I too would not drive it, you dont know the state of the pinion teeth thay might be worn down through partial engagement. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Waldi said: Paul, have a look in the WSM, section 57. You should see a circlip where the pinion comes out. Without the circlip, you solely rely on the column to retain the pinion in place, not good. The acceptable axial clearance is 0.25 mm (0,01”). If you indeed have 2-3 mm axial play on the pinion, our pinion is probably working its way out. If it can go out further, you cannot steer the car anymore. I would not drive it before I fully understand the cause and fix it. I tried to make a pic of the circlip, but it does not show very clear, but have pics from my rebuild I can send you in large format, pm me your mail adress if you want The other big nut (normally with grease nipple) is for adjustment of play between rack and pinion by thin shims. Best regards, Waldi I just re read the original post. I was thinking it was lateral movement on the pinion shaft which is what mine has, about 1mm of it. 2-3mm in and out play I agree with Waldi. Sort it out before driving it. My apologies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Paul Posted September 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Hi Chaps, thanks for the your input. I was already erring on the side of caution regarding the 'rack play, but your input has made my mind up; an 160+ mile round (or any) trip in a TR whose steering pinion could be on the point of failure - Better safe than sorry. I shall be investigating the problem thoroughly before going anywhere. As ever, many thanks for your advice & support, Best wishes, Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Hi Paul, good you saw this, better safe than sorry. It shows the importance of periodic thorough inspection, especially for safety related components/failures. It is best to remove the rack, dismantling and inspection is pretty straight forward, just follow the WSM. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Hi Paul, about 15 - 20 years ago a friend in the then London Group didn't turn up one meeting night. Not a problem. At the next meeting he turned and said guess what happened to me the other week. He was driving to the group meeting and as he turned a corner he pulled on the steering wheel - the wheel continued to come as as he pulled. The car, travelling slowly, carried on in a straight line and bumped into the kerb and stopped. He was trailered to a garage and quite quickly found the problem. As we know, trying to insert the steering column lower pinch bolt can be awkward. So the rather clever PO filed it into a 'D' shape - that is the round plain shank - a 'D' shape Easy to get in, give it a quarter turn and it is locked !!!!! But, these pinch bolts never get really tight - do they. And so over time it turned around and presented its flat side to the waisted section in the steering rack splined pinnion. Where upon it got pulled out. Crackers. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chilliman Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Given the title of this thread I was so hoping for something different..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Paul Posted September 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Again many thanks for all your advice & experiences; a steering rack is not something you want to be cutting corners with (if you'll excuse the terrible pun!). A good & safe weekend to everyone, Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Paul Posted September 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 .....and sorry for the disappointment, John! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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