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TR4 Tyre choice and neg camber advice


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Try Vintage Tyres at Beaulieu. I got a set of T-trac 2's from them 6 weeks ago. They were stamped "DA" - defective appearance  but neither VT nor  I could see any difference between them and the standard and they were £45 each. They fitted and balanced them too while I waited. 

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On 19 September 2019 at 6:20 PM, stillp said:

Surely there has to be something seriously wrong to give that much negative camber Monty?

Pete

Having spent some time looking @ around a couple of dozen TR4s & TR5s @ Kop Hill yesterday I found a huge variance in front camber so who knows what is correct! As an example 4VC had noticeable positive camber & mine & some others were quite negative. Mine appears to drive as well as it has done for the past 12 years apart, from pot hole reaction, setup precisly with laser equipment & suspension thoroughly checked, so remain confused!

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Hi Monty,

You are aware that 4VC is an ex works TR4 and Ian Cornish protects it's pedigree maintaining it in it's ex works preparation and condition. That means the TR4 standard camber of 3 deg positive is maintained, whereas ANY other TR not having bothered about standard settings and dimensions, may well have a different number of modifications (even different height tyres or spring heights will alter the camber showing. 

Apart from which aTR4a has a different camber setting of 0 deg +- 1/2 deg as standard, the neutral to negative camber helping it with it's steering reactions. I can't remember if you are one of the many TR Register members who've asked for my article on Bump Steer correction, the pot hole reaction of your car can be helped greatly by the Bump Steer correction and it will also improve your normal road manners and handling greatly, if you haven't done it I suggest you try it. At a cost of about £1 in steel stock it's at a price you'll like ! Drop me your e mail address and I'll forward a copy of an article and how to do it, at home, in your garage, taking about 3 hours.

Mick Richards

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Yet another vote for the Vredestein T-Trac 2. I recently needed two new rear tyres shortly before Club Triumph's Ten Countries Run and was concerned since the usual suspects were awaiting new supply from Holland. Luckily Vintage Tyre Supplies of Beaulieu had stock. These tyres continue to impress in both wet and dry conditions. Attached picture was taken on the ascent of a very wet Grossglockner. My co-driver tried to unstick the rears on uphill hairpins but they hung on tenaciously. I clearly need more power!

Tim

19. 09. 06 Grossglockner.JPG

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On 9/21/2019 at 6:57 PM, stillp said:

T-Trac 2 are a 'summer' tyre, so tend to be difficult to find as winter approaches. Try Camskill, who managed to get me some after DT let me down.

Pete

I've tried Camskill and they say that they may not be available until next year due to being a 'summer' tyre only. They told me that apparently there is a new directive from Europe because the formulation of the rubber in  'summer ' tyres becomes ineffectual below 8 degrees (iirc) and they want us all to have both a summer and winter set!

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I took my TR round to John Morrison's yesterday and the upper front wishbones that had been shortened were removed and replaced  with standard ones. Also, one of the nearside front lower wishbones had bent on the bump stop. That was replaced and as if by magic the car now stood all square with decent ground clearance. The anti roll bar was also removed as it had sustained some knocks (drop links were bent, probably by speed bumps).

I followed this up with a trip to my local tyre depot and had the wheels tracked by laser, they were a mile out of true. They took quite a few turns before the laser even registered on the gauge!

It now handles somewhat differently and I will probably perservere with the existing tyres until the new ones become available (Vredestein T-Trac)

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  • 2 months later...

I currently have a flat tyre so am tempted to change all my tyres to the correct size now rather than waiting until the spring which was my plan. I had decided to go for the Vredestein T-trac 2 but can't seem to get any at this time of year. My local fitters suggested Nankang Econex NA 1's

"Nankang have developed the Econex NA-1 with a lightweight tyre profile, to help reduce the rolling resistance of the tyre. This in turn results in a greater eco-friendly performance thanks to lower levels of fuel being required. The tyre features an enlarged shoulder section to reduced the pressure on the road surface, reducing the tyre's road noise".

I have no idea whether or not this description means that they will be good or bad for a live axled classic car. Has anyone tried these? They score pretty high in terms of comfort, handling in the dry and wet and for economy. I'm not too worried about longevity.

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I could, John, but the last few times I've had punctures (I seem to get quite a lot on my everyday cars) they've written them off

Andy

 

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The good news is that Camskill now have access to Vredestein T-trac tyres 165 80 r 15 so I've ordered a set. The bad news is that my flat was caused by the fact that the tyre had been fitted with an oversize 'crossply type' inner tube ( I can't recall the exact size) and had creased leading to a leak. This has presented me with a dilemma as the others could have any size of inner tube and until they are removed I just don't know. This could mean leaving the car at the tyre depot for a few days as they will, no doubt, have to order them in specially. Grr!

Andy

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17 minutes ago, Ocheye said:

The good news is that Camskill now have access to Vredestein T-trac tyres 165 80 r 15 so I've ordered a set. The bad news is that my flat was caused by the fact that the tyre had been fitted with an oversize 'crossply type' inner tube ( I can't recall the exact size) and had creased leading to a leak. This has presented me with a dilemma as the others could have any size of inner tube and until they are removed I just don't know. This could mean leaving the car at the tyre depot for a few days as they will, no doubt, have to order them in specially. Grr!

Andy

Best thing is order a set of genuine Michelin tubes from Dougal https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/

Stuart.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I've finally had the Vred T-Trac 2's fitted to the TR4 and driven about 10 miles in the wet. The grip seems good and the ride is much improved (I might even be able to go over speed humps now!). I'm certainly much happier with tyres of the correct size and profile. Unfortunately my speedo is still reading wrong so I may get it re-calibrated at Speedograph.

I would be interested to hear what advice is out there about tyre pressures for this type of tyre on a 4.

Andy

IMG_4018.JPG

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Normal road use with 2 up try it at 26 front and 24 rear. (different to the IRS cars). The extra pressure in the front helps prevent the tyres deforming and giving more understeer. Ooohh and drive it in the corners.

Mick Richards

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52 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Normal road use with 2 up try it at 26 front and 24 rear. (different to the IRS cars). The extra pressure in the front helps prevent the tyres deforming and giving more understeer. Ooohh and drive it in the corners.

Mick Richards

Interesting. It's currently on 24 front /28 rear as per the original spec for radials in the TR4 handbook. I know the walls of the tyres are very different to early radials though I'm surprised that the fronts should be higher than the rears. I had thought that they might need a couple of pounds more in the front though as they looked a tad squidgy.

 

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9 minutes ago, John Morrison said:

I run 22/24 Fr        26/28 RR

Without issue.

John.

Thanks John. You'll have to have another drive in mine in the New Year to see what you think. I think there is a big improvement. Now I've got to find someone in need of a set of lightly used Avon 175/65/r 15's

Andy

Edited by Ocheye
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2 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Normal road use with 2 up try it at 26 front and 24 rear. (different to the IRS cars). The extra pressure in the front helps prevent the tyres deforming and giving more understeer. Ooohh and drive it in the corners.

Mick Richards

Especially salient for those who have fitted a front ARB but no rear ARB to balance out the consequent understeer. 

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4 hours ago, Ocheye said:

Thanks John. You'll have to have another drive in mine in the New Year to see what you think. I think there is a big improvement. Now I've got to find someone in need of a set of lightly used Avon 175/65/r 15's

Andy

Gladly Andy, look forward to it.

John.

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3 hours ago, Drewmotty said:

Especially salient for those who have fitted a front ARB but no rear ARB to balance out the consequent understeer. 

My front ARB is currently off the car as the drop links were catching speed bumps due to smaller o/d tyres and excessive camber. I may have to make adjustments to the pressures again if and when I replace it

Cheers

Andy

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On 12/19/2019 at 4:12 PM, Motorsport Mickey said:

Normal road use with 2 up try it at 26 front and 24 rear. (different to the IRS cars).

What would happen if one had an accident and it was shown that the car was running tyre pressures far removed from manufacturers' recommendations.  In my 55 or so years of driving mostly rear wheel drive cars and my daily drivers still are I have never come across one where the pressures recommended were not higher at the rear.  Presumably there is a reason for that as intuition might suggest higher pressure at the front due to weight etc.

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13 minutes ago, mike ellis said:

What would happen if one had an accident and it was shown that the car was running tyre pressures far removed from manufacturers' recommendations.  In my 55 or so years of driving mostly rear wheel drive cars and my daily drivers still are I have never come across one where the pressures recommended were not higher at the rear.  Presumably there is a reason for that as intuition might suggest higher pressure at the front due to weight etc.

Look out......can of worms coming up.

I suggest that modifying suspension systems by changing geometry, spring rates, dampers or tyre and wheel sizes will have a far greater effect on handling than adjusting the tyre pressures by a couple of psi. 

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