white_wolf Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Hi guys. On my Taimar I found evidence of a leak between the master cylinder and the brake reservoir... The MC has been on my car maybe 3 years at most and bought from ebay from a Tr guy who had it with original receipt at 4 years old then. Still sealed... and the MC was already attached go the reservoir. Fast forward to now... I had a sticking caliper... so ordered new pistons (stainless ones and rebuild seal kit) and also a seal kit to replace only the 2 seals between MC and reservoir. The mating faces were corroded... so I cleaned up, protected with a smear of RRG and new seals fitted. Done all the work and....... something isn't right.. as if air always in the brakes. Went for a drive to bed in the new pads and when home the weep between MC and reservoir is now worse than before. Also found fluid all over the outer of the servo and reservoir lid.. but level looked fine. Ordered a new MC from Rimmers (mainly for warranty if anything goes wrong!) After some research it appears I have a dodgy MC as others have had the same problem. Before overhauling the calipers and seals between MC and reservoir the brakes were fine. My dad has helped me to readjust the rear shoes and drums which helped a little but the brake pedal travel is excessive and pumping seems to help a tiny bit. Anyone else had these problems of now a year? Most posts are around 2016 ish that I've found Just for info, new servo was fitted beginning of this month and again, brakes were fine (even at Blyton!) Edited September 16, 2019 by white_wolf Small additional details Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 One can argue if the leakage has resulted in the corrosion or that the corrosion has resulted in the leakage (the corrosion would creep under the seals and then create a leak path. It could well be the leakage (just minor sweating) was first, then leading to corrosion and then more progressed leakage but am sure someone has investigated the real issue. Anyone? Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Hi WW, regarding the apparent air in brakes. Do you think this because of the longer/spongy pedal travel. have a look here The only thing I have not tried yet assembling the seals with Red Grease. Mine are pretty good having dumped the TRW seals and gone for expensive 'racing' seals. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 4 hours ago, RogerH said: Hi WW, regarding the apparent air in brakes. Do you think this because of the longer/spongy pedal travel. have a look here The only thing I have not tried yet assembling the seals with Red Grease. Mine are pretty good having dumped the TRW seals and gone for expensive 'racing' seals. Roger Interesting Roger. I bought my new pistons and seal kit from Rimmers. The seals I removed from the calipers (that I had fitted 5 years ago) had yellow yellow white Mark's I think.... The new seal kit didnt have any colourings at all. I did dry fit the pistons without seals then fitted seals with brake fluid and a touch of RRG. In both calipers the first pistons went in fantastic and the second piston in both calipers was a little struggle... I opened the bleed nipple in end and then pistons went in. Having viewed the pistons working... they appear fine... but yes, my original post is based on the long pedal travel. The travel was fine pre MC/reservoir reseal. However I cant rule out new seal in calipers as I did these also at same time. New MC arriving tomorrow... I have spare copper pipe and unions and flare kit so will bench bleed on the car then just swap pipes to cars brakes. (I didnt do this 4 years ago... just fitted and bled.... ALOT! Wiped the weep today and within seconds its returned. Hoping a new MC will fix it all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Hi WW, Try holding the brake pedal down for 24hours or so - using a stick jammed behind the steering wheel. This has many supporters to say it works. Roger Edited September 17, 2019 by RogerH typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 Hi Roger. I'll fit the new MC anyway as a leaking isn't going to help... then I'll go from there. Fitted underlay and carpet to garage today and a clear out. I've kept the old seals but binned the old pistons and dust seals. So will give the brakes held down a whirl and if not then I'll try old seals. Many thanks, I'll report back how things go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 Good afternoon, New MC arried today. My idea of making bench bleed pipes failed when I realised I didnt have spare unions in the correct size. Tried bleeding into a bowl... so filled up reservoir and it started to leak out the pipe holes.. bolted in vice and pushed brake plunger part and squirted brake fluid all along the worktop and wall. Anyway, fitted to car, bleed up using tube and bottle annnnnndddd... They seem back to normal! Odd occasion a second pump feels better. I'll re bleed it again in a few days and or after some use but a definite improvement. What I did see was a small amount of fluid where the MC and servo mates. Ended up removing servo to realise the rubber seal pops off and a fell metal wall behind it. Tiny amount. Cleaned up and refitted. Used RRG purely to coat naked surfaces Quote Link to post Share on other sites
matt george Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 My master cylinder was leaking at the join with the reservoir, nearest to the bulkhead. Solved it by replacing with a new rubber O-ring for a proper seal. Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, matt george said: My master cylinder was leaking at the join with the reservoir, nearest to the bulkhead. Solved it by replacing with a new rubber O-ring for a proper seal. Matt Hi Matt, I've already done that and lasted 4 days. The weep was worst than before... Plus with my brake problem so just replaced it. I still have the unit.. maybe spares perhaps... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 If they still have a bit of air in then pump the brakes up hard as you can and jam the pedal down overnight. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 minute ago, stuart said: If they still have a bit of air in then pump the brakes up hard as you can and jam the pedal down overnight. Stuart. I'll have a go. Just rebuilding my greenhouse.... Child labour! Hahaha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 As per suggestion.. cut a few branches down for greenhouse and one trimmed perfect. Haha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Completed the 24 hours with brakes held on but had to go to work...will see later today. Here's to hoping! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 So... Held the brakes on for 24 hours and still have a travel problem. Decided to pull My space genuine girlings out and rebuild using the new seals and stainless steel pistons. A little cleaning up, RRG and fresh fluid. All went well. Removed old bleed nipples and fitted my new ones finger tight. Bolted onto the car and connected lines up. Fitted pads, pressed brakes and hey presto!!! So decided to bleed up and... the bleed nipple threads are naffed. And wouldn't seal. Also my calipers that were on show strange wear on the drivers outer pad again - pic attached. So given in and ordered new calipers from Rimmers. However, they have superseded the 16pb for 16p. Will arrive tomorrow and will fit. Hopefully this will solve all my problems.. the servo is new, MC new, calipers new and rear end all adjusted and looks fine. Only thing left is the PDWA and brake lines. Ihave though of splitting the girling and the other caliper I have (non genuine) and I could make a good one from the pair (and possibly if other side a problem also then a good pair) but ihave no idea in the mating faces seals are same or even if will bolt up correctly being genuine and non genuine.. this was my reason to just replace with new. I'm happy working so far on calipers but always have the mind set they are my last saving grace. And not to scrimp or mess too much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 All pads were sanded flush and the pic above was made in only 30 to 40 miles. Everytime I have a problem it's the same caliper and same piston hole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Did you shim the calipers? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Good question... No. They're just fitted butt flush to the carrier. I've had the car nearly 10 years and always been this way. I have however in the last 2 months fitted new vertical upright and trunnions. But again, brakes were fine until I "tried to fix" the MC to reservoir leak. Are the shims anything special? Also a way to measure exactly a shim size I need? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, white_wolf said: Good question... No. They're just fitted butt flush to the carrier. I've had the car nearly 10 years and always been this way. I have however in the last 2 months fitted new vertical upright and trunnions. But again, brakes were fine until I "tried to fix" the MC to reservoir leak. Are the shims anything special? Also a way to measure exactly a shim size I need? Item 7 Yes they are needed to get central snap off to get it right https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID600152 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Bugger!!!!! They have never been in the car while I've had it. For my small declation my car isn't a Tr6 but a Tvr Taimar but does run Tr6 uprights, trunnions, rear brakes, try diff and shafts. So I imagine in reality it does still need these spacers. I'll get some ordered. Thanks NTC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Quick reality check... my dust shield, a tab has broken off and so I havent refitted to the car on rebuild of new uprights. Isn't much but that metal thickness and spacing is now also missing.. I believe I create my own problems! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Hi That is irrelevant if not fitted the aim is to get the caliper inline with the disc or as you have found out uneven contact , also the brake fluid can pump back and forth giving other problems, trust me you are not alone to leave them out seen it many times. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Ah ok. I did measure the caliper to disc gap on either side and on current setup it is slight skewed. I'll see how it all fits tomorrow with the new bits and work from there. Thanks again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Regarding the shims for the calipers: I do not see how they affect proper working of the brakes. If the caliper is a bit more to “one side”, the pistons wil compensate for that, one piston will move a bit further and that’s it. The shims do not correct if the caliper /pistons/pads is not parallel to the disk, that is an entirely different issue. So my guess is they are just to compensate for fabrication tolerances of all all comonents involved, which are several. So that the disc is in the middle of the caliper, more or less. Note there is no mention of them in the WSM. Or am I missing something? Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Waldi Everything the shims are there to aline the brakes with the disc not the space in between , very rare are they the same top to bottom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white_wolf Posted September 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Hi guys. New calipers arrived and fitted. The calipers are slightly to one side more then over when compared to the disk.. but seem fine. Equally I misunderstood the spacer shim than an alignment shim. Was looking and could only see it (if fitted between caliper and carrier) move the caliper further in board and so the caliper would then rub the disk. Although the calipers from Rimmers are sold as 16P calipers, they do indeed have 16PB pistons and dust covers. I havent driven the car yet but upon bleeding the brakes, they feel normal again. I did consider putting the SS pistons into the new calipers but upon removal both piston seals in 1 caliper damaged and a piece fallen out. Maybe a unseen problem along with the bleed nipple threads. Anyway... hoping for dey weather to go for a spin and report back. Thanks guys for your help and input so far. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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