anotheralan Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 Hi folks. I am hoping somebody can illuminate the following regarding O ring seal to the overdrive selector shaft. Are there one or two? Yes I have a leak that needs fixing. I have done this before, some years ago, but cannot remember whether I replaced one or whether I had the bracket plate off, which sounds a bit more tricky possibly. So I suspect I only replaced one seal behind the collar. I have a margin note in form of a question mark in my Haynes on p148 para 39. To quote "Fit a new O ring over the operating shaft (62), if one was originally fitted, and using a new joint washer (54) refit the bracket (53)............." suggesting the O ring goes behind the bracket plate. Overleaf para 68 and 69 instruct sliding on the distance collar and the operating lever ...no mention of another O ring. Referring to the Moss catalogue, item 55 shows the O ring 500594 with a Qty 2 No. My questions are Are there one or two O rings If I need to remove the bracket plate (to fit the 'first' O ring), does this lead to other tasks, opening a can of technical worms which I may not be able to handle Any and all advice welcomed. I have little confidence in being able to establish the quality of the rubber supplied in the classic retail market since enquiring of one establishment the spec quality of the fuel hose supplied for a Stag. said hose had no printed spec on the exterior and despite being referred to the buyers dept I could get no advice other than it was fuel hose. So I am considering sourcing O rings in Viton rubber from a specialist, which hopefully may be more resilient than the last ones I replaced not that long ago. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 Hi Alan, there are TWO 'O' rings - one at either end. It is not difficult to replace the 'O'ring on the right hand side but ensure you keep an eye on the control valve. Read the workshop manual and anything else [possibly #Buckeye' Aparently these are not normal round 'O' rings they have a flat surface on the inner diameter. ORS do repair kits containing the 'O'rings - they look like normal 'O' rings !!! You coiuld try Q seals - they look like clover leaf in cross section - they have teo contact points. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anotheralan Posted September 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 Hi Roger I had a little bet with myself you would be 1st to reply. Thanks for the advice. I will take a closer look at the other end to see if it is leaking. Exploded diagrams show the setting lever and the internal cam but no indication of an O ring on that side. Is it inside? can you only replace by removing the shaft, after removing the operating valve assembly? Do Haynes mean sliding a ring on the RH end before inserting shaft in the RH bore? And why no mention of the second LH O ring. I know it's Haynes - but even so. I have not found anything in the original manual that deals with this as a maintenance issue and no diags showing that side in any detail. I will continue research as you suggest. I have ordered the rings from Moss so will be interested in seeing their cross section when they arrive next week. Thanks again Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 Hi Alan, the 'O' ring by the setting arm is #55 https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/clutch-transmission-drivetrain/overdrives-components/overdrive-units-components-tr2-4a.html It is inside the little bore where the shaft lives. You need to remove the setting arm - it has a tiny taper pin. If you carefully withdraw the shaft just enough to see the O ring you may be able to replace with little disruption. I'm not sure that the Moss O ring is the correct shape.. If the O ring is wrong it will grip the shaft and may not come out of OD. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRier Posted June 18, 2023 Report Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) Hi guys, I have an A type overdrive on my TR3A but it doesn't have o ring type seals as described here and as shown in the drawings on line. It has something like lip seals. On the solenoid side the seal is actually on the outside of that actuator arm box. On the other side it has that lip type seal fitted more or less as the postings here describe the o ring but it's a lip seal as I said. I've bought a seal kit for an A type from ORS and it has o rings. I can't find reference to lip seal like seals anywhere, I'll talk to ORS tomorrow but meantime anyone offer anything? Edited June 18, 2023 by TRier Typos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 Pleased that this has been returned. I have a rebuilt od that is fitted in a fresh painted rebuild so do not want to remove the box and damage it On filling with oil it leaks from both ends of the operating shaft so did they fit the 2seals ? can I change or fit new ones whilst still in the car . Rebuilt by a very reputable gearbox company Roy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRier Posted July 2, 2023 Report Share Posted July 2, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 11:14 AM, roy53 said: Pleased that this has been returned. I have a rebuilt od that is fitted in a fresh painted rebuild so do not want to remove the box and damage it On filling with oil it leaks from both ends of the operating shaft so did they fit the 2seals ? can I change or fit new ones whilst still in the car . Rebuilt by a very reputable gearbox company Roy You can for new seals whilst it’s in the vehicle, for ease of access i unbolted the gearbox mounting so I could jack it up 100mm or so, just makes life much easier and I find with stuff like seals it’s best to make sure you have good access so that you can get them in properly and square and be sure you didn’t nick anything on the way in so to speak. It is possible they were replaced and are leaking again, it’s a very poor design and one could well replace the seals with the currently recommended o rings and have it leak shortly afterwards in my opinion, I spoke to one of the well known overhaulers last week on this very subject and very helpful guy there said the same thing, they leak. I bought a seal kit recently but didn’t fit the O rings that came with it, it’s not a good application for O rings, the original seals in mine were actually U rings/lip seals, which should be better in this application but apparently nowadays all the suppliers and overhaulers use o rings because the lip seals or U rings aren’t available. I did find a lip seal with the correct dimensions, from a bicycle application actually, and I think it’s going to do a much better job but don’t have any evidence yet, just fitting them now. I’ll share the details here if they work well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted July 15, 2023 Report Share Posted July 15, 2023 Well they were fitted to mine . 2 round o rings but very hard so i guess that was my problem. Came from Moss but left dry for 18 months to 2 years so that could be the reason ? I await TRier's response on which seals to fit. Roy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRier Posted July 16, 2023 Report Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) OK, I’ve done 600 miles now with the new seals fitted and not a drop passing so I’m very happy with them, will they be fine in 6 months? I don’t know yet but I believe they will, if you want to try then by all means have a go. For sure this application is not a good one for O rings at all. The original Triumph item was a U seal as per my earlier photos, these ones I’ve used are a rotary seal and this is a rotary application, they’re a tiny lip seal basically. I can confirm that they fit perfectly and the over drive works perfectly with them so there is no apparent drag on the shaft which might load the overdrive solenoid. Images below for the new ones, you can compare to the Triumph originals in the earlier post. Link below for supplier for new ones. https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p33127/0.31x0.5x0.12-inch-Nitrile-Rubber-Rotary-Shaft-Oil-Seal-VC-Style/product_info.html Edited July 16, 2023 by TRier Typo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 16, 2023 Report Share Posted July 16, 2023 Good research Thank you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 Thank you TRier. Well found. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 Don't need them yet, but duly noted ! Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 Excellent info, a problem solved and the solution passed on to anyone who needs to know, JUST what our forum is all about. Many thanks John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted August 18, 2023 Report Share Posted August 18, 2023 On 7/16/2023 at 10:06 PM, TRier said: OK, I’ve done 600 miles now with the new seals fitted and not a drop passing so I’m very happy with them, will they be fine in 6 months? I don’t know yet but I believe they will, if you want to try then by all means have a go. For sure this application is not a good one for O rings at all. The original Triumph item was a U seal as per my earlier photos, these ones I’ve used are a rotary seal and this is a rotary application, they’re a tiny lip seal basically. I can confirm that they fit perfectly and the over drive works perfectly with them so there is no apparent drag on the shaft which might load the overdrive solenoid. Images below for the new ones, you can compare to the Triumph originals in the earlier post. Link below for supplier for new ones. https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p33127/0.31x0.5x0.12-inch-Nitrile-Rubber-Rotary-Shaft-Oil-Seal-VC-Style/product_info.html fitted these and now problem solved. Many thanks for searching these out TRier Roy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted August 25, 2023 Report Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 7/17/2023 at 9:26 AM, John Morrison said: Excellent info, a problem solved and the solution passed on to anyone who needs to know, JUST what our forum is all about. Many thanks John. Without this forum I would just have replaced the "O" rings, and found the repair imperfect. So thanks very much to Trier for the information, much appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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