TR4 AJJ Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 Hi all, I saw a lovely 4A for sale recently and as part of the description it said two things that I’d like to know more about. Thin Belt Conversion ? I’m assuming fan belt ? Mine is about 20mm wide so assume it’s not ‘thin’ but my car sounds a bit ‘old’ when idling ... why do a thin belt conversion ? Second was ‘Solid Driveshafts’ which the guy goes on to explain were ‘very expensive but no more clonks.’ I have a noticeable clonk that I assume is from the drive shaft after each gear change when engaging drive. If I’m extra gentle with the clutch I can eliminate most clonking. In the last MOT the guy said I had a little movement on shaft UJ but nothing to worry about but I’ve always assume this is the clonk. So, would a ‘solid driveshaft resolve this ... and how much is ‘expensive’ ? Just a new UJ wouldn’t be too much work or money. Thanks for any ‘education’ Andy (I wasn’t thinking of buying the car, although it did look lovely) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvtrian Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 Hi Andy Solid Driveshafts - on IRS cars these are CV jointed driveshafts rather than the standard UJs. There are a number of good suppliers out there along with the main names, and some enterprising members have adapted CV driveshafts from other mainstream vehicles to fit. Many members swear by this upgrade for a smoother drive and removing clonks inherent with the UJ design. Thin Belt Conversion - refers to the fan belt and is usually done when switching from a dynamo to an alternator, or for many other reasons.............. Best of luck Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 The conversion to thin belt allows a modern fan belt to be used. The old ones are prone to failure and more tricky to swap because there is less room to get the new one onto the bottom pulley. Solid axle presumably refers to CV jointed drive shafts rather than the solid axle as fitted to the TR4. The 4As had universal jointed drive shafts with sliding splines the ujs and splines can clunk when worn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) Hi Andy, 1. the "typ 20" belt is made for pulleys larger than 160 mm in diameter, this is why the shortest one (to get it over 2 pulleys) is 900 mm long. So it is "a little bit stiff" for the much smaller TR pulleys. This is why I use a more flexible, a teethed "Flennor 20X90", that lasts a lifetime. 2. What you descripe in my opinion sounds like slack center caps of whire wheels. The last 2 weeks I cured 1 MGB and 2 TRs from ongoing annoying "clonks" by tightening them with my whire wheel spanner tool. I can recommend from my own experience 300 Nm, 200 Nm is not tight enought. Ciao, Marco Edited September 11, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted September 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Z320 said: Hi Andy, 1. the "typ 20" belt is made for pulleys larger than 160 mm in diameter, this is why the shortest one (to get it over 2 pulleys) is 900 mm long. So it is "a little bit stiff" for the much smaller TR pulleys. This is why I use a more flexible, a teethed "Flennor 20X90", that lasts a lifetime. 2. What you descripe in my opinion sounds like slack center caps of whire wheels. The last 2 weeks I cured 1 MGB and 2 TRs from ongoing annoying "clonks" by tightening them with my whire wheel spanner tool. I can recommend from my own experience 300 Nm, 200 Nm is not tight enought. Ciao, Marco Thanks Marco. I too have the toothed belt but I didn’t realise they’re designed to last ‘a lifetime’. I’m currently on a European Road Trip and have brought a spare one .... I will tighten up my wires tomorrow morning before we leave for Switzerland. I don’t have any means of torque testing them but I do have a big hammer ... Ciao. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 12, 2019 Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 "big hammer" sounds lovely Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 Clonk-clonk? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted September 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 6 hours ago, Z320 said: Clonk-clonk? Still a bit of a clonk but tightening them appeared to improve it. Just drove it over The Alps and it’s still running so hopefully nothing too serious .... although I still have another 1500 miles of road trip left ... including over The Pyrénées mountains ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 hmmmmm, octagonal caps or eared caps? Grease on the tapered part of the wire wheel adaptor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted September 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 35 minutes ago, Z320 said: hmmmmm, octagonal caps or eared caps? Grease on the tapered part of the wire wheel adaptor? Eared and certainly greased on the splines. Aj Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 33 minutes ago, TR4 AJJ said: Eared and certainly greased on the splines. Aj With the same effort you can't get eared caps as tight as octagonal caps. Grease on the splines is absolute correct, but in my opinion not on the tapered part of the adaptor. Ciao, Marco (Should I make some if my wire wheel tools instead of petrol cap locks next winter?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 As the spinners are meant to self tighten why would you not lubricate them on all mating surfaces with either grease or oil? Any friction on two dry surfaces will only result in less torque being applied and self tightening to be reduced. I’ve grease mine since acquiring the car in 1996 and after 70,000 + miles have never had any problems with wire wheels apart from the odd broken spoke. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, ChrisR-4A said: As the spinners are meant to self tighten why would you not lubricate them on all mating surfaces with either grease or oil? Sorry me, I checked this with marks by a permanent marker on wheels and caps on my TR4A and realized they are not self tightening. Everybody who has doubts about this is invited to to this check on his wire wheels, everyone who want's to believe it better does nothing. During my apprenticeship and nogoing until today I have been told never to put oil or grease on any tapered surface. From my work with tapered connections I have not doubt about this is true. Cioa, Marco Edited September 15, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 Hi Marco, you are right that tapers should be clean and dry but only for engineering applications, for example Morse Tapers where the two components are knocked together to be retained and no radial movement occurs. Checking on Wire Wheel suppliers websites such as MWS mention is made of greasing the splines but not specifically the tapers, however they do state the importance of fitting adaptors and spinners to the correct side of the vehicle as they do self tighten. The reason you have not noticed this happening could be because your wheels are already very tight. Some suppliers suggest that wire wheels should be retightened when fitting and after 500miles driving, after which no further movement should occur. Regards Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 (edited) If AJ's TR still clonks while he already tightened the wire wheels in my opinion they are still not tight enough. And they will not get more tight by self tightening. Edited September 15, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 Interesting aside. I was talking to a racer a while back and the knock ons on his Lotus are not handed. They didn’t come undone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanG Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 Worst case could be the diff knocking. Alan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 On 9/14/2019 at 9:11 PM, Z320 said: With the same effort you can't get eared caps as tight as octagonal caps. Why not? You can get or make a wooden spanner for the eared caps, so how is that different from the octagonal ones? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 I belt the living daylights out of mine. I call it patina. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcreweread Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 The late Clive Manvers told me he got lots of plaudits from satisfied customers who complained of clonks for very little cost - his solution - a big lump hammer. His answer to those who wanted pristine spinners - what do you want - clonk free wheels on your wagon and patina-ed spinners or potentially 3 wheels and 3 spinners all pristine! In other words, as Pete says, give it hell! Cheers Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted September 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 Transpires that my clonks are a destroyed UJ on axle and not my wheels .... that I have whacked very hard now .... Thanks for all the advice AJ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Hi AJ, I'm shure you had both and your description was not typical for U-joints (clicks, vibrations). And tight wheels are never a problem. @ all, when you have some time please have a very close look on the splines of your adaptors. Wow do they look like? Photos from 2013 Ciao, Marco Edited September 16, 2019 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted September 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Hi Marco, one side of the UJ has lost its pin bearings completely so the amount of play was unbelievable. It was certainly enough to create the clonk but also the other horrific scraping noise too, where the two metal surfaces were just scraping together. Once back in the UK I will check the wheels though thanks for all the help and advice Edited September 17, 2019 by TR4 AJJ Spelling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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