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TR4 AJJ

Education please

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Hi all,

I saw a lovely 4A for sale recently and as part of the description it said two things that I’d like to know more about. 

Thin Belt Conversion ? I’m assuming fan belt ? Mine is about 20mm wide so assume it’s not ‘thin’ but my car sounds a bit ‘old’ when idling ...  why do a thin belt conversion ?

Second was ‘Solid Driveshafts’ which the guy goes on to explain were ‘very expensive but no more clonks.’ I have a noticeable clonk that I assume is from the drive shaft after each gear change when engaging drive. If I’m extra gentle with the clutch I can eliminate most clonking. In the last MOT the guy said I had a little movement on shaft UJ but nothing to worry about but I’ve always assume this is the clonk. So, would a ‘solid driveshaft resolve this ... and how much is ‘expensive’ ? Just a new UJ wouldn’t be too much work or money. 

Thanks for any ‘education’

Andy 

(I wasn’t thinking of buying the car, although it did look lovely)

  

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Hi Andy
Solid Driveshafts - on IRS cars these are CV jointed driveshafts rather than the standard UJs. There are a number of good suppliers out there along with the main names, and some enterprising members have adapted CV driveshafts from other mainstream vehicles to fit. Many members swear by this upgrade for a smoother drive and removing clonks inherent with the UJ design.
Thin Belt Conversion - refers to the fan belt and is usually done when switching from a dynamo to an alternator, or for many other reasons..............
Best of luck
Ian

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The conversion to thin belt allows a modern fan belt to be used.

The old ones are prone to failure and more tricky to swap because there is less room to get the new one onto the bottom pulley.

Solid axle presumably refers to CV jointed drive shafts rather than the solid axle as fitted to the TR4. The 4As had universal jointed drive shafts with sliding splines the ujs and splines can clunk when worn.

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Hi Andy,

1.

the "typ 20" belt is made for pulleys larger than 160 mm in diameter, this is why the shortest one (to get it over 2 pulleys) is 900 mm long.

So it is "a little bit stiff" for the much smaller TR pulleys. This is why I use a more flexible, a teethed "Flennor 20X90", that lasts a lifetime.

2.

What you descripe in my opinion sounds like slack center caps of whire wheels.

The last 2 weeks I cured 1 MGB and 2 TRs from ongoing annoying "clonks" by tightening them with my whire wheel spanner tool.

I can recommend from my own experience 300 Nm, 200 Nm is not tight enought.

Ciao, Marco

 

Edited by Z320

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2 hours ago, Z320 said:

Hi Andy,

1.

the "typ 20" belt is made for pulleys larger than 160 mm in diameter, this is why the shortest one (to get it over 2 pulleys) is 900 mm long.

So it is "a little bit stiff" for the much smaller TR pulleys. This is why I use a more flexible, a teethed "Flennor 20X90", that lasts a lifetime.

2.

What you descripe in my opinion sounds like slack center caps of whire wheels.

The last 2 weeks I cured 1 MGB and 2 TRs from ongoing annoying "clonks" by tightening them with my whire wheel spanner tool.

I can recommend from my own experience 300 Nm, 200 Nm is not tight enought.

Ciao, Marco

 

Thanks Marco.

I too have the toothed belt but I didn’t realise they’re designed to last ‘a lifetime’. I’m currently on a European Road Trip and have brought a spare one ....

I will tighten up my wires tomorrow morning before we leave for Switzerland. I don’t have any means of torque testing them but I do have a big hammer ... 

Ciao.

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6 hours ago, Z320 said:

Clonk-clonk?

Still a bit of a clonk but tightening them appeared to improve it. 

Just drove it over The Alps and it’s still running so hopefully nothing too serious .... although I still have another 1500 miles of road trip left ... including over The Pyrénées mountains ...  

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hmmmmm,

octagonal caps or eared caps?

Grease on the tapered part of the wire wheel adaptor? 

 

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35 minutes ago, Z320 said:

hmmmmm,

octagonal caps or eared caps?

Grease on the tapered part of the wire wheel adaptor? 

 

Eared and certainly greased on the splines. 

Aj 

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33 minutes ago, TR4 AJJ said:

Eared and certainly greased on the splines. 

Aj 

With the same effort you can't get eared caps as tight as octagonal caps.

Grease on the splines is absolute correct, but in my opinion not on the tapered part of the adaptor.

Ciao, Marco

(Should I make some if my wire wheel tools instead of petrol cap locks next winter?)

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As the spinners are meant to self tighten why would you not lubricate them on all mating surfaces with either grease or oil?

Any friction on two dry surfaces will only result in less torque being applied and self tightening to be reduced. I’ve grease mine since acquiring the car in  1996 and after 70,000 + miles have never had any problems with wire wheels apart from the odd broken spoke.

Chris

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11 hours ago, ChrisR-4A said:

As the spinners are meant to self tighten why would you not lubricate them on all mating surfaces with either grease or oil?

Sorry me,

I checked this with marks by a permanent marker on wheels and caps on my TR4A and realized they are not self tightening.

Everybody who has doubts about this is invited to to this check on his wire wheels, everyone who want's to believe it better does nothing.

During my apprenticeship and nogoing until today I have been told never to put oil or grease on any tapered surface.

From my work with tapered connections I have not doubt about this is true.

Cioa, Marco

Edited by Z320

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Hi Marco, you are right  that tapers should be clean and dry but only for engineering applications, for example Morse Tapers where the two components are knocked together to be retained and no radial movement occurs. Checking on Wire Wheel suppliers websites such as MWS mention is made of greasing the splines but not specifically the tapers, however they do state the importance of fitting adaptors and spinners to the correct side of the vehicle as they do self tighten. The reason you have not noticed this happening could be because your wheels are already very tight. Some suppliers suggest that wire wheels should be retightened when fitting and after 500miles driving, after which no further movement should occur. 

Regards Chris

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If AJ's TR still clonks while he already tightened the wire wheels in my opinion they are still not tight enough.

And they will not get more tight by self tightening.

 

Edited by Z320

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Interesting aside. I was talking to a racer a while back and the knock ons on his Lotus are not handed. They didn’t come undone. 

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