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Nigel Triumph

Speedo Angle Drive

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Hello wise and experienced ones,

The speedo on my TR6 hasn't worked properly for nearly a year. I've tried investigating and sent various components to a reputable reconditioner for testing and refurbishment if required. But the speedo still hasn't worked as it should. For a short while it's able to register 15-20mph but after a mile or two it gives up completely.

Long story short... I've spent an afternoon on diagnosis and the angle drive is slipping. With an electric drill running anticlockwise, the speedo can only just register 15mph through the angle drive but with drill direct on the speedo cable at similar rpm, the reading is about 95mph. Turning the AD anticlockwise by hand against resistance I can feel it slipping. So I'm pretty sure of the diagnosis.

Where would you recommend to get a replacement, as I've heard of aftermarket angle drives that don't last long? Revington offer a replacement at £41 and given their reputation for quality I think that's the best option. Anyone here got experience of Revington's replacement angle drive please?

Thanks in advance,

Nigel

Edited by Nigel Triumph
Another typo!

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Hi Nigel,

i have done away with the angle drive by drilling a hole in the tunnel to allow the cable enter the car under the drivers mat and then into the speedo.  Just back from an 800 mile trip to the IWE and the speedo works perfectly.  Previous new angle drives broke within 100 miles each.  I do think I used a longer speedo cable from a left hand drive car available from usual suppliers.

Joe

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13 minutes ago, joestr6 said:

Hi Nigel,

i have done away with the angle drive by drilling a hole in the tunnel to allow the cable enter the car under the drivers mat and then into the speedo.  Just back from an 800 mile trip to the IWE and the speedo works perfectly.  Previous new angle drives broke within 100 miles each.  I do think I used a longer speedo cable from a left hand drive car available from usual suppliers.

Joe

Joe,

The tail from the speedo cable doesn't seem long enough to engage with the output in the overdrive unit. I've got a spare cable so will look at that tomorrow and see if it's long enough.

Nigel

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27 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Nigel,

 Caerbont automotive  https://www.caigauge.com/  do all the original Smiths stuff

They are not cheap but it is the best.

 

Roger

Thank you Roger, pm on it's way.

Nigel

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Alan T he of wiper motor fame sorts these out as well.

Pm him.

John.

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14 hours ago, Nigel Triumph said:

Hello wise and experienced ones,

The speedo on my TR6 hasn't worked properly for nearly a year. I've tried investigating and sent various components to a reputable reconditioner for testing and refurbishment if required. But the speedo still hasn't worked as it should. For a short while it's able to register 15-20mph but after a mile or two it gives up completely.

Long story short... I've spent an afternoon on diagnosis and the angle drive is slipping. With an electric drill running anticlockwise, the speedo can only just register 15mph through the angle drive but with drill direct on the speedo cable at similar rpm, the reading is about 95mph. Turning the AD anticlockwise by hand against resistance I can feel it slipping. So I'm pretty sure of the diagnosis.

Where would you recommend to get a replacement, as I've heard of aftermarket angle drives that don't last long? Revington offer a replacement at £41 and given their reputation for quality I think that's the best option. Anyone here got experience of Revington's replacement angle drive please?

Thanks in advance,

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

I have had two of the repro angle drives both developed the same problem the cable turned in the part that goes into the gearbox.I contacted Alan T but not offering a repair service , maybe in the future. I had to resort to  o ther sorts of "cures" such as soldering (not very good at that) , epoxy resin but  after about 20 30 kms  the cable worked loose. In the end a mate filled up where the cable goes into the cog with solder. That seemed to work though early days, the big test will be when I drive to Pamplona for the European meeting on the 20th September.

Give it a try.

Kind Regards,

Dave from a hot sunny Spain

image.png

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Thank you for your replies.

As Alan isn't (yet) offering a repair service, I need to purchase a replacement. Had a chat with Chris Witor this morning and he is offering an aftermarket angle drive for a remarkable £25+VAT:

https://www.chriswitor.com/proddetail.php?prod=120694RM

He tells me this is not the same aftermarket version that some big suppliers have sold and which is known to have a short life. He has been selling this for about 6 months and so far there haven't been any problems. Early days perhaps but I've decided to try it.

Dave, thank you for the tip about a soldered repair. I will try that on my old A/D and see if it helps.

Nigel

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Whilst browsing the traders’ stalls at Stratford, one of them was selling an angle drive that was cubed shape. Can’t remember which trader though.

Graham

Edited by Grahamgl

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I've fitted the Chris Witor angle drive and put some miles on it this weekend. Working well after testing across a fair part of the speedo's range, though it's still early days.

Nigel

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Just got back from a long drive and for the 4th time the angle drive failed loud and clear probably this time was the new cable :(

I think i have to review the cable routing before any atempt.

it's a lefthand drive with A type overdrive, are there some pictures or schemes for the correct routing?

thankyou

 

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7 hours ago, tr6tuga said:

Just got back from a long drive and for the 4th time the angle drive failed loud and clear probably this time was the new cable :(

I think i have to review the cable routing before any atempt.

it's a lefthand drive with A type overdrive, are there some pictures or schemes for the correct routing?

thankyou

 

Hi,

The 69 inch cable is what you need If you can get an extra inch one probably better.. I route it from the angle drive along the lip of the floor, curve it over the  gearbox bell housing through the hole/grommet in the cover then up to the speedo. If it is a repro angle drive you may find that the cable is turning in the part that goes to the gearbox. See my post above. I have lost count how many times I have had the angle drive on and off,  I have got it to a fine art now taking the seat out, pulling the carpet out and removing the cover plate. 10 minutes.

I hope this helps.

Kind Regards,

Dave from a hot sunny Spain

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On 9/6/2019 at 11:23 AM, Grahamgl said:

Whilst browsing the traders’ stalls at Stratford, one of them was selling an angle drive that was cubed shape. Can’t remember which trader though.

Graham

Hi Graham,

that may be the speedograph Richfield AD.

 

Roger

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11 hours ago, dave-lewis said:

Hi,

The 69 inch cable is what you need If you can get an extra inch one probably better.. I route it from the angle drive along the lip of the floor, curve it over the  gearbox bell housing through the hole/grommet in the cover then up to the speedo. If it is a repro angle drive you may find that the cable is turning in the part that goes to the gearbox. See my post above. I have lost count how many times I have had the angle drive on and off,  I have got it to a fine art now taking the seat out, pulling the carpet out and removing the cover plate. 10 minutes.

I hope this helps.

Kind Regards,

Dave from a hot sunny Spain

Thankyou Dave I ll have a try,  last time I managed to routing the cable in a similar way but not throught the hole/gromet  on the cover where the bulet connection for f the A type Overdrive hole is :) and yes I now have a quick access to the angle drive after so many issues.

Talking about routing, can you send a photo of accelarator cable seing with a open bonnet, all the pictures are for right hand drive and 

Let you know

José 

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12 hours ago, tr6tuga said:

 

Talking about routing, can you send a photo of accelarator cable seing with a open bonnet, all the pictures are for right hand drive and 

Let you know

José 

This may help.

Stuart.

 

DSC02783.JPG

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Thank you Stuart, it helps. The gromet place and the way of the bolden cable is just under the steering couple and rub it, is this a normal thing? 

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On 9/9/2019 at 8:59 PM, tr6tuga said:

Thankyou Dave I ll have a try,  last time I managed to routing the cable in a similar way but not throught the hole/gromet  on the cover where the bulet connection for f the A type Overdrive hole is :) and yes I now have a quick access to the angle drive after so many issues.

Talking about routing, can you send a photo of accelarator cable seing with a open bonnet, all the pictures are for right hand drive and 

Let you know

José 

Just a quick update, another #&, /%%angle drive just snapped 

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10 hours ago, tr6tuga said:

Just a quick update, another #&, /%%angle drive just snapped 

Hi Jose,

Sorry to hear that.  After how many kms did it break? Was it another repro  or a  soldered repaired one like mine?

As I am leaving for Pamplona, probably approx 1800 kms round trip next week , I am hoping that my soldered angle drive will last.Otherwise it is back to the drawing board, again. We shall see!

Kind Regards,

Dave from a cooler rainy Spain

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I don't have the link but Revington have an electronic solution,expensive, but does away with the ball ache of the dog drive

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Hi Nigel, I replaced the short piece of cable between angle drive and gearbox with a piece of keyway steel. I found some oversize about 4mm square and ground it down by hand to be a tight fit in the angle drive and just slide into the gearbox. This was over 10 years and 30,000 miles ago and it's still working fine. Most tool/engineers suppliers sell keyway steel in about 30cm lengths. 

Chris 

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1 hour ago, ChrisR-4A said:

Hi Nigel, I replaced the short piece of cable between angle drive and gearbox with a piece of keyway steel. I found some oversize about 4mm square and ground it down by hand to be a tight fit in the angle drive and just slide into the gearbox. This was over 10 years and 30,000 miles ago and it's still working fine. Most tool/engineers suppliers sell keyway steel in about 30cm lengths. 

Chris 

Thank you Chris, that's a good tip. If my new A/D fails, I will try a short length of keyway steel.

Nigel

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Hi Chris/Nigel,

AlanT also uses Key steel to replace the spiral cable.

I have concerns about the whole area of the angle drive -

Why do some have to have the copper washer and some don;t ??? - I am sure the originals did not have the washer.

If the speedo seizes up then the original short section of spiral cable will break - there is no way the key steel will break so what will give. !!!

Could the short cable be acting like a mechanical  fuse.

When installing a new AD is the free movement of the AD checked ?  I have found 'new' repro AD's with badly interlocking bevel gears, input pinion bobbing up and down.

In 20+ years I have fitted one AD back in pre-1998 - perhaps I was lucky in getting the one that worked..

Could a stick speedo or bad cable route be part of the problem???

 

Roger 

 

Edited by RogerH

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13 hours ago, tr6tuga said:

Thank you Stuart, it helps. The gromet place and the way of the bolden cable is just under the steering couple and rub it, is this a normal thing? 

No it should come up over the steering column. Heres another view of a different solution.

Stuart.

 

Triumph-TR5-1967-1969-by-eric.jpg

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1 hour ago, RogerH said:

Hi Chris/Nigel,

AlanT also uses Key steel to replace the spiral cable.

I have concerns about the whole area of the angle drive -

Why do some have to have the copper washer and some don;t ??? - I am sure the originals did not have the washer.

If the speedo seizes up then the original short section of spiral cable will break - there is no way the key steel will break so what will give. !!!

Could the short cable be acting like a mechanical  fuse.

When installing a new AD is the free movement of the AD checked ?  I have found 'new' repro AD's with badly interlocking bevel gears, input pinion bobbing up and down.

In 20+ years I have fitted one AD back in pre-1998 - perhaps I was lucky in getting the one that worked..

Could a stick speedo or bad cable route be part of the problem???

 

Roger 

 

Hi Roger/Nigel, I would expect if the speedo ceases up like my original one did, long before the angle drive problem that either top or bottom end of the actual speedo cable would slip or break being the weakest link.

I imagine that triumph used a bit of cable to join angle drive to gearbox because they had loads of it around and it was cheap. Like a lot of marginally engineered items it was probably fine when everything was new including the drive inside the gearbox to keep it running true with no wobble. 

Chris

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Hi Roger,

I think the copper washer is inteded as a seal to reduce leaking GB oil.

The square end needs to have a bit of axial clearance too and consider the axial movement of the small GB output shaft that drives the square thing. If there is no axial clearance while driving, the GB will apply a force on the AD (and vise versa).

Waldi

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