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TR4 front hub adaptor removal issue


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To replace the front suspension wishbone bushes I need to dismantle the whole suspension. Right at the start I hit a major snag: the four bolts that attach the hub adaptor (this is for wire wheels) had been cut with an angle grinder right where the bolts sit, therefor damaging the thread of the  bolts and making it currently impossible to remove the bolts with a socket wrench. Obviously this had been done before the car was mine.

What would be your advice on how to best approach this issue. I have not yet tried pneumatic equipement, with some sort of hammering effect (I had tried this with manual hammering the socket wrench arm, but had no succes). Last resort I think would be to cut the nuts from the bolts, thereby damaging the bolts and get a replacement set from Moss or Rimmer Brothers or whatever?

 

 

IMG_20190728_165519.jpg

IMG_20190728_165508.jpg

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Hi Erik,

that shouldn't be a problem. The deformed stud thread should easily allow the nut to undo.

If you can spare it, grind the edge of the socket (conical) so that the socket fits as deep as possible.  They are Right Hand threads.

How are you locking the disc to stop it rotating.?

I have a crafty home made spanner

Otherwise jam the brakes on.

 

Roger

P1030127a.jpg

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1 minute ago, RogerH said:

Hi Erik,

that shouldn't be a problem. The deformed stud thread should easily allow the nut to undo.

If you can spare it, grind the edge of the socket (conical) so that the socket fits as deep as possible.  They are Right Hand threads.

How are you locking the disc to stop it rotating.?

I have a crafty home made spanner

Otherwise jam the brakes on.

 

Roger

 

I have my neighbour very kindly push the brake pedal :).

Right hand thread?? You mean I need to turn clockwise to unlock??

You mean that when triying to unlock that the bolt will reset the deformed thread?

 

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Suggest you get a long 1/2 inch drive breaker bar wrench. These are anything between 600 and 900 mm long (mine is 600mm). Make sure the socket fits well as Roger has said. The extra leverage should undo the nuts. If they don't move then apply some heat with a blow lamp but I would think they should come off ok without that need.

I like your spanner Roger.

Keith

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The issue I may have too is that the wrench I use is 18mm, while the 17mm does not fit, yet there is a bit of play with the 18mm. Is this bolt imperial measure? What size should I get?

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8 minutes ago, keith1948 said:

Suggest you get a long 1/2 inch drive breaker bar wrench. These are anything between 600 and 900 mm long (mine is 600mm). Make sure the socket fits well as Roger has said. The extra leverage should undo the nuts. If they don't move then apply some heat with a blow lamp but I would think they should come off ok without that need.

I like your spanner Roger.

Keith

What is a "drive breaker bar wrench"?

 

EDIT: sorry I think I found it: a wrench with a very long arm?

Edited by earckens
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Hi

I would suggest using a six sided socket so it grips the flat of the nut rather than the points of the nut as seems to have been done before with a 12point socket. The nuts are quite slim so with most sockets having a chamfer you will loose grip. To overcome this I would grind off the leading edge of the socket to ensure the socket has maximum surface contact. At this point you can give it some welly with whatever lever, hammer of pneumatic tool you have at hand. Holding the hub is key. With the stud being ground off so close to the face of the nut I would expect this to offer only limited resistance. I often cut threaded bar with a nut fitted, so the nut reshapes the thread on removal.

If you have a nice matched set of sockets, Perhaps buying an extra socket of the correct size may be worth while to protect the look of your set from having an odd ground down one.

In the time it has taken to type this I see there have been a few other replies, so sorry if this is just a repeat of what has already been said.

Best of luck 

Steve

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2 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Erik,

11/16" sits between 17mm and 18mm

Roger and StevecTR4, ok that means I better order a 6-sided 11/16" socket rather than further damaging the sides of these bolts. And a drive breaker bar wrench-arm. Thanks!

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Here is a link to what a drive breaker bar looks like

https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-parts/car-body-parts-and-car-exhaust/exhausts/heat-exchanger/?538773840&0& &type=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxqyI8vnX4wIVxLTtCh3Lew2nEAQYAyABEgLWlvD_BwE

It is basically a 1/2 inch drive on the end of a long arm. You could always slide a long tube over the end of your wrench arm. Don't do this with a ratchet wrench or you will likely break it.

All TR nuts are imperial (AF) as far as I know. You might be lucky if you slide a thin strip of metal inside your 18mm socket to take up the slack. Not ideal but have used this approach before when desperate.

Keith

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58 minutes ago, StevecTR4 said:

(...)

To overcome this I would grind off the leading edge of the socket to ensure the socket has maximum surface contact. (...)

I am not sure I understand: do you mean to grind of the interior of the socket? How?

EDIT: oh ok, grind of the "horizontal" surface, right B)

Edited by earckens
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Hi Eric,

please spend the money and buy imperial spanners and nuts.

All my nuts are hexagon, the metric nuts from "Proxxon" also make a gread job on imperial heads, I also use "metrinch" / "gear lock (BGS)" in 1 mm steps.

Much success with the coil spring compressor.

Ciao, Marco

 

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It will probably take a good air wrench together with a 6 sided "impact" socket to remove them without damage. I would drive down to your nearest Tyre fitters and let them loosen the nuts with their biggest air impact wrench. Then tighten them yourself just enough so you can drive home. 

Chris 

 

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1 minute ago, Z320 said:

Hi Eric,

please spend the money and buy imperial spanners and nuts.

All my nuts are hexagon, the metric nuts from "Proxxon" also make a gread job on imperial heads, I also use "metrinch" / "gear lock (BGS)" in 1 mm steps.

Much success with the coil spring compressor.

Ciao, Marco

 

Hi Marco, good idea. Proxon is a manufacturer, not a dealer; any idea where their equipment might be bought online?

And indeed I will be using your coil spring compressor :)

 

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Just now, earckens said:

And indeed I will be using your coil spring compressor :)

 

Hi Eric,

I remember you very well because of your profile photo.

Proxxon I get at Germany at some DIY markets, or at eBay.

But best is you buy a set of hex imperial nuts, for example via eBay  from BGS, lovely quality for the price.

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8 minutes ago, ChrisR-4A said:

It will probably take a good air wrench together with a 6 sided "impact" socket to remove them without damage. I would drive down to your nearest Tyre fitters and let them loosen the nuts with their biggest air impact wrench. Then tighten them yourself just enough so you can drive home. 

Chris 

 

Good idea, but I do not know if I would trust a French tyre fitter with a 18mm socket (that is where we are with our TR4 ) :blink:

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I found BGS hexagon keyset, imperial at a dutch online retailer, 10x 1/2" from 13/16" to 3/4" for €18, shipping to France €24 but it's worth it to me.

https://www.autogereedschap.com/a-28093066/inch-doppendozen-en-sets/bgs-1-2-doppenset-in-inch-10-delig/

Edited by earckens
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Or, with an angle grinder shave all the nuts to the next metric size, or approaching... 4 or 8 nuts at a time skewered on a long bolt held in a vise.

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I found a metric size that had to be firmly tapped on
to ensure no sliggage. Can't remember the size but
surely the 18mm size referred to by earchens.
A special flat-sided socket would be better if you are
really having trouble.

G-clamp the disc to the dust shield, with some
packing held it in place did the trick for me.

The nuts are high tensile, much better quality material
than the normal hub nuts, but you don't have the same
depth to work with.

AlanR

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/28/2019 at 6:32 PM, Z320 said:

Hi Eric,

please spend the money and buy imperial spanners and nuts.

All my nuts are hexagon, the metric nuts from "Proxxon" also make a gread job on imperial heads, I also use "metrinch" / "gear lock (BGS)" in 1 mm steps.

Much success with the coil spring compressor.

Ciao, Marco

 

Hi Marco, I wanted to send you a private message but I don't know how to: I just got to fit the coil compressor but the sizes on the bottom plate don't fit. In length the holes are fine but in width the plate's holes are too far apart: see picture.

Can you please arrange for the fitting plate to be sent, or send me a email? Thank you so much,

Erik

 

IMG_20190814_131658.jpg

Edited by earckens
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