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niklas

TR2 steel wheel refurbishment

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Dear TR enthousiasts,

The TR2's of Edwin Tiben and me are equiped with the original steel rims. In trying to improve the original wheels, as they are bent and out of alignment after a hard and life we have send them for improvement at a Dutch -specialist-. This specialist has replaced the outer rim with new material cut from newly produced VW Beetle rims. He welded the TR wheel centers in these Beetle outer rims (not rivited as per original). This however has not led to a positive result. The wheels are out of shape.

We therefore are very interested in any other sollutions you may have ome up with in improving / refurbshing the original steel wheels of TR2/3/4's. Please share your advice. Thanks!

Niklas & Edwin

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Interesting question, Niklas, I too much prefer my Tr on its original steel wheels, and have over the years acquired several wheels,

all of which need some degree of refurbishment/straightening. I have never yet found an answer, which in reality must be quite straightforward.  Flange is really not a problem I think, but the relationship between wheel centre, where the bolt holes are, to the outer rim is. my main issue.

Anyone out there had any success with any of this?

 

John.

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Given the importance of road wheels to safety and the advanced age of those being 'repaired' is it not time that the SDF looked into having steel wheels re-manufactured for those who do not want to change to wires, and in the widths we need for the standard narrow tyres? (i.e. nothing wider than 4.5inch).  If new ones could be made with the double-hump rims it would also mean tyres could be used tubeless as intended.

 

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47 minutes ago, RobH said:

Given the importance of road wheels to safety and the advanced age of those being 'repaired' is it not time that the SDF looked into having steel wheels re-manufactured for those who do not want to change to wires, and in the widths we need for the standard narrow tyres? (i.e. nothing wider than 4.5inch).  If new ones could be made with the double-hump rims it would also mean tyres could be used tubeless as intended.

 

Hi Rob,

wheels are on our list of things to progress - the SDF have already made a number of enquiries, unfortunately, having scanned the wheel and costed the tooling, Weller (who make the TR6 wheel), were not willing to risk any investment, even with SDF support.
All is not dead however, there are other avenues we are following, but they are in the suppliers queues of stuff to get done.
It's not a show stopper, keeping cars off the road, as has been said, alloys and wires are available to keep everyone safe.

Just to keep everyone up to date, along with the TRR Wedge team, we are starting to work with the TRDC to use their TR7 expertise as some of their parts are becoming critical, and that includes some panel work.

While I'm at it, the 4 pot crank project is just about finished, MOSS are working out pricing and availability times, the double thermostat housing for early cars is almost finished, the TR2 rear lamp bezels and gaskets are almost ready, and we have a number of other active projects keeping us busy.

Unfortunately the TR Register now see us as a separate entity and not an integral part of the club, so we are in the process of setting ourselves up as such.

Ian

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.

A couple of days ago I was black-smithing the wheels off an early-1950's Sunbeam S7 motorcycle.  Although these are short spoked 4.00x16" wheels the rims are heavy pressed steel items.  One of the wheels I am using had a notable buckle, perhaps 8 - 10mm out of shape.  I repeatedly heated that section of the rim and panel-beat it back into shape.  By heating locally (using a high temperature blowtorch with mapp gas) I could beat out one crease at a time. ie. only the red hot metal responded to the hammer, and not the surrounding colder metal. 

I accept it is not perfect, but I know from experience that the 5" balloon tyres fitted to these bikes are very accommodating to any such slight inaccuracies.  Admittedly these 500cc Sunbeams top out at 80mph, but I find that wheel-balance and also the trueness of the brake hub is much more influential to the ride. 

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This is wheel in question.. You can spot the remaining dent by its reflection (at the 10 o'clock position in this photo).  I was unable to address this further for two simple reasons. The first being that someone else had tried to knock this dent out before and locally dented it on the outer rim, and secondly because I have only one dolly and to correct this would need a tight bar type ..to get into that curve.  I accepted this because at that position on the rim the damage is more apparent on the outside face (cosmetic) than it is to where the rim of the tyre actually sits on the rim.  As this is the worst rim, I will use it for the back wheel, rather than for steering.

Even though I am a self-taught amateur, the task is not so difficult when heat is used in a focused manner before carefully beating.  Of course the metal can subsequently be stress relieved through a broader spread of heat.  These rims are for road use rather than for show, so I hand (brush) painted them with Hammerite gloss.  Given the choice of giving straightening a try or scrapping the wheel, I chose the former.  The tyres will be fitted on Tuesday, after this paint has baked in the summer heat for a few days.  

I might add that the total rear plunger suspension travel on this bike is less than two-inches. And the front suspension on this particular 1948 bike has no dampers, so they are a little more sensitive to wheels and tyres than the later Sunbeam motorcycles.   

.

Edited by Bfg

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Thanks Ian - good to know that. 

Unfortunately alloys don't seem to be readily available narrower than 5.5 inches which are too wide for 155 or 165 tyres.

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Hello Niclas,

You say that you sent them to a wheel “Specialist”, but the result was not perfect.

The idea of using 15 inch VW rims seems feasible, but I would have expected a “Specialist” to have done a similar reconstruction before, and known it would work.

I don’t know the “Terms and conditions” you were given before the work was carried out, but if they said, “We will try but it may not work”, then, OK , it was a gamble.

 

If they said, “Sure, of course we can do it”, I hope that they did not charge you for the work. The older I get, the more “Specialists” I meet that don’t have a bl**dy clue.

(I’m not just talking about car “Specialists” I’m talking about people like “Accountants” and “Solicitors”…. Please don’t get me going…)

 

Charlie.

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13 hours ago, Charlie D said:

If they said, “Sure, of course we can do it”, I hope that they did not charge you for the work.

The older I get, the more “Specialists” I meet that don’t have a bl**dy clue.

(I’m not just talking about car “Specialists” I’m talking about people like “Accountants” and “Solicitors”…. Please don’t get me going…)

seconded.. but I do find motor industry specialists are way ahead of the field nowadays.  Most probably because nearly all are self-taught in their field of expertise, and similarly self-taught in the ways of business and moral conduct.

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Niklas and Edwin,

I fear you are the unlucky victims of amateurs.

A professional outfit would have dismantled the rims i.e drilled out the rivets,

trued up the centres, trued the rims or replaced them where necessary and

welded them back together on a jig.It's not a science as you know.The automotive

industry has been doing it for over 100 years.

There will be someone out there that CAN do the job properly, (I don't know of anyone

offhand) but personally the route I would take would be to buy up all the cheap old second

hand TR rims that you see for sale for peanuts, and select the best.Even a 25% success rate

will be a cheaper option than a 'specialist'.

Good luck

Roger M-E

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5 minutes ago, roger murray-evans said:

Niklas and Edwin,

I fear you are the unlucky victims of amateurs.

A professional outfit would have dismantled the rims i.e drilled out the rivets,

trued up the centres, trued the rims or replaced them where necessary and

welded them back together on a jig.It's not a science as you know.The automotive

industry has been doing it for over 100 years.

There will be someone out there that CAN do the job properly, (I don't know of anyone

offhand) but personally the route I would take would be to buy up all the cheap old second

hand TR rims that you see for sale for peanuts, and select the best.Even a 25% success rate

will be a cheaper option than a 'specialist'.

Good luck

Roger M-E

+1

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Hi nikals I have a set of 4 wheels  they need  refurbishment but I think they look okay wood  benefit from a sandblast and repaint I think the rims are off a  TR2/3  if their of interest  Pm me  you’ll have  to arrange collection or by Currier if you get over to  England in the near future I’m happy to hang onto it for you 

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507F803C-5043-435D-B349-40D561D8E1AA.jpeg

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Hello,

Just be aware that something that I, and other people, have mentioned before is that all “Early” TR steel wheels are not all the same.

They may look the same, at first glance, but there is a ½ inch offset difference between some wheels.

I’ve looked at the forum archives about this and never really come up with a date/reason for the change.

 

All I know is that I once bought a set of four second hand steel wheels and one of them had a different offset.

 

In my case it was really annoying because I used the outer part of the wheel as a reference to get the body centralized on the chassis.

Fitted it all up. Took all the wheels off and put them back in a different order and the whole bl**dy thing was sque-wif .

 

If you buy second hand wheels just hold a bit of 2x2 (or 50 x 50 as you are in Holland) wood across the outer part of the rim and then measure down to the bit where the nuts fit. Make sure that anything you get has the same measurement as your original wheels.

 

Charlie

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