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Tr3a Master cylinder reservoir.

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I want to check the nuts on the unions are tight but I need narrow sockets to suit the internal diameter of the clutch section.

What size socket is needed.?

Rod

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Hi Rod.....having just been through this escapade ....with loose/leaking fittings on a new tin can, 17mm seams to be the tool. 

You will need to remove the clutch fitting to tighten the brake fitting.....this requires a thin walled long socket as you have discovered.

Iain

Edited by iain
More detail added

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My shiny new tin can leaked as well. The unions at the bottom are sealed with rubber gaskets which fail. If you are using a new reservoir I suggest you dismantle both outlets and replace the rubber washers with a suitable brake fluid proof sealant. 

Rgds Ian

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2 hours ago, Ian Vincent said:

My shiny new tin can leaked as well. The unions at the bottom are sealed with rubber gaskets which fail. If you are using a new reservoir I suggest you dismantle both outlets and replace the rubber washers with a suitable brake fluid proof sealant. 

Rgds Ian

.if they are leaking from the lower unions........chuck them back at the supplier, unless he is going to pay for your repaint.

Can be the old ‘leakage out the cap’ issue that Moss have resolved with a rubber insert for the filler neck. It works fine.

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/seal-filler-cap-splashproof-582-505.html?assoc=563402

Peter W

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Hi Peter

wasn't the cap its a new fangled one, definitely the unions on the base.Returned to the supplier awaiting some recompense

 

Iain

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At the NEC a few years ago, I recall the owner of a TR3 showing me a brand new reservoir which he had just purchased at the autojumble.  When I removed the cap, I saw that there was no inner can - in other words, both clutch and brake shared the same reservoir.  If a leak were to develop in the clutch hydraulics so as to drain the fluid, the brakes would also have run out of fluid.  Very nasty! 

The reservoir went straight back for a refund, but one wonders how many of this "reservoir" might have been sold to unsuspecting owners.

Ian Cornish

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From previous owner, cleaned polished and painted by me. It will be a few years before I know if fluid still squirts out but I don’t think it will. And it looks awfully cool to me. Paul

1239F731-57EB-41E4-8211-21CEF512E163.jpeg

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What’s the copper squirly copper pipe all about T Rusty? 

And.... you better be careful if the fluid does squirt out..... It will go all over that immaculate carpet and or/ the black cat!

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That will be very close to your bonnet when fitted.

John.

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11 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

.if they are leaking from the lower unions........chuck them back at the supplier, unless he is going to pay for your repaint.

Can be the old ‘leakage out the cap’ issue that Moss have resolved with a rubber insert for the filler neck. It works fine.

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/seal-filler-cap-splashproof-582-505.html?assoc=563402

Peter W

The leakage was definitely from the unions  at the base but unfortunately the reservoir had been installed for some time so there wasn’t an opportunity to return it to the supplier (Moss).  Yes, it did considerable damage to my paintwork but at least after I had sealed it properly, I had more confidence in it. 

Rgds Ian

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Ok you have all created another problem for me which may be simpler but more difficult to sort out.

The initial issue was fluid loss which I attributed to work on the brakes causing back pressure to push fluid out the can top. I then notice a less than effective clutch while brakes were good an solid pedal.

It now appears as if leaking from the clutch fitting has extended to allow fluid from brake master cylinder to pass into the clutch reservoir causing a slight loss in fluid from the main tank. or both seals are now leaking.

Brakes are fine but clutch is screwed.

Question 1 what size and shape of socket is required to remove internal nut from the clutch tube.?

Question 2 What seals the clutch tube to the reservoir.?

Question 3 What seals the master cylinder to pipe union.?

Question 4 Where can you get seals that are suitable for silicone fluid. i.e what did you use?

Rod

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As far as I can remember the only way fluid can migrate from clutch reservoir to brake (or vice versa) is if the internal cylindrical separator has a leak in it.

it's construction is such that there is a soldered seam running up from the base to the top. In my case this seam had opened up, & I had to remove both base unions, remove the internal cylinder, & re-solder it. Re-assembly was tricky, but not impossible, I don't recall the size of socket needed unfortunately.

Hope this is of some help.

Bob.

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Hi Rod,

SBF is quite inert and thus any seal material should survive quite well.

 

Roger

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Hi Rod,

To answer as many of your questions as I can, the original reservoir was sealed at the base by an aluminium washer on each union.  The nuts on those unions were torqued very tight and the soft aluminium washer was thus marginally deformed to create a seal.  Unfortunately my reservoir had developed a pin hole in the side and was scrap.  The clutch tube was sealed to it's union with a similar arrangement.

The new reservoir has replaced the pair of aluminium washers with steel cup washers retaining a rubber seal behind them.  The rubber seals on my car had gone soft and allowed brake fluid to leak.  Unfortunately this leak started when the car was stored in a friends garage for a couple of months while we moved house and by the time I got to it brake fluid (DOT4) had been seeping from the bottom of the reservoir onto the paintwork and running down the inner wing.  Nice!

Fortunately I had kept the old master cylinder and was able to rescue the aluminium washers from the previous unions and re-use them on the new reservoir and as a belt and braces approach I reinforced the join with some sealant.  The stuff I used was called Seal All (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eclectic-Seal-All-Gas-Oil-Resistant-Adhesive/dp/B001U7EJVS/ref=asc_df_B001U7EJVS/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310744208542&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5441602127959629331&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006734&hvtargid=pla-762224315757&psc=1).  It's a contact adhesive and sealant so it's quite tricky to use but it seems to have worked for the last couple of years.

I can't be certain about the socket size to undo the unions but I think it was 17mm on the new reservoir; presumably the original was 5/8" or 11/16".

Hope this helps.

Rgds Ian

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On my 3A, brakes all re-done with new stuff, brake fluid squirts out the pin hole on top of the reservoir. Not much, just enough to take the paint off part of the lid. On the one in the picture, from my TR3, PO must have had the same problem. He soldered the curly copper tube over the hole and I’m assuming that would prevent the little squirt from ruining the paint. Good point about clearing the bonnet. It does with about an inch to spare.

On the TR3, It’s a long way off but I’m switching to dot5 when the time comes. So the curly copper tube will just be a conversation piece. By then I’ll have thought up a good lie or two about it too. Current status pics

AFE63ED3-627F-4F2E-9A43-5500EC92F6D4.jpeg

005B6867-4917-45B6-B927-E1934A07A314.jpeg

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I have dismantled an original I had in the stores and found that on the underside there is a hex sided copper washer and the other is a washer with a rubber insert in the middle. It was very tight but worth splitting it anyway.

I intend to use Hylomar Red as a sealant which will be ok to use as it is enert and oil, antifreeze, etc safe.

The new one if it has the same set up can only have either leaked or migrate due to the tube seal failing as there is no pressure at this point.

I will refurbish the original and swap over once repainted and decaled.

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Rod,

You asked:

"Question 1 what size and shape of socket is required to remove internal nut from the clutch tube.?"

Not sure of the size but the only spanner I could find that worked (perfectly) was a "Box spanner"

Worth getting a set as they are quite cheap and once you have them you will wonder how you ever lived without one.

 

Charlie

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On 7/1/2019 at 8:10 PM, iain said:

Hi Rod.....having just been through this escapade ....with loose/leaking fittings on a new tin can, 17mm seams to be the tool. 

You will need to remove the clutch fitting to tighten the brake fitting.....this requires a thin walled long socket as you have discovered.

Iain

Size as in previous post...yes 17mm

Iain

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