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harlequin

what is this gearbox from?

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I picked up a gearbox from a friend who was having a clear out, and at first glance it has come fron a TR4 or TR4A with the casing stamped CT. Now the odd thing is the clutch operating arm is on the offside and and has a spring loaded return plus an extra bit that would suggest cable or maybe rod operating system. So not TR!

My pal thinks maybe Vanguard but is not sure, has anyone got any ideas?  TVR? Daimler 250?

George

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Hi George,

photo of the anomolies would be a help,

plus full number, I'll check stuff tonight, ben away.

John.

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I could (& often am !) wrong, but is it not possible to insetr the clutch operating rod in from the other end ?

If so maybe the box was last used on a non TR ?

Bob.

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John

The full number is CT35978 and as you can see from the photo it looks as if its factory made rather than made in a shed.

Bob may be Atlas van?

George

20190616_095303.jpg

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George 

As already stated,  and as far as I am aware, CT prefixes were for TR4 and TR4A gearboxes

From your photo, it looks like it is a thick flange gearbox which applied to all 4As and I believe some later TR4s, although I don't know the changeover numbers. See photos below of a TR4 and a 4A gearbox side by side which clearly shows the difference - the extra thickness in the flange is added to the rear of the existing flange so the overall length of the unit remains the same.

TR4s had a squarish output flange on the back where as 4As had a round one, but beware because not all round ones are the same , the bolt pattern being slightly different on the saloons and can easily catch you out when you have fitted the gearbox and it won't mate with the propshaft! 

So it would appear this is probably a 1964/65 TR gearbox which looks to have been modified for a different application - there were some vehicles which had the operating arms on the other side to TRs ( such as Stags) and there were some strange shaped arms on the TR side such as Dolomite Sprints, so it wouldn't be that unusual to find something like your arrangement, but I don't recognise it, I'm afraid.

However no obvious reason why you cant swap the arm for a TR one, and away you go, hopefully!

Cheers

Rich

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Thanks Rich

As you say I am sure it will fit into a TR, it was only when I started to take it to bits that I realised it was a bit of an odd one and I was stumped to think what it may have come from, But then after 55 or so years who knows what has been going on

I.was pleased to pick it up as my TR3A has the thin flange, 3 scyncro box in it and I constantly embarrassing my self by selecting 1st before coming to a complete stop.

George

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Thanks for the heads up James

I had the same problem when I put the saloon overdrive box into my non overdrive TR6, along with the issue that Rich mentioned about the hole spacing in the output flange. It will be a job for keeping me out of trouble through next winter

George

 

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I sent this query to Ian Gibson, who has just replied thus to me:

Well, the CT gearbox number certainly indicates that it is an all synchro 4-speed gearbox ex-TR4 etc

The Vanguard Phase 1, the Triumph Roadster 2000, and the Triumph Renown all had 3-speed column change gearboxes with no hydraulics for the clutch (all rod operated).

However, as the gearbox casing of the 3-speed box and all the four speed (whether TR2/3/3A or TR4 onwards) have essentially the same dimensions and rear mounting, it is relatively straight forward to convert any of the 3-speed cars with rod operated clutch to a 4-speed floor change.  Of course to do a good job required a lot of tin bashing to accommodate the remote control unit and provide a gaitered hole for the gear lever. 

However, it would probably be considered easier to simply put the complete clutch operating shaft from the 3-speed gearbox into the TR4 bellhousing and reconnect the rod linkage since the shaft and clutch fork is interchangeable with the later hydraulically operated one.

So, yes, it sounds as if it was a later all synchro 4-speed gearbox fitted into a Phase 1 Vanguard, a Roadster 2000 or a Renown and the rod operated clutch mechanism was retained!  Not so good f you were towing a caravan with your old car 'cos all the gearing would be higher (identical top gear--of course!!) with no crawler bottom gear!!

That would be my guess --- sight unseen

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Now that I think is the answer.

My friend said he got the box from a chap who had raced a Vanguard but I remember them as having column change and I think mechanical operated overdrive so had dismissed the Vanguard as the culprit. Thanks Ian C and well done Ian G

George

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Ian Gibson has owned almost every sort of 4-pot TR, Vanguards, Fergies and other related machinery, was my prime collaborator when I was Tech Ed in the 1970s/1980s, still has a huge amount of spares, and - for obvious reasons - is one of the members of the committee of the TR Spares Development Fund (SDF). 

IanG doesn't use the Forum, so I'll send George's note to him. As the SDF's small, 5-man, committee has three Ians [Gibson, Brown & Cornish] and two Gibsons [Ian & Dave], we tag our names with the first letter of our surnames.

Ian Cornish

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For what it's worth, from my stewed ant days in Aberdeen in the late sixties, I recall a fearsome Triumph Renown fitted with a TR engine and gearbox with floor stick. Went OK on the straight but the bends were a bit of a challenge

james

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