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david c

New rear wheel bearings?

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Smashing evening yesterday and a good drive out to my local club meet, only spoiled by a slight squeak from nearside rear wheel, to start with had to turn the music down to hear it (is it me or does ones hearing improve significantly when driving a classic) by the end of my journey home the noise was rather more pronounced. By now I am getting worried is the wheel about to fall off, so it's slowly slowly home for the last ten miles.

My question is what could the noise be? it's not a rumble it is a high pitched regular squeak. I jacked the back up this afternoon and wiggled the wheel side to side and top to bottom and there is a little "play" but I think that may be worn a worn hub?

Sorry to ramble David

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David  - yes it was a great club meet evening last night  - re your squeak  - don't forget that's exactly what Mike's car did when he came to the meeting a few months ago and we all laughed at the squeak as he drove up, but we weren't laughing a week later when his nearside rear wheel feel off on the A12!

To really check your hubs, you need to take the brake drums off ( you can check the screws at the same time!) and the brakes , clean the hub really well , preferably with a wire brush in an angle grinder  to get it really shiny and minutely inspect it for any cracks on the back of the flange - if you want some help, give Mike a call as he is only down the road from you.

Cheers

Rich

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I think that is a good starting point, as a matter of interest what exactly was the cause of Mikes "inconvenience".

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With the brake drum removed you might also check the end float of the hub with a dial indicator gauge. A really worn bearing would exhibit a lot of looseness I should think.

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8 hours ago, david c said:

I think that is a good starting point, as a matter of interest what exactly was the cause of Mikes "inconvenience".

David - the rear near side hub broke between the front plate which carries the wheel studs and the rear part which contains the bearings - net result is your wheel comes off complete with brake drum - then you are in God's hands! Mike was lucky that he managed to bring the car to a halt without hitting any other cars or losing control and ended up in the inside lane of the A12 at Kelvedon, having arrived there from the outside lane at 70 mph - guess what - the hub was a reconditioned unit less than 1500 miles old and purchased from a respected specialist.

I'm sure he will describe events much more graphically than me   - yet another reason to avoid reconditioned hubs!

Cheers

Rich

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Dave, mine was making the same noise for a couple of weeks a few years ago, then one day the axle shaft sheared at the bottom of the thread,fortunately I was only going about 10 mph, still makes my bottom twitch when I think what would have happened if I had been travelling at speed.

Incidentally I replaced both hubs with rebuilt ones, which I have now had to replace because one of them became really noisy and the bearing was tight and notchy, and they had only done about 5-6 thousand miles.

Decided to replace both with Moss new manufactured ones for peace of mind.

Fingers crossed these will last longer than the rebuilt ones did.

Forgot to mention that this was on a tr6.

 Dave

 

 

 

Edited by cubehopper
forgot to add what car this problem was on

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35 minutes ago, John Morrison said:

Is this on a TR4A?

John.

John - short answer - yes!

cheers Rich

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This issue relates to all of the IRS TRs as well as the Stags and 2000/2.5 saloons.

The hubs are essentially fine however the stub axles are 50 years old so perhaps fatigued already, then someone applies enormous force with a press to separate the hub to fit new bearings and at a stroke takes the metal fatigue from moderate to critical and shortly after the hub breaks.

If you decide to replace the bearings, get it done by someone with experience of rebuilding Triumph hubs otherwise you may well get id done by someone with a huge press and a hammer and with it potentially serious consequences.

Personally I wouldn't advocate rebuilding the rear hub. New are available, both in standard guise and also uprated. The problem is that the new ones are nearly as as expensive as an uprated one that comes with a CV jointed drive shaft.

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I have a live axle Tr4a, so no IRS woes. However can a similar failure happen with the front stub axles/hubs? I don’t know the age of the ones on my car.

Jim

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Look for cracks on the TA brackets. I found out while investigating rear end squeaks 

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3 hours ago, Tr4aJim said:

I have a live axle Tr4a, so no IRS woes. However can a similar failure happen with the front stub axles/hubs? I don’t know the age of the ones on my car.

Jim

Not often if at all.

Stuart.

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Well that's all food for thought, I have had a look today and had hoped to find an area of bright metal that I could pin the squeak down too, no such luck, bu**er.

So it's down to replacing both sides, I'm a little concerned about the reports of reconditioned units failing after only very low mileage so I suspect I'm going to have to look at the newly manufactured or uprated units. at an arm and a leg each. unless anyone one can PM me a reputable source of supply for reconditioned.

In the mean time I'll keep off the A12.

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This poor quality issue raises its ugly head yet again! How on earth do we know what is good and what is not. Probably will find cheap rubbish when I get my wiper wheel boxes out. Not so critical as rear hubs but still a pain after such low mileages.

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Chris Witor of the Triumph 2000/2.5Pi/2500 register has the correct Churchill Tool and knows how to use it, ... I watched him separate and rebuild a couple of hubs for my 2.5Pi saloon some years ago, ..... it's quite exciting when the drive flange and stub axle let go!!.

It's worth giving him a ring.

Cheers Rob 

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Hi David,

              old hubs are old and one day will fail - not many years life.  Refurb'd hubs using the same stub axle are equally as bad - and will fail - not many years life.

An old hub that has not failed may be 40 or fifty years old - but will indeed fail.

A refurb'd hub with a NEW stub axle should be equal to an original hub and have a long life - it is the stub axle that dictates the life.

A new hub should have a long life.

How good are newly produced versions of the ST hub - In speaking to Moss they have sold a great many (100's) with no breakages - their words.

I fitted a pair of Moss hubs over two years ago (apprx 20,000). They where quite stiff to rotate, had no perceivable end float but have worked perfectly. There is no play anywhere in them.

At £250 it is a big step to take.  Their CV shaft is >£1000.

My Moss hubs should have a decent 28 years of life ion them.

Do not use refurb'd hubs unless you know that the stub axle NEW

Roger

Edited by RogerH

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This is the point, its the shafts that break so unless the re-conditioner has the shafts properly crack tested (which they dont) then its always going to be the weak point.

Just buy new ones.

Stuart.

Edited by stuart

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Hi Stuart,

due to the nature of the steel and its heat treatment crack testing will do no good.

If there is a crack then you may find it. But. you will not find a crack that has not start yet or is very very small.

Similar steel on aircraft is often life'd as once the steel structure starts to 'go' it will be rapid.

 

Roger

 

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Thank you gents for your replies, very helpful.

Looks like a bit of a minefield out there with units "when available" at hugely different prices, this is going to take some phone calls to sort out whats what.

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I replaced my rear hubs with the quaife uprated versions last year for ££££ :wacko: but it made me feel safer given the European mileages I do.  I took the opportunity to polybush  all the suspension at the same time.

The problem I have is the polybushes squeak and I’ve taken to dismantling the whole suspension to regrease them to try to quieten them.

If you have polybushes at the back could it be that?

Roger did a checklist for rear end squeaks a while back which was very useful to track down my squeak. perhaps he can repost?

Is your squeak constant or does it only start when things get warm after a few miles?

 

cheers

dave

 

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So having taken Stuarts advise I have just finished replacing the old hubs with shiny new ones and the old UJ's with new. What a filthy 'orible job, it took half an hour just to clean up the tools and I now need to buy another box of those very fetching blue gloves. having said all that I have learned a lot.

One. Wacking the shafts with a big hammer is a surprisingly effective way of getting the UJ's out.

Two. Getting the little bu**ers back in is a blinking nightmare (except in the new hubs where they slipped in a treat without having to use a long tube on the vice handle)

Three. Have a good supply of rags and the paper towel handy for the rubber ware fitting and forget about trying to finesse them on, brute force and a stout pair of pliers!

            ( I was fortunate the old rubbers were in good serviceable condition, from what I have read the new ones would't take the stresses)

Four.  If it's not going well walk away have a nice cup off tea or coffee calm down and when you go back in it will "probably" go a lot better. 

Five.  The removal and refitting spanner work is the easy bit. Think again if you think you can do this in a couple of days, with my skill levels anyway in took four days!

Thanks all for your advise........as always David

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Well Done David.

When I fitted mine I then checked the hubs apprx every fortnight. Jack the wheel up and check for any play. There shouldn't be any.

Eventually you give up and except they are good.

Roger

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Thank you Roger, If we get to see some decent weather I will certainly do as you suggest. 

David

Edited by david c

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