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Injectors air issue


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Hi All,

Started the TR after being idle for a couple of weeks, firing on 4, 1&2 not pulsing.

Had similar before with other injectors but has either cleared itself or taken out and bled, then all ok.

This time a managed to get a dribble out of 2 but absolutely nothing out of 1.

Will be back during the week to try and bleed again.

Question is why, when the car is left for a few weeks, does this keep happening?

All injectors, MU, PRV refurbished recently.

Thanks

Dave

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Dave,

I had a very similar issue, I changed the one way valve on the MU and the issue has gone. Not an easy solution for your cyl no 2 but you could try the union on cyl 1 to see if this resolves that cylinder issue to start with.

On my car I also noticed one of the injectors was dripping when the engine was turned off - so it was losing the pressure and fuel stored in the injector. Even though this injector was spraying well when running.

Regards

Bob

 

 

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Hi Cookie

Its a real pain when this happens, especially when you want some Loud peddle action :angry:

Im not sure if you have the car at home, if you do then try and make a consious effort to start it al least once a week.  I have been doing this for the past 9 years and have not had any problems, I found out the hard way in my first year of ownership i left the 6 to stand in the garage for 4 months. Boy was it a bu@@er to start, It only ran on 4 for about 3 miles before i got beauty singing on all 6:D

 

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It was this kinda hassle which lead me to fit the supercharger. Don't get me wrong, I love the PI system. Really clever bit of engineering. But doesn't like being left idle..

tim

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here we go again,  Err ive got air in my pipes,

its just about every week/ month  or so this pops up.

same  mostly wrong  { but well meaning } advice given t,stop it,

you must have seen em all,  owa the years i take it,  yes !!

but its never really stopped it on theirs

 

Gotta think of older type deisel systems

cos this is basicly what yer PI acts like

its pressure dependent,  so what causes loss of pressure an it no working, !!!

 

a few things t,check, sort out

lack of filters in right orientation

an aftermarket pump plummed in wrong

a wrong aftermarket filter set up

not listening t,past advice which has been given { cos im not TR  as been told befoer  !! }

and ,t put cat amongs Pidgeons,

listening t,folk wid ne idea of PI quirks,working principle, an hoo t,sort it oot

esp so called Pros,selling duff / wrong stuff for application

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi,

 

Thanks for the replies, going to the TR tomorrow to have a play and hopefully sort it.

Dave

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13 hours ago, GT6M said:

here we go again,  Err ive got air in my pipes,

its just about every week/ month  or so this pops up.

same  mostly wrong  { but well meaning } advice given t,stop it,

you must have seen em all,  owa the years i take it,  yes !!

but its never really stopped it on theirs

 

Gotta think of older type deisel systems

cos this is basicly what yer PI acts like

its pressure dependent,  so what causes loss of pressure an it no working, !!!

 

a few things t,check, sort out

lack of filters in right orientation

an aftermarket pump plummed in wrong

a wrong aftermarket filter set up

not listening t,past advice which has been given { cos im not TR  as been told befoer  !! }

and ,t put cat amongs Pidgeons,

listening t,folk wid ne idea of PI quirks,working principle, an hoo t,sort it oot

esp so called Pros,selling duff / wrong stuff for application

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HI GT6M,

Thanks for your reply just having a bit of trouble understanding it.

Dave

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Got them all pulsing after taking 1 and 2 out and bleeding.

Still running like a pig, engine note changes when taking each plug cap off.

Bit more work required over the weekend, checking spray again and plugs. Shame as i should be driving it.

Thanks

Dave

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Hi Dave,

why not first take her out for a longer drive, before getting the spanners.

It may cure the issue.

Waldi

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1 minute ago, Waldi said:

Hi Dave,

why not first take her out for a longer drive, before getting the spanners.

It may cure the issue.

Waldi

Hi Waldi,

I have driven a mile or 2 in it and its really not good, firing on 5 at most maybe 4.

There is the odd backfire so thinking the plugs may need cleaning.

On cylinder one i wasn't getting a good spray so need to recheck that.

Very frustrating as it was running like a dream around 3 weeks ago.

The other thing i don't currently understand is that when i pulled off each spark plug cap the note changed.

Will be having a play on Sunday.

Dave 

 

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Hi Dave,

if you pull off a spark plug and the note (revs) change, that’s good. Put it back and do the same with the next etc.

If all cilinders do this you at least know they all fire. I assume you have checked the ignition? A faulty condensator, loose connection, coil or rotor can also cause poor running on all cylinders. Maybe stating the obvious but worth checking each of these.

Waldi

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Try replacing the coil...

gives similar issues an can be very intermittent

Tim

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Thanks for the comments, the plot thickens.

Started her up, seemed like no2 not firing.

Had all the plugs out, sooty so cleaned them up. Prob due to car not being on the road for long and no real journeys.

While the plugs out, took out injectors 1 and 2, lovely conical spray.

Put it all back, started her up, lovely, running just how a TR should.

Took her out for a short road trip 4 or 5 miles. Running lovely for the first 2 miles or so.

At the end of a faster bit of road, slowed for a roundabout, noticed straight away not running well again.

Like that all the way back.

Injector 2 not pulsing, took it out, no spray, not even a dribble. Tried all the usual tricks for a short while, no luck.

Any ideas what could cause that.

Set up is.

Bosch Pump

PRV, MU, Injectors all refurbished by Neil a while ago.

Just over a 1/4 tank of petrol.

Thanks

 

Dave

 

 

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1 hour ago, aardvark said:

Dave. 

Sometimes they just need a good blast to clear it out.  Have you given it an Italian tune up?

cheers

dave

Hi,

Was in the process of trying to do that but afraid it didn't work.

Dave

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Dave, if you now notice a clear difference in pulsation, it is more likely fuel related, not ignition.

Did the fuel pump make a different sound once it started running poor again?

If so, I would fill the tank up with 98 or 102 (if available) to increase head (pressure) to the pump.

Was it colder weather the last time she ran well? 

Waldi

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What’s the furthest you have driven it Dave? Perhaps take it out for a longer drive once you have re-bled the injector?

 It sounds like there is a plug of air in the system which is bleeding out towards the injector nozzle where it needs some encouragement to exit either by manually bleeding the injector or via the Italian tune up method.  Providing no air re- enters the system then (obviously) it should be ok thereafter.  I had a very small petrol leak (weep) from a nylon injector pipe once which gave similar symptoms to what you are experiencing.  A very slight discolouration of the black pipe was the give away but it was enough for the system to depressurise on shutdown and for air to re-enter.  The problem was that the old pipe had been cut off the union with a blade and the blade had slightly scored the union allowing a path for air to enter the system.  Worth checking?

cheers

dave

 

 

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Hi Dave

Looks like number 2 injector is causing your problem so I would first swop that injector with another one, other than number one.  Bleed the injectors and take it out for another drive. If you still have a problem with no 2 then you know it's not the injector. I would then work backwards and have a look at the one  way valve or o ring at the Mu. I might first check that your wiring to the pump is not overheating as that can cause your symptoms. I had similar problem and it turned out to be wiring.

best of luck

Roger

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Update.. Today i took out injector 2, nothing not even a drip of petrol.

Removed plugs, bled injector, eventually got some fuel through.

Haven't swapped any over yet.

Went for a 15 mile ish drive with a bit of the loud pedal to the metal.

Driving beautifully.

Will take it out again on Tuesday to see if its still ok.

Thanks for all your comments.

The VuVuzela came back for a very short time, next job i guess is a new PRV.

 

Dave

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4 minutes ago, ntc said:

Basic stuff alas its called MUCK in system.

It's a brand new tank, new pipe work, all injection parts refurbished.

If it is muck then no idea how it got there, unless dodgy petrol.

Any hints on what and where to look for it.

Thanks

 

Dave

 

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27 minutes ago, cookie said:

It's a brand new tank, new pipe work, all injection parts refurbished.

If it is muck then no idea how it got there, unless dodgy petrol.

Any hints on what and where to look for it.

Thanks

 

Dave

 

You have answered your own question,it can be anything in the system.I would remove pipes and airline it all clear if not it will end up in the mu or injectors.  

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Just wonder if your new tank is baffled.

About 30 Years ago I bought a USA TR6 and a 2.5 PI saloon for its injection system. The PI system generally worked reasonably well, tended to cough and fart a lot on start up, but if I did a long motorway journey it would run far better.

One Winter I decided I was going to fit the TR engine back into the PI saloon since I had fitted a 2 litre carb engine that was totally gutless.

What a transformation!, the engine always ran crisp and clean and did so until Spring when I decided the engine needed to go back into the TR for the summer. (you might guess I had more time than money back then)!

Cough,fart, splutter just like before. It was at this point I realised the carburettor cars had unbaffled fuel tanks. When below half a tank fuel surge would send air down the fuel pipe and the PI system cannot function properly with air in the system. I note in your post you said it had about 1/4tank of fuel........

I eventually sold my TR6 with the carb engine that came from my TR250 and the PI engine went into the TR250 with a 4 inch deep sump welded into the bottom of the unbaffled TR250 tank.

Again the engine ran perfectly since the air stayed out of the system, until after a couple of years I fitted my first Stag engine. When ethanol was introduced to petrol it rotted the glass fibre that was bunging up the various rot holes in the tank so I had a new alloy tank made with the same sump since the concept had worked so well.

Neil

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On 5/27/2019 at 5:54 PM, cookie said:

Hi All,

Started the TR after being idle for a couple of weeks, firing on 4, 1&2 not pulsing.

Had similar before with other injectors but has either cleared itself or taken out and bled, then all ok.

This time a managed to get a dribble out of 2 but absolutely nothing out of 1.

Will be back during the week to try and bleed again.

Question is why, when the car is left for a few weeks, does this keep happening?

All injectors, MU, PRV refurbished recently.

Thanks

Dave

Hi Neil,

Are you still using the original Lucas CAV filter system? If you are there is a bleed screw on the top of the zinc die casting to let out the trapped air which was in suspension in the petrol. If this screw is not opened up periodically you will get air in the injectors as it seems to be a collection point for trapped air in petrol.

Bruce.

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