That was a year that was..

[Bfg]

45 minutes ago, Charlie D said:

I’m not sure how many people know this, but there is a version that has a coating of heat-meltable glue inside which helps fill any gaps where the shrink has not gone all the way.

Thanks Charlie, I didn't know about that stuff, I'll give it a try.

35 minutes ago, Lebro said:

another way to achieve the same is to squirt some hot melt adhesive over the joint, then immediately slide the heatshrink over the joint, & shrink down, excess glue emerges from the ends of the sleeve as it shrinks, this can be easily wiped off

Thanks Bob, I've not used hot melt adhesive at all, but do use clear 'Liquid Electrical Tape' and, before it cured, used heat-shink over that.  There's plenty of working time and again the excess squeezes out and can be neatly wiped away.  I generally only do that in vulnerable / exposed marine applications ..like the wiring connections on the mast (which is deck stepped) or those to nav. lights on the pulpit,  or else under vehicle wings and trailer mudguards, where their sidelights &/or indicators are mounted through that panel, and then again for the rear lamp connections on motorcycles. 

Pete. 

[PodOne]

10 minutes ago, Bfg said:

Thanks Charlie, I didn't know about that stuff, I'll give it a try.

Thanks Bob, I've not used hot melt adhesive at all, but do use clear 'Liquid Electrical Tape' and, before it cured, used heat-shink over that.  There's plenty of working time and again the excess squeezes out and can be neatly wiped away.  I generally only do that in vulnerable / exposed marine applications ..like the wiring connections on the mast (which is deck stepped) or those to nav. lights on the pulpit,  or else under vehicle wings and trailer mudguards, where their sidelights &/or indicators are mounted through that panel, and then again for the rear lamp connections on motorcycles. 

Pete. 

Hi all

I have used these https://kojaycat.co.uk/epages/950000457.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950000457/Categories/Heat_Shrink_Terminals/Heat_Shrink_Spade_Crimps over the years or similar in various auto applications and never had any issues. A bit more expensive but worth it as they provide all the above benefits, just ensure you use a good crimping tool.

Downside is they don't look period.

Andy

[Bfg]

Andy, interesting to learn of these - I'd not seen them before. Cheers.  As you say they don't look in keeping with the period, but that's not so important to some.  Still for myself, it's been useful to learn of this supplier and to browse through their catalogue of all sorts of goodies specific to boat, motorcycle, towing bracket and vulnerable electrics on other vehicles. As it happens I'd been looking for a few metres of black pvc sleeving for running wires along the top of the inner wheel-arches in the engine bay - which they have, whereas my local suppliers couldn't help.  Thanks as I can now compare their catalogue and prices with the likes of the Green Sparkplug co. which I've frequently used.

Pete.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Bfg

[stillp]

20 hours ago, Bfg said:

 

by increasing voltage, would the current not be increased to overcome high-resistance connections for (as I said) "equivalent power to reach the component" ?    ie., P=AV   ...and is the voltage from the dynamo not regulated by the control box, each with its (in Katie's  case) very loose crimped connectors.?

 

Yes, increasing the voltage will of course increase the current, but in the great majority of circuits on a car the voltage is fixed within a narrow band by the battery. The dynamo circuits are perhaps an exception.

20 hours ago, Bfg said:

 

I note your point about the crimping tool needing the right dies and terminals ..for each type and size of connector.  I might only guess that there is also an element of care or skill required by the operator.  Perhaps I've had unusual experience, but certainly very few of the home-crimped terminal connections I've come across, on UK, European, Japanese, or America imported vehicles, have been up to par. 

 

A proper crimping tool, i.e. one with a ratchet, will almost completely de-skill the crimping process.

I agree that many home-crimped connectors are unsatisafactory, often because they have been crimped with the sort of crimping tool where the pressure applied to the crimp depends on how hard the handles are squeezed and so have not been fully crimped. The crimping tools that have notches for stripping wires and come in a cheap set of crimps tend to have rather thin handles which are painful to squeeze sufficiently.

20 hours ago, Bfg said:

I'd tend to disagree with your point about solder being inflexible, to the point where "the individual wires are likely to fracture".  Well let's say.., I've personally never seen, nor personal experience of that,

Well Pete, you've lived a very sheltered life! On the other hand, I've spent a lot of time investigating failure modes, and that's a common cause of failure.

Pete

[Lebro]

Soldering terminals on multistrand cables will always result in the solder wicking up between the strands for at least a short distance,

If the cable is well supported beyond the point where the solder stops then all should be ok,

if not then any flexing of the cable will stress, & eventually fracture the strands where the solder ends. The outer ones go first, then the failures work inwards till there is not much of the conductor left.

Bob

[Charlie D]

As far as the red/blue/yellow crimps are concerned I  totally agree with Stillp when he says you need a ratchet type crimping tool. I’m fortunate to have a quality one that was given to me by the last company I worked for. (We used them on rack power supplies. Part of a nation wide fiber-optics network, so had to be reliable.)

We always used terminals supplied by RS and never had a problem.
When I left the company, and eventually ran out of the RS items that had been given to me as a leaving present I bought some more from eBay.

Totally different experience. I don’t know what is was but 50% of the crimps pulled off and I had little faith in the others.

My advice would be if you want to use that sort of terminal,  pay a bit more and buy your crimps from RS, ( and make sure you use the right colour to go with the cable size.)

Charlie.

[Lebro]

I always get mine from CPC (a division of Farnell) so probably same quality as RS,

I have never had any pull off, & yes a proper ratcheting crimp tool is essential.

Bob

[Bfg]

After a couple of weeks of no activity (on the car at least) here's little modification I've just done . . .

    

^ Adding a sidelight into the headlamp  ..which was simply a matter of marking where the rubber cover goes and drilling a hole clear-inside that boundary of 12mm diameter (..having first removed the headlamp bulb of course).  I have one of those stepped drill bits which steps up in 2mm increments from 4 to 20mm, so the task was easy. The two bulb holders I'd bought at the same as ordering the LED bulbs from 'Classic Car LEDs' - their part number is BA9HOP 170790,  and they take standard BA9 (bayonet fitting 9mm) bulb &/or an LED's to fit.  I opted for LEDs in line with my objective to minimise electrical loads / prolong battery life ..should I break down at night.   I did carefully bend the terminals flat to make this easier, but as you can see, complete with wiring connections it neatly fits under that dust/water cover.

The two wires I made to suit.  After drilling a 10mm hole in the bottom of the headlamp bowl and these wires being sleeved - they simply plug into the bullet terminals of the original light's wiring loom

^ Katie's  headlamp reflectors are Wipac, and the little LED bulb now fitted can just about be seen under the H4 halogen headlamp bulb.  

^ the result is quite unobtrusive, even on a 1967 car,  but imo useful in terms of their being more noticeable to contemporary motorists.  The original but tiny side lights were bright enough but they offered little in way of 'distance perspective' to most other drivers ..whereas a pair of 7" headlamps, even on sidelights, is quite obvious.  And that recognition is to me an important safety feature.  Just my opinion of course, but for around £10 for fittings and the bulbs, and a few hours work, I think worthwhile. 

Cheers, Pete  

 

[Mk2 Chopper]

Great idea, and not noticeable from an originality point of view. 

Gareth

[Bfg]

4 hours ago, Mk2 Chopper said:

Great idea, and not noticeable from an originality point of view. 

Gareth

Have to watch out for the nocturnal rivet counters though. they wouldn't approve

[Drewmotty]

I use led pilots in my headlamps as daylight running lights. They look very similar to my led headlamps but don’t dazzle oncoming vehicles as they don’t project due to their position in the lower part of the reflector. 

[harlequin]

I have done the same mod on my TR6, it makes the car that little bit more visible and am now thinking of getting them to come on automatically for the odd occasion that I forget to turn them on (and off ).

My ignition switch has a terminal that is live when the key is inserted even if the ignition is not on ,so that will be my switching source and then I will use the original side light switch as an override for parking lights.

George 

[Bfg]

inbetween bouts of every kind of weather, I'm still been pottering around with 'revitalising' wiring connections ..and of course a few changes.  Here's a quick gallery in no particular order of, just some of, the many things that each of us have or will face sooner or later, and which altogether take a time to clean up and make right again . . .

   

^ Just one of the daisy-chain instrument illumination lamps.    ^^ second photo ;  the temperature sender wire (where the crimping was perhaps just a little too cutting, and (white) the fraying loose (..poorly supported) feed wire to the coil. 

    

^ under the switch plinth, top the left is copper-green slime in connections onto the ignition switch, and a block of blue masking tape, which turned out to be a taped-on push button switch for an electric screen-wash pump.     Access behind the central instruments and switch is insufficient for my size of hand ..Oh how I was once spoiled with an old Jaguar's hinge-open centre-console, with its fuse panel behind.. all in clear view and easily reached from the comfort of the fragrant Connolly leather seats.    

^^ right ;    RHS headlamp main-beam and dip-beam wires with sheared-through insulation. This is odd insomuch as these wires connect near the centre of the car and so I cannot see how such damage occurred (nor know not when).  Had they been switched live at that time then the spark would have been impressive !

   

^ LHS headlamp bulb connector, melted.  That particular (dip beam) wire had also been spliced immediately adjacent to the connector, and although soldered, it hadn't been protected from the elements and so had corroded through the wire again (..it literally broke off in my fingers).  I replaced the whole length of wire as its shorting-out had made its insulation go hard (and brittle).

^^ right ;  25A, 7ohm resistor connected to either front indicator, where LED bulbs had been fitted.  The ceramic casing of the resistor is like a hard edge and surprisingly heavy little brick, just left to hang from the wire.  Changing the flasher relay made these redundant, but the lamp's wires had been damaged with these connectors ..so again had to be replaced.

  

^ the shortness of these clamps, for the instruments, was discovered when I removed the timber from my (TR4A) dashboard, to go naked ! (..painted metal dashboard).  Of course, because the steel dash is so much thinner - these clamps need to be 6 - 10mm longer.  For expediency, I resorted to welding metal plates on, to extend their length.   Nay-a-mind, only the mice will see them.!

   

^ LED side-lamps and indicators have now been fitted in each corner ..although I have yet to remove the rear lamp units themselves, to check and clean those bulb holders.  As you can see I've added a little sticky-back aluminium tape, as a reflector, behind these side repeater indicator bulb. The tape is a left-over from when I fitted aluminium-faced insulation panels inside my storage-container. I don't know what was original for these lamps, but it seemed daft to have black rubber behind a bulb.  Naturally care should be taken., because aluminium is a conductor, and so this 'reflector' should be well clear of the bulb's contacts.   

^^ The whole of LHS side-repeater lamp assembly has been loose on the front wing, since before I bought the car, and now I've replaced its fastening studs for new, so that it could be tightened.  The front side lamp was working but obviously compromised by moisture ingress, from where the rubber seals have perished. I've cleaned up the metal work and all the connections. New rubber for these, the rear lights and also those for the headlamps ..are on order. 

 

   

^ under the bonnet ;  I've now run the front lighting-loom along and over the top of the driver's side inner-wing (rather than those wires being under the carburettors). The wires wrapping (..twice wrapped for whatever reason) has been removed and the wires are now inside a sleeve (together with a mouse in case i want to pull another wire forward).  With the TR6 plastic fan, this engine tends to run cool, and so I see little need to have ducting in front of the radiator. NB. I can always add it at a later date should I find it necessary during the summer.  In the meantime, without that ducting, there's a plenty of cool under-bonnet air flow, to all the other parts (..not least the car's battery, hydraulics, engine ancillaries, etc)  and to feed the carburettors.

For tidiness and ease of support, I've routed the wires to the LHS headlamp, sidelight, indicator and horn, through the front valance. A pair of 30mm diameter holes were already there, so I just needed to add grommets to protect the loom from chafing.

I've removed the car's two (twin-tone) horns from the front suspension towers (..as their wiring connections annoyingly snagged my sleeve each time I reached passed them to work on the engine's fan, radiator hoses or dynamo), and now only the high-tone one is fitted.  Ideally it would have been fitted low down on the RHS (to save the length of wire run) ..but the radiator's expansion bottle was in the way, so instead it's fitted near the bottom of the LHS inner wheel-arch (..which seems to amplify the hoot !). Again I found a suitable mounting hole already there.  You can just about see the wire leading to that horn in the above photo. And.. with just one horn, I'm happy to be rid of the horn's relay and its additional wiring as well. 

Talking with a boat-owner friend about this car's wiring, I was bewildered as to why the TR4A suddenly needed a horn relay ..when one wasn't deemed necessary on earlier cars.?  Initially his thinking was that it must surely be related to Triumph going from positive to negative earth (which appears to have happened around about the same time) and the horn's wiring always being live (un-switched).  I wasn't convinced.  Looking further into this, I noted Roger_H's  suggestion that the coil of wire in the horn button's plunger was necessarily small and couldn't take the electrical load, and so was unreliable. Tbh, that didn't make a whole of sense to me when I read the specification of the earlier car's horns drew more current. 

After some deliberation (..with Katie ! ), I deduced - the introduction of the relay coincided with different horns being fitted to the later cars.  Let me share my route to this conclusion ... 

Similarly., the headlamps have large diameter wires around the engine bay ..but still only 'normal' wires to their switch. And again, only normal (ie., relatively skinny) wires on the spurs between the main-loom's bullet connectors and each bulb.  But despite the current draw of headlamps - still No  relay was fitted.  We deduced the reason for the heavier wires in the forward section of the lighting loom, was not specifically for carrying the current to their (now) 60w headlamp bulbs (ie., 5 amps @ 12v), but rather to minimise the voltage drop  over their respective length of wire ..which of course would tend to result in the LHS headlamp being dimmer (..it being some 50" further along the loom than the RHS headlamp).  So, to balance this (..and also account for why).. the wiring loom to the headlamps goes the centre of the car, to the bullet-connectors, and then the spur wires to the RHS headlamp unit retrace their 25" way back again to the lamp.  This is so the length of wires to each headlamp (ie., the voltage drop and therefore each bulb's luminosity) is the same.   There was method in their madness after all !

It is the length of wire (when too thin) that causes the voltage drop.  And very likely, Lucas' new (12v) spiral type of horn was more sensitive to voltage drop than the old bulbous ones ..which were derived from their 6v counterparts.  I'd bet, when fitted to the TR, the new horns proved quieter than the old ones !   Oops !! 

What could be done ! ? 

Unlike the headlamps, the (earlier cars) horns were not locally earthed.  Instead they shared both the same power source (on the TR4, a connection on the solenoid) and the same earth (through the horn button and steering column).  I estimate, the wiring circuit (..of just the two horns) to be almost 240" long ..from the solenoid to one, then onto the other horn, and back, before going off to the horn-button earth.

And even though the horns are wired in parallel - the 120" loop of wire to & from the LH side of the car, would have figured in.  So with new (voltage sensitive) horns, that (LHS) horn would be quieter still.  On my own car the LHS horn happened to be the Low-tone horn which sounds duller anyway.

So, Standard-Triumph, together with Lucas, resolved the issue by fitting a relay immediately besides  the nearest horn. The horn's power source was taken from the control box, also in the engine bay, and the horns joint earth was just there next to the relay.  The horn circuit's loop, from power source to both horns, and to its localised earth on the body shell, now had a total length of around 156".  It may still seem a lot, but that's the price of fitting a horn on to either side of the car.  Importantly, with a relay - this is just two-thirds of what it was,  and sufficient a reduction in voltage-drop for the new horns to be effective.  Very likely, the old type of horn was soon-to-become obsolete, and even with a  relay - the new horns were cheaper, smaller and lighter weight for Triumph. 

I cannot say for certain, not least because I've otherwise been cleaning all the connections up and have shortcut the steering rack's earth, but I'd say my single horn is noticeably louder / more pronounced than when the two horns with relay were fitted.

In a similar vain ; the wires for Katie's  temperature gauge sender and coil used to come around the front of the car. They now go through the LHS bulkhead, along with the rev counter cable, and go directly to the instrument panel.  The wire to the coli previously came from the fuse box, with an around about 116" wiring run. With it now coming directly from the ignition switch the wire is 47" long.  I wonder if having a little extra voltage to the low-tension side of the coil will make any difference.?  There's even more in length cut out of the temperature-gauge wire.  More importantly perhaps - both these wires are now less vulnerable and better supported than their original route.

 

moving on . . .

   

^ Back to the dashboard instruments, their electrical contacts and illumination bulb holders just needed a good cleaning and a smear of Vaseline to keep corrosion at bay.  Remembering that this car was first registered in 1967,  I'm really impressed with how Lucas produced such good quality OE equipment, that cost so little and yet has lasted so well, despite it having been fitted and forgotten, with little or no maintenance in all that time.  

^^ right ; the centre console is very much easier to handle than the full width plank of wood (aka ; veneered dashboard).  In this photo I've just refitted the daisy-chains of earths and instrument illumination lamps. Again I've gone over to LED bulbs in these.

  

^ with the cable wrap removed, and the cables cleaned (and of course each connector) it's easy to group the wires according to which instrument they go to.  Imo, everything doesn't need to be wrapped. Personally speaking I prefer loose-fitted sleeves, wherever they are needed (ie., when they may be vulnerable to moisture, dirt or damage). 

^^ second photo shows sticky-backed Velcro (white) I've stuck to the heater box, with black velcro (hook n' loop) I'm using to better secure the wires.  It's a new one on me, but I thought the idea worth a try ..and first impressions are that it's easy, very flexible to position and secure.

 

     

^ The LED indicator flasher unit came with a rubber sleeve but no clip for that to fit onto, so I made one (..a bit more of the back-plate of the scrapped boiler).   Drilling the hole for this (.. where it was to fit on the car) was very awkward because the steering column was in the way of where I wanted to get a drill in.  I'm mounting this flasher unit onto the side of the driver's side face vent's metal duct (between the air-intake-plenum and the dashboard) ..so that when it ticks - I might stand a chance of hearing it.!    I have yet to fathom why Triumph fitted the original indicator relay into the far corner of the passenger foot-well, ?   I kid you not.., this car's wiring loom could have been designed to work more efficiently with 10m less wire (..multiply that sort of value-engineering by 80,000 cars built and it surely adds up !)     

^^ wiring diagram, from Bob ..whose brilliance and kind hearted help have saved me and many others a whole bundle of working out.  I've just redrawn the same here according to the switch and relay, in my own hand-writing, for my own car.

    

^ I like small (neat) switches and so when Bob said he'd used the smaller size, I followed suit and bought the same..   When viewing the terminal layout in the drawing above, you might want to compare that with these photos of the actual switch (with a pencil and my thumb a reference to its size (or lack of).  Aside from fingers n' thumbs, my soldering iron is a tad big for this sort of work.!      In the first photo you'll see the wire going to two connectors (as per Bob's instructions) so I split the number of bare wire strands into two, tinned those with solder, and then like the others bent those wires into U shapes to hook through the switch terminal's holes. Crimp those U bends tight and touch the solder to them. Heat-shrink over each and a length of heat shrink as group tie and job done.  It must have been a 2-minute job (at least ! )  to connect this switch up.  And I still have the other ends of the wires to cut to length and add end-connectors to.  Still I'm pleased with how it came out, considering how I desperately need to go to Spec-Savers  ..mind perhaps after I get new glasses I'll be less than pleased. ! ?   

I haven't yet fitted it, as I'm sorting out other wires and switches first, like moving the TR4A light switch off the column, where it is easily knocked on by someone of my size getting in & out of the car. The light switch will now be a TR4 dashboard-mounted pull switch. . .

   

^ The TR4A column mounted light switch is now redundant, but actually wasn't in bad condition aside from some of the insulation on wires having cracked. I didn't want to disassemble the switch to clean it, and so like the other column switches used a small (water-colour painting) brush, with white spirit to clean out what I could. And then clean tissue to dry it again.  I would like to use this switch for the overdrive, but it's a three position (off, side and headlamps) switch, and so I yet have to work out which connections will best work for the simply On / Off of the overdrive.   

    

^ the indicator switch, was not in such good shape, It felt sluggish and limp handed, where the lever attached it was broken, glued back together and breaking again.  It suffered with corrosion, and aside from damaged insulation on some wires, it had the wrong type of screws fastening it onto the steering column. Those should have been (I believe) small set screws, and they were coarse-threaded self-tappers. One screw had fallen out and was rolling around in the bottom of the plastic housing.  It turned out the corrosion was the cause of it feeling really limp and sluggish, as the plastic mechanism dragged its way over the corroded springs (second photo).  I cleaned the switch out (with white spirit) cleaned of the corrosion as n' where I could, PTFE lubricated its moving parts (carefully brushed on), and the contacts with a smear of Vaseline, and used Araldite to repair the cracked & perished plastic where the lever attaches. The wires have cleaned up fine and I've applied 'Liquid Electrical Tape' to back-up their insulation.  In truth it's a temporary patchwork job that will probably only last another.. twenty or thirty years.!

   

^ This is the overdrive switch, as it came off, wrapped in gaffer tape but with its end open.  It still worked, but for how much longer I wonder ?  I've cleaned it up inside n' out, as I plan to reuse it for the headlamp's main / dip switch.  It's a two position switch but could be with three terminals.  It's position on the steering column (behind the indicator switch on the RHS of the steering column) would suit me much better than the original foot switch - which I find clunky, awkward, uncertain, and generally in the way of a clutch rest for my big feet.  I do like the nostalgic quaintness of a foot-operated main/dip switch, but really that's not so very important when driving the car at night.  My car and I'm going to kick that foot switch out ..or use it for something else (think 007 ! ) ?  

I think that's enough for tonight.

Bottom line though, is that each of these things take quite a bit of time to work through and correct.  But after finding a host of potential unreliability issues lurking and just waiting for a wet night and an urgent appointment  ..I'm glad to have taken the time to do them now. 

Pete

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Bfg

[Mk2 Chopper]

You've certainly covered a lot of ground in those pictures, I too get amazed how some electrical connections still work when they look in a shocking state. Good job. 

Gareth

[RobH]

Well done Pete.  That should have markedly improved the reliability of your electrical system. 

Your second picture shows why I don't like that type of crimp connector  -  not enough cable support.

 The red insulation-displacement connectors in the sixth picture, used to splice in that resistor,  are definitely not good. They may make a connection but they can damage the wiring in the process.  The resistors are a bodge anyway and really negate any benefit from fitting LED lamps. 

If you have changed the wiring colours I hope you kept a record for future reference?  

 

[Charlie D]

Pete,

Something we used to tidy up and organise fibre optic patch leads was back-to-back velcro.
It's more gentle than hard plastic tie-wraps and reusable (When you discover you forgot about an extra wire in the loom.) Simply unwrap it and wrap it up again. You can make the wrap as tight or lose as you want.
Also you can cut it to what ever length you need.

https://www.hookandloop-direct.co.uk/?keyword=cable+ties&limitstart=0&option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=0

 

Charlie.

[Bfg]

Thank you both. yes it's surprising that quite a few of these things worked at all or without shorting out.

27 minutes ago, RobH said:

The resistors are a bodge anyway and really negate any benefit from fitting LED lamps. 

If you have changed the wiring colours I hope you kept a record for future reference?  

I'd guess the prior owner fitted LED bulbs to the front indicators was for sake of their improved luminosity. Reducing electrical load, when changing just two indicator bulbs, were probably not of importance for this vehicle's use. 

Yes, I've been surprised at the lack of wiring diagram accurate to the TR4A. The colours of the car's wiring was often different to those on the Auto-Wire diagram, and of course the workshop manuals are useless insomuch as they don't include a diagram for the 4A at all, despite the number of cars built and the numerous detail changes in switches and loom design between it and the TR4.     And then of course I've made quite a few changes too.   

I've tried to keep to the original Lucas colours, wherever I had decent wire to use.  From the photos of wires to the hazard warning-light switch, you can see that I'm out of some colours but I've recorded each on the diagram, and added a red end-band where I had no green with red tracer to use for the left-hand indicators.

It's still work-in-progress but I am drawing a full wiring diagram for this particular car. . .

 

^ in layout I've approximated the positioning of components and the routes of the wires around this particular car (aside from where the loom is looped over and around the heater). This is continually being updated as I systematically work on the car to clean the connections ..and otherwise as I continue to move things around ! 

Below is a detail of the same, from which you can see that I've found it easier to reproduce the terminal layout on some (such as the ignition switch) where  it is easier to follow.  And aside from just noting the colours of the wires, I've added notations to indicate where the wires go to, and which are LIVE.   Hopefully, the person who inherits this car ought to be able to follow it and if they so choose, to carry an electronic copy which they can zoom in to.

 

Again I hasten to add that these are work in progress and so may contain mistakes as I learn my way around its design. 

Pete

[john.r.davies]

BFG,

You may have noticed that all moderns have multiway plugs for each electrical device and connector.     This allows easy and error free reconnection if a device must be  unplugged.   While it's easy enough with the dashboard on the bench, grovelling under the dash once fitted, wit a torch in your mouth for illumination (!) makes getting the right wire on the right terminal less than easy.    So when I had the dash on the bench, I added multiways to the loom:

For instance, the above shows a speedo with the corresponding illumination and 'idiot' light connections, wired through a multiway.   If necessary, I can remove the instrument and replace it  by feel without looking behind the dash, as the multiway will only connection in one orientation, the correct one.

John

 

[Bfg]

16 minutes ago, Charlie D said:

Pete,

Something we used to tidy up and organise fibre optic patch leads was back-to-back velcro.
It's more gentle than hard plastic tie-wraps and reusable (When you discover you forgot about an extra wire in the loom.) Simply unwrap it and wrap it up again. You can make the wrap as tight or lose as you want.
Also you can cut it to what ever length you need.

https://www.hookandloop-direct.co.uk/?keyword=cable+ties&limitstart=0&option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=0

Charlie.

.. never heard of the stuff 

actually yeah I have..  It's something I started using on the boat for wiring, plumbing, keeping things tidy, etc.  And then on the vintage motorcycles I restored, where the wires were originally clamped to the frame tubes with purpose-made (no longer available) brackets, or else rubber strap ties were used.  Either were a p.i.t.a. and so over the years most prior owners have swapped to using sticky plastic insulating tape, or the plastic cable-ties,which as you say are really too narrow to cradle the wires. They also chafe through the frame's paint. 

Cut to particular length, to suit each location (in this case - tube diameter) a wrap of the hook n' loop  made life so much easier.  It's neat, doesn't rust, rattle or chafe,  is very easy to fit, and it offers good cable support.  I also use a lot in the home.. for tidying up and containing the cables of power tools, battery chargers, extension leads, etc., etc. 

I've even been known to used it as a belt to hold my trousers up ..when the pretend-leather belt gave in to the stretch imposed upon it.  !

On Katie, the headlamp wires, now tucked under the front valance, have a wrap of the hook n' loop in the middle to support those bullet connections.  And in the corners, by the headlamps I've again used it to support those connections. In that instance I wrapped the bundle (earths, side lights, indicators, along with their repeaters, and the main headlamp sub-loom) in a strip of inner-tube and then used the hook n' loop to keep that tight.  It takes just two seconds to pull off again, should I need to.  I've used it wrapped around the bonnet hinge bracket to keep those wires clear of being caught.  And  I also fasten it with a screw through (and washer) to fasten it to the body, which offers that's a quick extra support, or tidy, wherever required.   Handy and tidy for pipes (fuel pipe to the heater hose across the back of the engine) and HT leads too. 

Excellent stuff, used extensively, and highly recommended by both you and me    Buy 10m and you'll not regret having it around the home and garage / workshop

Thanks for the tip to others and the link. 

Hope you're keeping well Charlie,

Pete

[stuart]

I think judging by the state of the wiring to start with I would have just gone for a new loom, if you wanted anything different then spec it in the order.

Stuart.

[Bfg]

33 minutes ago, stuart said:

I think judging by the state of the wiring to start with I would have just gone for a new loom, if you wanted anything different then spec it in the order.

Stuart.

In retrospect, I'd generally agree with you. Tbh I didn't realise there were going to be so many time-consuming details to work through. My old Jaguar had twice the wiring of a TR, but was easier and quicker due to much clearer information, more logical routing of the wires, and seemingly easier access.  Perhaps my mind is slower, my hands have grown bigger, and my eyesight weaker  

Had I been taking Katie's  dash-board out completely, and been able to easily pull the loom out from around the heater, then I think this looms replacement would have been both quicker and better ..pending the quality of new supplies and their component parts (the new bullet connector blocks are certainly not as good quality as the originals).  I have no idea how much a bespoke wiring loom would cost, but it would have been nice to have done professionally..  

However I'd still have to go through every connection on the component itself and each light unit, so the actual time-saved in new replacement would have been far less a percentage of the overall task.  For example ; of my taking half a day to remove and make-good the side repeater lamp, next to nothing of that was to do with the main loom, likewise the indicator and headlamp wiring.  And to also replace each of those components, instruments and light units for new.. would have costed a fortune.  

Hey ho, the job is almost done now, and hopefully won't be much trouble in my lifetime. 

Pete

Edited April 11, 2022 by Bfg

[stuart]

Point I was trying to make was also about the parts of the loom that you havent been in also suffering from fatigue, according to loom manufacturers anything over about 30yrs old could be suspect.

Stuart.

[PodOne]

Hi Pete

Have to agree with Stuart after unwrapping my old loom there were a few places that had clearly been on fire and repaired which when rewrapped where invisible. All the connectors were also oxidised and black and I'm not convinced this won't have spread deeper under the insulation.

In the end I understand after all the many issues you have addressed over the winter why you want to be driving Katie and not crawling all over her making or installing a loom. Maybe a project for next winter! 

Andy

 

[Bfg]

Andy, I'm not disagreeing with Stuart or yourself, John or Charlie, Rob or Andrew., but I've unwrapped and inspected (visually and also by feel ) all of the wires and their connections in the engine bay, and likewise most of the wires under the dashboard ..and I've replaced the half-a-dozen or so wires on this particular car that I felt had been compromised (mostly by physical damage, or heat from the exhaust downpipes, rather than from excess electrical load).  And I've worked conscientiously to reduce the electrical loads in the wiring loom.  Any more would reflect an ever diminishing return ..and so it's time to move on.

At present, the sum cost of owning this car is the equivalent of £12 per mile I've driven, plus the cost of fuel.  This is above and beyond the purchase price of this already 'roadworthy' car.  And at this time in my life - a full year spent in getting the car into a sensible driveable state, is enough.  Once put back together, any more will have to be as maintenance and rolling improvements on Saturday afternoons or whenever. 

The tasks undertaken were never intended to be, nor has it been, a restoration, they were simply 'recommissioning' Katie  so she might be attractive (to me), be tolerably comfortable (for me), drive well (for normal road use), be safe and hopefully reliable - I've never lost sight of these objectives. 

In short,  I could spend the rest of my life never driving the car, nor doing much else either, but instead spending every afternoon, whatever the weather, working in a poly-tunnel ..forever trying to make this car last another 55 years ..when my own life expectancy is but a small fraction of that. 

 

Each one of us have to make the decision ; when we feel the task we have done is enough ..and very much more than was actually essential.   When is that exactly ?  ..with a new loom and a relays throughout, a dozen fuses, intermittent wipers, an all new cooling system with electric fan, a new heater with a silent fan and decent screen demist ? Once the engine is rebuilt from the ground up, with new carburettors and all new electrical components and engine ancillaries, new fuel tank, new suspension front & rear, new steering rack and arms, new brakes all around, new hydraulics, new glass, new door gear, new hood and irons, new trim and carpets, new dashboard, new sound system, new GPS navigation, new instruments, new chrome, powder coated this n' that, new paint inside and out  ????   ..just where exactly do you stop, before you just get in the car and drive it to the pub to meet up for a pleasant evening with friends ?  

"Fifty (..thousand ?) ways to leave your lover"  c. 1975.   Has he left yet  ? 

?

?

 

Btw.,  I'm not snapping at you, nor upset ..I'm just saying like. 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Bfg

[PodOne]

Hi Pete

I get you no offence taken! 

You have done a fantastic job of recommissioning if not restoring Katie to the joy of others following this thread and showing how problems can be addressed sensibly. Here's to a hot summer and many an afternoon trip out and a cold beer.

Andy