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Hi Pete

Just a thought but rather than relying on a few threads in the chassis rail why not drill completely through the rail fit a long nuts, washers and bolts which would give better rigidity.

Andy 

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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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Cheers Andy. If the threads pull out then I may well consider through-drilling and fitting a spacer-tube inside the chassis-rail to prevent it from crushing. But as each of these mounts will be sitting on reinforced-rubber body-washers - the tension on their screw threads ought not be excessive, and the double plate depth of the rear inside corner ought to dissuade those bolts from tilting under shear load.  I cannot see a torque specified in the workshop manual for body mounts but I'd suspect 6 - 8 ft.lb. would be ample ..which is really very little. 

Pete.

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3 hours ago, Bfg said:

  I cannot see a torque specified in the workshop manual for body mounts but I'd suspect 6 - 8 ft.lb. would be ample ..which is really very little. 

Pete.

Torque setting is ....................Tight! ;)

Stuart.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just over a week later and I'm still wrestling with motivation, however 'upset' and poor health (..and yes they are related) have slowed progress..  Still as always ; smalls steps in the right direct are much better than a leap or two backwards (..but more of that later !). 

Having previously worked from the RHS rear wheel-arch, back to the body mount, then forward along the near-side's sill, and across under the spare wheel well.., the delectation to now be relished was to continue with much the same on the LHS (nearside) of the car.  Again my objective was to clean up, to check, and to hold-in-check the condition of the underside of the body tub. Again starting under the (LHS) rear wheel arch. . .

P1410211s.JPG.fad0a67b5bd6872bc186654b40b3e0f7.JPG  P1410212s.JPG.3f2d352d0bb25575147cd9f77e46755e.JPG

^ This is the corner of the inner wheel-arch where it steps over the rear axle / suspension, and like the RHS of the car the thin metal panel of the rounded corner had failed. On the RHS the plate had crack through, whereas on this side it had buckled and was just beginning to crack.  Note the vicinity of the new (TR6 style) body mount immediately adjacent to this corner.  Again I made a thicker doubler plate to fit behind the original corner. Holes are of course for its plug welding.   BTW., the silver paint on the inner wheel-arch inverted bulge (to allow the seat to move 3-1/2" further back) is aerosol zinc spray.  This is useful for spraying into any cricks & crannies, for seeing more clearly into corners, and of course to prevent ones lungs going rusty ..for years after you're dead !

The rear body mount on this side had already been welded up by a prior owner in much the same way as I did it on the RHS.  And again I added a large thick reinforcement washer to this side for through-bolting the recoil seat belt to.  NB. measured and drilled from the inside of the car, this hole is 10mm further back from the step's edge, because the mounting position of the recoil mechanism is asymmetric. 

- - -

Moving forward was where my discomfort of working on cold paving slabs, in cleaning off the crud and any loose under-seal, as well as my having to weld under a wheel-arch.. turned to my upset.. Having paid a whole lot of money to a "concourse winning restoration body shop" (M&T Classics) to rebuild Katie's  LHS sill, and at the same time to improve that side's rear door gap..  after clearing away the goop (aka ; seam sealer ) I was faced with this . . .

P1410203s.JPG.c2cf4c67e5349fa8a36f226209e780de.JPG      P1410208as.jpg.00f1958734bb29ba7366cd23b127c318.jpg

^ work in progress, as you can see the professional's goop is still over the bottom flange, but the end cap not being attached to the downturn of the floor was (.. I thought) inexcusable. 

For cost reasons, I opted not to have the sill finished in body paint by M&T., but the agreement was that it would be prepared and ready "in (I presumed in a good-quality) primer ready to paint".  That was clearly not what I was seeing.  The second photo more clearly shows how the old outer-sill was cut off through the down-turned flange of the floor, and then a new plate has been tacked in place to restore its dimension to the bottom.  Unfortunately the new plate wasn't quite tall enough, so its spot welding along the bottom became edge tacks (which structurally are not the same).  And, as you can see, its bottom edge didn't come down quite far enough and then slightly raised towards the front.

P1410232s.JPG.2962b078d568160aad62b075cc422bca.JPG   P1410236as.JPG.335b7515d1befbc9b2afa383c1d8a4ac.JPG

^ further forward, as it was.. with no primer but a smear of goop, and yet also clearly evident of their stitch welding (from the outside before the outer sill was fitted) of the extended downturn flange - having blistered the original paint and under-seal away.  This is a shameful example of British workmanship.. with rust initiated from day one.   I hadn't appreciated that despite having paid extra for wax-oil injection - it didn't include the sill. 

2nd photo, after wire brushing. Clearly the flange isn't quite deep enough, in fact for most of the sills length its short by 1/4" (6mm) with 5/16" (8mm) or more in some places. That does not seem a lot, but because the bottom flange of the repro outer-sill-panel is not quite 1/2" (12mm), that inside edge was where spot or plug welds ought to have been.  So instead it's been edge-tacked. Typically these are 1-1/4" to 1-/1/2" (30 - 38mm) apart.  

I'm no authority but my understanding was that DVLA requires welding of structural areas (ie., within 30cm of a body mount) to be of equal specification as original (accepting plugs in lieu of spot welds) or else continuous - so I wouldn't have thought this would pass an MOT.  And yet I have the piece of paper to say that it did.!

For reference, you might compare the (above) work by M&T, with a post from Stuart (last June) where he shows how it ought to be done  < here > . . .         

Marks TR5 271.jpg 

^ Lovely job Stuart, and using a NOS Stanpart panel for better fit.  I'm sure the additional cost of that was saved in fitting and finishing labour costs.  I don't know what the spot welding is in the inside of the end cap though.

 Moving to the front ..of Katie's  newly rebuilt sill, and things get no better . . .

P1410258as.JPG.e23ac003d6a6cb0118c00820ace331ee.JPG    P1410276as.JPG.e9f8ffbbfaeb91e114c9868471a6d25f.JPG

^ More goop, which when wire brushed out revealed no weld between the bulkhead and the sill's end cap.  (NB the bulkhead repair appears old / done by a previous owner).  I simply cannot understand why the welder should not have done this, while he was already here with his welder.  

For the time being I have welded the end caps, front and rear.  But before going further  I'm in a quandary as to whether I should do more to improve what's been done along the inside and bottom edge, or else to remove the outer sill and the new down-turned flange and to rebuild them, or to just leave it as is ?   The outer sill visually aligns well from the side view,  but that panel's fit or incorrect shape means the bottom-relief of the wings (front and rear, which steps out from the bottom of the door line) now sit 3/8" 10mm wider than the sill (..just seen in light-yellow colour primer to the right of the above photo).  Before the car went to Wolverhampton, the old outer sill was a decent shape between these panels, it was only the rear door gap which was wrong.  Now I seem to have paid a huge amount of money to replace one problem with another.  

When I spoke to Mark about this panel alignment (..before I noted the inadequate welding) he said, and I paraphrase.. "the front and rear wings were probably repro and so the alignment would never be great, and that ..had they been painting the sill, they would have first lead-loaded the panel to correct its shape".  3/8" thick lead weighting down the length of one sill, huh !   I didn't argue the matter that I'd expected the agreed 'in primer ready for paint'.

- - -

And now for something completely different . . .

While under the car getting myself filthy, but nevertheless making slow but steady progress cleaning up fraying paint edges and otherwise checking that things were pretty much as they were supposed to be, I spotted this ..

P1410256s.JPG.40026e742c9b1756225c2b14bf0c121b.JPG

^ Note the lower wishbone mountings.  I couldn't believe my eyes. The chassis was sold as upgraded "with all the usual strengthening mods done".  And Katie's  suspension was removed, and cleaned up before being swapped from the old chassis to this one, and yet despite the bolt holes being there (and that M&T have a huge stock of TR parts on their shelves) the lower wishbone brackets had not been swapped for two-stud ones.  Not even decent sized backing plates or washers. And to then to have reused the nyloc nuts ? 

From a restoration company that professes to be TR specialist, Is it not professional-incompetence to not even ask the customer if he would want these changed.?  After all, even to a cheapskate - what is the cost of a set of used 2-stud TR6 brackets and eight new nylocs ?  ...after spending such a huge amount of money to have the chassis upgraded, so the car would be safe.  If I said no, then be it upon my head, but them to say nothing, and for the sake of £30 (retail) to not swap those brackets . . . is unbelievable  

It gets even better though . . .

P1410247s.JPG.bbd380e9578cb8c24c1020711cf62c7a.JPG

^ on the left hand side, rear lower wishbone mount - this chassis had already had one of the brackets ripped out.  The plate welded over the top of the hole has two stud holes.  And Mark knew and saw this himself, because he hand-painted this chassis with the POR-15 I'd supplied.

As an engineer I consider patching over the top of a ripped-out plate to be very poor practice.  Much better to cut out the damage and to inspect everything very closely to see if there are any hairline cracks or other damage that wouldn't otherwise be apparent.  But I can appreciate that many an unschooled mechanic might weld a similar thickness of plate over the top and think that must be as strong as it was.   

And with honest regard for the few who do think beyond their immediate eye line, the typical unschooled mechanic misses the consequences. . .

P1410263s.JPG.983fa21130556e6dca277211a7ce045c.JPG   

^ with a plate slapped onto the face of just one chassis mounting, the wishbone bush bracket sits 1/8" further out, and so it's no longer in axial alignment with the front wishbone bush.  And that twist of the lower wishbone would take its wheel hub mounting / king-pin further forward, which in turn effects the castor angle. This might be compensated by packing out the front bush mounting, but then does that still work with the wheel's camber.?  

As it is this side of the suspension has be reassembled with no packing / spacer(s) in the front bush bracket, so (likewise twisted) each bush will be prone to accelerated wear.  Conversely the RHS of the car has two spacers (each 1/16" ?) under both brackets - which I gather is usual.    

As I've now been working on the gearbox or under the car pretty consistently since she came back in July, I'm rather very upset that the task list has again been added to.    My objective was to get the underside of the body shell painted and the body mounts all back in place by the end of January, so that I might get back to putting the car's interior in, and then get on with fitting the surrey top.  But now I'm faced with both the sill and with replacing the wishbone brackets.  I've never done the job, but I'm certain it'll not be just-a-five-minute-job ..when working outside in February.

I've tried to be very understanding of Mark and how sloppy mechanical practices could slip by unnoticed by him, but following the chassis T-shirt plate being gooped-on rather than welded, failed body mounts, such body-shop issues as the sill, and now being faced with more working under the car / the front suspension - I feel as if I've been caught by my short and curlies again.  I've been trying for the past 12 months to accept a more Stoic / understanding attitude ..but tbh the pent-up upset / frustration is have a noticeable effect on my health.  I don't know what to do about these conflicts, so I bottle things up and get on with what I can. . .

P1410217s.JPG.ffe846b1c2265006b69292603f11424d.JPG    P1410219s.JPG.1a09ec0cfd0db59257b9b76b7dddd82b.JPG

^ The welding on top was not mine, nor the piece of angle iron.  I just cleaned the goop out and welded down the downturn to end cap joint, before flooding everything with zinc ..and then the red.  It's presently a goop-free zone !   The wings will have to come off at sometime to keep their condition in check, but I'm hoping not to do that this winter.

P1410244as.JPG.c667cdc23899ca9e8bdca5470d6df9c4.JPG

^ until I decide what to do, I've again sprayed crevices with zinc and brushed in the red.  I have absolutely no problem with tearing that paint off again if and when I choose to do something more with this 'issue'.  It may seem illogical to leave it, but for the meantime - I just need to move on. 

P1410279as.JPG.639117936496d1d8e83fb93f1b09fe0c.JPG   P1410282s.JPG.7dd3bc2ebaad3140b1427de979aaa482.JPG

^ Similarly with with the front of the sill, the front body mounts, all the edges around the inner arches, which restored 22+ years ago were in remarkably very good condition, but now in need of a little TLC ..to help keep the damp out.

The front valance panel had a fixing screw missing, one along the top of the RHS front wing likewise, and then also the three wing to A-post fastenings were left out too. 

And so it goes on.. I am so (physically) tired.

- - -

Progress yes, but two leaps backwards as well.

I bid you warmth in your home, good fare on the table, and a peaceful state of mind.

Pete.

 

Edited by Bfg
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Hi Pete

Not good!! I agree workmanship from MT very poor I know you should not be putting things right as you've paid good money for a "specialist" to carry out repairs just goes to show there's still cowboys giving us old school mechanics a bad name makes my blood boil .Keep going Pete its worth it in the end 

Chris    

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Im afraid I come across stuff like this all the time Pete, oh and if your wondering about the spot weld points on the sill end cap thats actually where the end of the spot welder arm touched a few times while spot welding the end caps on. :lol:

That drop section of floor/lower inner sill area being cut off short is just an amateur way of probably getting rid of the last inch or so of it that was rusty rather than repairing it properly with a new section, its doesnt actually take long to do that with the outer sill off.

The quip about the wings being repro is cobblers its the repro sills that are causing the problem and take careful work to get them to fit especially in the area where the wings fit round. Again its amateurish.

Stuart.

 

Marks TR5 225.jpg

Marks TR5 229.jpg

Edited by stuart
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1 hour ago, stuart said:

That drop section of floor/lower inner sill area being cut off short is just an amateur way of probably getting rid of the last inch or so of it that was rusty rather than repairing it properly with a new section, it doesn't actually take long to do that with the outer sill off.

quite agree, 

IMG_2459.jpg.45b0ab66e04b14f4cf089d05d9c7a82c.jpg   IMG_2461.jpg.657146b49d513bc0a34271a2a3243d5c.jpg    IMG_2460.jpg.a284a856486e27d5f7d66421c8ae6d7f.jpg

^ As she was after being cleaned up.  It's not nearly as bad as I'm sure many you've seen, but I agree with cutting off the frayed from spot welding edge, and replacing that with good strong steel.  It's just a shame that having got the depth wrong that they didn't just take that extension piece off and make it 10mm too deep ..and then cut any surplus off at the bottom level with the outer sill .

Might I ask..  if it were your own car for driving rather than showing, would you leave it, or what course of action would you take..?   And/or, as far as you can ascertain from the photos you've seen - do you think it would pass an MOT and is safe and roadworthy ?   

I do appreciate the answer would probably be  "if I were you I wouldn't start from here".  But as you see.. here I am.

cheers,  Pete

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It wouldn’t be easy but I would be inclined to seam weld all the way along as there’s just enough left to do that, also the same around the end caps then it’s all solid at least, also drill some holes for drainage just above the seam. From the original pictures I would have just replaced the whole of the lower 2-3” of that section and had done with it then you could spot weld the new sill on properly.

Stuart.

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Evening Pete

Having looked at the Pics Pete I'd have suggested the same as Stuart. I'm just glad he has suggested the same solution first! It will be solid enough and as now hidden once you go over with seam sealer and shultz again, as for drain holes I cut extra slots in the outside face against the downturn. For what its worth I also cut 15mm holes in the ends of each sill cap for a rubber grommets so I could pump Bonda Rust in through a 500ml syringe and tube attached to fill the bottom seam with paint which crept between the seams same process with the door bottoms. Then flood with wax which I'm yet to do. Not OEM but will make regular wax injection a doddle for you without too much effort in the future.

I guess you are going to replace the wish bone brackets. 

If was me I'd have a break form it all as you are obviously upset by it all for a week or two and work on her when the weather is better its going to be a bit of a marathon. Given the pictorial evidence of shoddy work you have paid for here and above consider asking for some recompense to help you put things right.

Andy

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Thank you both. I'm grateful for your advice and will sleep on the options presented.  Drain holes yes indeed.  I had noted the grommeted holes in the end caps, from another thread ..and liked the idea. But then Katie already has TR5/6 inner sills with vent slots in their top, through which I can pour paint and inject wax-oil.  

Part of the modus-operandi decision has to bear in mind that my own welding skills are not up to doing a neat four-ft-long continuous seam-weld, at arm length while laying under the car  ..and I'll not be happy with things being still uglier.

The wishbone brackets will definitely be replaced for two stud ones. And at the time, when the springs are removed and access is better, I'll probably strip off the chassis paint locally ..to inspect for cracks and also the alignment of the chassis brackets.  Otherwise a couple of spacers behind the front wishbone bracket may work if the camber angle is within tolerance.

Taking a break, aside from a day or two ..if I can sleep for 48-hours, is not a good option.  With working outside - February and March weather has to be worked around as best I can, otherwise the car will not be available for use this summer either..  In April, I'm determined to restart working on my old boat.  Either I get that seaworthy and moved to a cheaper marina or I'll be faced with getting rid of it as an unfinished project and I'll just have to swallow the losses.  In short, I cannot justify keep spending £-thousands on boat storage year after year, irrespective of Covid, moving house, a classic car, medical conditions, or for any other reason.  Either it become a viable / usable proposition this year or it's best to simply get rid of it.  

The same applies to Katie  (..and/or the prospect of any other classic car).  Either it become usable within the foreseeable future or it'll just have to go.  A full 12 months working in and under this car and spending another £10,000 over and above its purchase price was not the plan.  I simply cannot allow that to go on to for a second year.  Is that gearbox going to be OK, and I still have not even changed the engine-oil, let alone dealt with its low oil pressure.  Aside from the fact that the carbs are simply worn out, I have no idea what awaits me on that front.  And then the car's wiring ought to be thoroughly checked through. It wasn't done properly 22 years ago and so I'd guess there's unreliability or a fire about to happen. 

From what I gather, my seeking recompense is likely to be a time & money pit of further anxiety and lengthy frustration.  What has been done is of dubious quality (..in my opinion) but any such dispute comes down to proving a significant breach of contract &/or wrong doing.  I can present what I've written down and the drawings I made, and M&T will simply counter each point with something like "it was discussed and we agreed" whereas from my perspective view the understand was significantly different. But how does one categorically prove things one way or another .?  Law  is a rule book of procedure and evidence.  Especially in civil cases, right or wrong has very little to do with the outcome.

I could however report the MOT station / inspector for their turning a blind eye., and present the DVLA with a very long list of faults with my car at the time. But inevitably they'll just say that I haven't followed 'correct procedure',  and the car should have been checked by another MOT station or an approved independent engineer, and all this should have happened long before six months later..  Even then, will it really make any difference ? Certainly I'd not expect anything (not even the £40 cost of the MOT test) in terms of recompense.  So again it'll just be a very time consuming and frustrating hiding to nothing.  

Am I a pessimist ?  ..well I wasn't when I was a young man.

Pete

 

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Hi Pete, super frustrating for sure. I think the best option is the welding as suggested, have you got a auto darkening welding mask? I found this the biggest improver of my welding as I could see what I was doing so much better, and obviously practice before doing the actual job. 

Changing those brackets out whilst not a quick job, is pretty straight forward, even more so as it's already been apart recently. 

Don't let it get to you, fix it and move on, you've got this. 

Gareth

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You're probably right to be pessimistic Pete its just an all too frequent occurrence with a lot of services people pay for only to find the resolution too painful and expensive to pursue hence poor practice continues.

As Gareth says keep going and I've no doubt you will get there in the end. Auto dimming mask a great idea just get the best you can afford or borrow.

Andy

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Hi Pete,

Looking back at what you did already on the car, i would hold strong and keep going.  You have great technical advise here are we are all lucky that parts are available for TR cars without too much trouble.

I also went into a lot of trouble since i bought mine last year in May, it took me 4 months to fix the paperwork, then we realised master cylinders were dead and fluid has been leaking badly so we had to respray the engine bay, change all brake lines, etc... Then we had to change all rubbers on the suspension, and as on your car, the left suspension only had one stud bracket and it was moving, while the right had the 2 studs brackets, and this on a car that was supposed to be 100% correct. And the liste goes on. 

Don't give up Pete, you will get there !

 

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Hi Pete,

I'm sure that many of us have been both inspired by the way that you have tackled the issues on your car as well as being saddened by the experience that you have had.

My first Morgan was a 4 seater CVH engined car that I bought at a good price from someone who was sold a pup. He'd bought it for himself as a 50th birthday present with a fresh MOT and shiny paint. His first job was to book it into a Ford garage to have the timing belt done. It came back with a long list of fairly serious faults all of which should have been MOT fails. So he began digging and found a series of 3 or 4 fails (one of which mentioned woodworm!) followed by a pass, all from different garages. He tried to sue the seller and got nowhere, he tried to get DVLA involved and they were unhelpful so in the end he declared all the faults in an advert and sold the car at an appropriate price.

The whole experience was so heartbreaking for him, but it sounded as if the failure to get anywhere with the law or with DVLA only increased his frustration. it's a tough call when it looks as if someone will get away with poor work.

The car will be 'yours' in every sense when you've done it, 

 

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Thank you Gents ..although I'll continue to cuss about having to crawl under the car to correct things - I just have to accept that things which might, and perhaps even ought to, be flagged or else should have been done, were simply not.  'Why' is almost irrelevant to me, that is a matter for Mark to address, should he feel the need to do so. 

Unless one has absolutely everything down in writing and signed by both parties, the client to service-provider emails and face-to-face discussions & telephone conversations amounts to nothing more than "a sort-of-understanding"  ..which may interpreted in different ways to according to one's perspective.  Thankfully, although frustrating, no harm was done by way of road-accident, nor injury, nor even further damage to the vehicle.    

As as design-engineering professional in the automotive and then marine industries, I was subject to professional ethics & due diligence, whereby if I was even concerned about the safety of the item I was working on (whether or not I was responsible for those aspects of the design) I was expected, nay obliged, to bring my concerns to the manager or a Director's attention.  If it was a potentially very serious matter - then I'd make sure there was a paper trail, which aside from covering my own donkey.. also encouraged the Manager to pass that concern upwards to cover his !  When working on design of seriously-offshore sailing vessels there were many instances where vessel and life might be put at risk (in the Southern oceans even large sailing yachts can roll over, loose their mast and otherwise become awash).   Still, I know as a matter of fact that, many of those concerns were never acted upon, as was evident in the keel dropping off a certain 82 Oyster yacht ..and the vessel quickly sinking.   So even in that white-collar-professional environment the system didn't work (..thankfully there are better procedures in the aircraft industry !). 

Very likely, because I had a long career of such responsibility and working to such ethics, my expectations of a farm-building restoration company were unreasonable, not least because my 'understanding' and theirs were as if in a different language. 

I simply have to accept it, try to learn from the experience, and to move on. 

But that doesn't mean I won't get pretty verbal now and then.!  Yesterday I was again contorting my ungainly and aged bulk underneath to wield the potentially lethal cutting-disk grinder (it is very intimidating :( ), and then to be laying under the sometimes splattering weld ..so was my language reflected not the sweet and full of the joys of springtime.

P1410327s.JPG.5d311eee324274c845907a7d1199def4.JPG

^ In setting the body back down onto its mounts, I'd discovered was that the rear exhaust bracket was sitting too high and so the body tub (actually the spare wheel well) was resting upon it.  With the body jacked up, but still less than 3/4" above it, and with working around the exhaust silencer, it either had to be reduced in height or else removed.  Lessening its height wouldn't work for the bolt to the exhaust strap and so I decided to cut that bracket off ..which was welded to the top of the cross tube ..

P1410325s.JPG.c2d7ba4aa14f2c6dd39a729bc681edd0.JPG    P1410326s.JPG.ab41e0185a7435821c09adeabbefa695.JPG

^ Awkward little bracket and vicious high speed grinder (not to mention the white hot sparks !)

P1410331s.JPG.8c0996b3901c36fac5cc2f280ee75edf.JPG   P1410332s.JPG.6d6ebee428eb535248a82e0f254d7092.JPG

^ same bracket reshaped to be 3/8" (10mm) lower, and then re-welded in place.

P1410335s.JPG.ab1d4d326e94ad6bd871cbed07d150d7.JPG

^ repainted with POR-15 and the red underside of the body also touched up.  

The other side was easier because it had been welded on at a cock . . .

P1410323s.JPG.c0d6bbf25671a7edb9f42c65ad63a266.JPG   P1410334s.JPG.dd50d447ead30604831c5303ed56a200.JPG

^ On this side the rear inside corner of the bracket was digging in, so I simply cut that corner off, cleaned things up and repainted it.

Another 5-miute job done ..that literally took me 2 hours.

- - -

Next job was the bottom LHS rear wing fastening to the sill.

Its new spire clip was snapped into pieces. With a strong magnet and small screwdriver I managed to retrieve three of its bits out. I think one piece is still inside. I'll be painting and then wax-oiling within the sill so that should stop it rattling.  I cleaned up an old but good spire clip to replace it and repainted that with zinc, but when I came to fit it discovered it would not fit . . .

P1410317s.JPG.62379dcb3d34d75c7f82109f66689b81.JPG

^ just inside the round screw hole you'll see the sill's end cap. The distance between this and the hole is insufficient to get a clip in there and for it sit flat.  Of course, without it sitting flat, then when the body screw is tightened.. the clip snaps.  I don't yet know how to deal with this, particularly as the screw hole needs if anything to go backwards, even closer to the sill's end cap. 

Hey ho, such fun we have.

Pete

 

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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Something not right there Pete with the end of that sill where the clip hole is situated as the end cap should be a fair bit further back than that. See below and theyre repro sills not genuine ones.

Stuart.

 

Tonys TR6 140.jpg

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Difficult to tell but Ive never had that problem come up before. I suppose you could just grind a little off the inside end of the clip

Stuart.

 

Marks TR5 245.jpg

Marks TR5 270.jpg

Edited by stuart
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1 hour ago, stuart said:

Difficult to tell but Ive never had that problem come up before. I suppose you could just grind a little off the inside end of the clip

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart, as you wrote I was bodging !   I reasoned, with the splits for the thread..  it would probably crack to the trimmed end (don't know because I didn't try that). Instead I bent the inside end further back on itself, using needle / long-nose vice grips to do that. The part of the tread nearest the double-back snapped off when I put the screw in, but because the bit I'd curled back reduced the hole size.. it works.   

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^ horribly crude, but I'll come back to it another time.

Cheers, Pete.

 

 

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Just a short report this evening, mostly because I spent part of the day catching up with putting things back together, like refastening the offside front wing where I had its lower screws out ..to paint into the crevices, and of course re-hanging the exhaust silencer and adjusting its clamps so the pipe doesn't clonk the tunnel.

My task this afternoon was to get on with refitting the body to the chassis, which is again sitting on four wheels ..albeit still on the ramps so I can crawl under the car.  

P1410307s.JPG.137e58fb53211f0b4644ff0250a96116.JPG    P1410308s.JPG.2dadf1d0c68330b86961c9910ee0ff24.JPG

^ fussy as I am, I didn't like the main body mounts now each being three layers of relatively soft rubber. There were no mid-layer plates in those mounts, and the new rubber is without reinforcement mesh ..so when compressed its thickness easily squashes down as the rubber tries to squidge out the sides ..as is evident in the shape of their holes (second photo) ..after just 6-months / 250miles.  Katie's  old chassis showed clear evidence of where the body and chassis had chafed together - locally taking the paint off each, and undoubtedly adding to the squeaks, rattles and the humdrum of vibration type noises.

These are not isolation body mounts ( Isolastic type), but if I understand the design correctly - their rubber's give is to accommodate disparities in angle &/or surface shape in the bracket on the sill / body panel and the chassis.  2-3mm is thick enough to do that.  The soft rubber is also a weather seal inbetween the underside of the car and its interior.  Sandwiched Inbetween these two rubber 'gaskets' would be spacer(s) ..I'm guessing in steel. That's not what I have now nor what I had previously. 

Rather than refit whatever there was (seemingly numerous horseshoe shaped spacers), I opted to measure again . . .

P1410311s.JPG.786a3aee2aff4ff3a2d9ed307b415ef2.JPG    P1410314s.JPG.0e9f4bc9ed739495ddfdb1ab1ab8ef4a.JPG

^ I set the body on the chassis without any  mounts in place. Instead it sat on six little packing pieces of 3mm thick hardboard. These were placed on the chassis just under the edge of the bulkhead, and again on the corner-reinforcement-plates at either end of both trailing-arm chassis rails. The doors gaps are as they were, and the doors open and close well ..now that the nearside anti-burst plate is lubricated !  Measuring and recording (2nd photo below) each body mount / the gap between the body and the chassis, I could then determine what packing was actually needed.

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^ I had lots of rubber & spacers parts to choose from, as Mark was very good in returning the bits taken off the car, when replaced with new.  The old body mounts were all (fabric) reinforced rubber and generally a tad thicker than the new so I could select what & where was to be fitted.  

I started with loosely fitting the two front mounts (one on either side of the radiator) and then those at the end of each rear outrigger. Even with loose bolts, those helped keep the alignment square. But before fitting the central body tub's mounts, I wanted to fit some rubber strip under the floors.  M&T seemed to have forgotten them, even though a roll of the rubber appears in one of Mark's photos.  Nevertheless I had a roll of 2mm thk x 30mm wide neoprene rubber which although pretty soft I felt would do the job well. 

image2s.jpeg.4466a84b14f0a1abc18876e919ebd5f3.jpeg

^ my old chassis is typical of many photos I've seen (as a body is lifted off) where the body-chassis mounting strips are only rested upon by the deeper pressing of the floor, and then only occasionally.  So again, me being me, I did things my own way. . .

P1410338s.JPG.6bc810af05d2f4d9bf7d51ea663860cb.JPG   P1410343s.JPG.ebf57cb30ec1bc4417a8c0c0ddd2a404.JPG

^ short strips being cut to fit under the pressings where they cross over the chassis rails. Doing this under the car ..as evening turned to darkness, and feeding the sticky-backed neoprene in the 3/4" gap between the body and chassis didn't make it a quick operation, but the fiddling around to peel the backing paper off each little length took me longer than fitting them.! 

An extra pair of hands would have been helpful to un-peel the backing and, only then, to cut each length. Then of course to pass them down to you under the car. As indeed would have marking the underside of the body tub (where the chassis sits) and to do all this .. before the body was fitted.  Including sorting thicknesses and now having loose-fitted the central mounting rubbers, the task took me 2 hours ..for one side.

I've lowered the body now and I'm confident these neoprene strips will work well.  None of the mounting bolts are screwed in more than a few threads (because I need to lift the near-side floor tomorrow to do the same), but already the tin-plate of the floor panel sounds very much duller.  Even though the strips barely touch the chassis, clearly it is cushioned. With the extra surface area of these strips, versus the original short lengths fitted in just a few places, it ought to stand up to wear pretty well. Time will tell.

That's it for tonight, so I bid you a pleasant evening.

Pete.

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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great work Pete!

I use quite a lot of double sided materials and sometimes its easier to peel the backing off, move it along 10mm and put back on again, this way you get a tab at one end to re-peel under more difficult circumstances.

Also, you can take the backing off something wider, like carpet tape or self adhesive vinyl and then place your peeled product onto this and use as a carrier?

And if the neoprene is thick enough I've sometimes "stabbed it" with a scalpel (or even a length of wire) on the edge and use as a handle to hold/position before sticking in place :wacko:

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Thanks Nigel, good ideas..  I will try moving the paper-backing along or slightly to one side before cutting.  Yesterday I was did multiple sit-ups, because getting the backing to start peeling seemed thrice as difficult when laying twisted on my side under the car. So I'd have to twist out the side, sit up and then using a small electrical screwdriver and my thumb nails to peel the backing, before dropping back down and wiggling across to where I could see, adjust the LED lamp which seemed intent on shining in my eyes more than where pointed, and then fiddle to place the now curled and sticky short length of neoprene.   People pay good money for gym membership. Perhaps they ought to buy a Triumph instead ! B)

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Hi Pete, I’m just under Brenda just doing checks, still enjoying your posts and boy you are having to do some jobs on a car that should of been ready for a check over by you and then be good to go. Hopefully you will be done soon then you can get out and enjoy Katie. I tend to use a head torch when under the car as it lights up where my eyes are pointing. Keep up the good work and hope we will meet up some time. 
 

Mike redrose group 
 

2A6E67A3-CBD8-4B29-A314-19A867759879.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, BRENDA1 said:

Hi Pete, I’m just under Brenda just doing checks, still enjoying your posts and boy you are having to do some jobs on a car that should of been ready for a check over by you and then be good to go. Hopefully you will be done soon then you can get out and enjoy Katie. I tend to use a head torch when under the car as it lights up where my eyes are pointing. Keep up the good work and hope we will meet up some time.

Mike redrose group 
2A6E67A3-CBD8-4B29-A314-19A867759879.jpeg

Thanks Mike, ;) Yes I had one of those and found it sorta useful but for when wearing a hat (under the car to keep crud out my hair) or a welding mask.  Must order another as mine fell apart.  I wonder if my local  GO-Outdoors still have a sale on ? 

"a check over by you and then be good to go"  was a funny little reminder (..in some respects :blink:) because when i went up and did a pre-collection check, I presented them with a 25 item list to correct before I took the car away. Although it was a long way to go, to do what I considered someone else's job - one item in particular made it worthwhile - I'm convinced it was useful to have oil in the differential. Certainly it was much quieter the next time I drove the car.!

Hey ho., that's fading into history now.  My present mindset is very much more positive, ie., just accept it and move on.  After all.. I must to be close to having found everything (chassis, body and suspension related) by now !!  ...aren't I ?   So I've just to work through these last few things.  And then I can start on engine preventative maintenance.  In the meantime, I'm prioritizing what I feel is urgent and what can wait for a year, and I also try not to get too distracted into pursuing my wish list.  Again those things must wait for another day.

Well done with Brenda.  Keep up your checks, good maintenance and extensive ..I guess mostly trouble free, trips out.  You set a great example to us all.  default_grinning-smiley-043.gif

Pete

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Ha, I got a beany/woolly hat for Christmas that has a flat type LED torch fitted to the front of it and can be detached for washing ( the hat that is!)

I also have an LED torch like thing that clips to the front edge of a baseball cap/hat and found this especially good when looking at maps whilst its raining!

 

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