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The rearward movement problem you have encountered is yet another reason I dont like those adaptor brackets. I f you make up the brackets as detailed on the Technicalities CD and follow the instructions on modifying the runners to suit then you have full movement all the way back to the point where the seat back contacts the wheel arch and the height is correct for pretty much everyone, you are also still using the original floor mounting captives so no modification required. The other bonus of fitting the seats this way is it only takes a couple of minutes to remove both should the need arise.

Stuart.

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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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Posted (edited)

Good Idea Ian, Thanks.  I was waiting to drive the car with these seats in to assess whether I needed more under thigh support (ie., to tilt the base).  As it happens with the front brackets reversed, and the rear bracket altered the MX5 seat runners now clear the original seat fixing bolts.

 

On 12/29/2021 at 9:15 PM, Steves_TR6 said:

Nice write up there Pete, i’m leaning towards mx5 seats and so this was very helpful!

steve

Thanks Steve,  Being honest.. I'd caution you to swapping for MX5 seats ..if you don't really have a problem with your TR6 seats.  I realise that the Mazda seats seem to have a reputation of being even better than sliced multi-grain super-seeded bread - fresh from the baker's oven ..but my own first impressions is that I might have made a mistake in getting these. :o   How often do you hear that ! ?  :P 

I'm certainly glad that I didn't spend much more, before trying them in my own car and living with them for everyday use.  That is something I yet need to do, as my car is otherwise still part dismantled and so I'll not rush off down the lanes to try them out.  However ingress and getting out again is not only an issue for someone of my stature &/or of greater girth, but also for many of us as we ..&/or our partners, become less agile.  Indeed Bob sold me this car, in part, because his good lady struggled to get in and out of it, and so it became less and less used over recent years.  Steve., you're some 8-years younger than myself and so I hope considerably more agile than us, but I'm sorry - that will not always be the case.  And anyway, your TR6 seats most likely already have adjustable back rake ?

The MX5 seats are in effect reclining bucket seats, and while lateral support is both helpful and reassuring for when fast driving and cornering, they are also more difficult to get in and out of.  And for some of us, that effects just jumping in the car to pop around to the shops ..which is what we expect of a daily driver.   Not only is the base squab a bit lower, so the sill height appears higher to get one's feet and legs over, but its side bolsters lessen the ease of being able to slide out.  The bolsters of my TR4A seats offered too little in terms of lateral support around corners because when I moved my weight onto them they flattened down. However that (and their slippery Vynide) enabled me to swing around and slide out more easily. 

For extra-tall or extra-girth persons the 'issue' is then worsened . . .

P1400873s.JPG.a2bb5d6f5ed8554a11c48bbd8f146284.JPG   P1400874s.JPG.a081c2333c69c2de8a52782f837790e7.JPG

^ even with this seat moved back, we are still confronted by this dimension.  Here again the seat back's side bolster gives excellent lateral support when driving / cornering, but it has a steel plate under the padding which simply doesn't give.  So again, whereas the TR seat's lack of lateral support allowed me to lean my body back over the driveshaft tunnel.. bucket seats have practically no give.  This dimension measures almost 36" ..with the seat back hard against the wheel arch, and without the door panel on.  Perhaps you might sit on a hard chair and measure how far you can pull your shoe's toe towards the chair's fixed backrest.!  Bear in mind also that, at the same time, the heel of your shoe needs to be raised to the seat base height to get over the car's door seal.  You'll note my window winder is wound to a 3-o'clock position, because that too is in the way.  

In short, although I hoped when buying these Mazda seats that they would give me and my passenger much better support while driving, It hadn't registered with me how close to a sports bucket-seat they might be  ..and how that might effect the ease and convenience of using the car on a daily basis ..which to my mind necessitates simply slipping in & out of the car to pop into a shop or when stopping for fuel, etc.

I will give them a fair try, but ask me in six months time how I got on with them ...and whether I'll be changing them ? :unsure:  ..for reclining TR6 seats !    

Hope that helps, again it's just my first impressions, which I'm sure others would strongly disagree with.

Happy TR'ing New Year,

Pete

p.s.  if it's of relevance the Mazda seats feel half as heavy again as the TR4A seats. Both together they add up, although of course not in a place where it might noticeably effect the car's centre of gravity.  And their backrest tilt forward for access into the rear's dog seat space.  If you do have a dog or use the seat for a child then I would think the TR4's seat, which tilts up the base too, and so exposes the car's floor, would be easier. Most likely for vacuuming the carpet under the seat too.

 

 

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Happy New Year Pete and thanks for the comprehensive additional write up.

some of your concerns do ring true, although we are both very fit and mobile at the moment who knows jow long that will last!

i’ve sat in a couple of sets of refurbished mx5 seats in TR6s and in both cases found them easy enough to get in and out of.

i wonder if the new /refurbished/thicker padding masks the ‘bucket’ shape that is giving you challenges ?

i’m baulking at the £700+ for the beautiful seats from Paul Bishop, my car just isnt that nice….. my main desires from any new seats are better support and comfort 

think i’ll try to have a drive or two in someones car equipped with mx5 seats, I did go out in Dave’s when we were working on it but was too focussed on the ignition/pi issues to contemplate the seats much.

thanks again for all the info Pete

steve

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Posted (edited)

Agreed Steve, what you say about new/ refurbished/ thicker padding may indeed lessen the bucket effect. It may of course just be my skinny xxxx and slightly too great a mass sinking into them :D   Certainly trying other cars is best bet before committing your wallet to such a diet. 

This afternoon I did just a little more to help my own jack-in-a-box-like syndrome, by altering the inner wheel arch . . .

 P1400878s.JPG.c29f9ae7f28e4788535fddc299e26974.JPG     P1400880as.jpg.f6009cbe55439c65e97969549c3cb4d5.jpg

^ with the seat hard back ; I felt and marked with tape as far as my finger would squeeze in. And then peeled back the cover to reshape the metal.  I did it progressively so that the convex bonged inwards to be a concave shape, and that went well, but after refitting the seat again I found that I needed the dint to go 2" further down, to clear the now moved back backseat tilt mechanism.  Hey ho., just an opportunity to do it again tomorrow !   

I also redrilled the front adapter plate to try the seat 1" (25+mm) towards the door.  Now I know that sounds contradictory to the issue I have in getting my big feet passed the open door, and also that my arm is already hard against the door (..and shoulder against the hood frame), but I reasoned that moving the seat outwards would square me up a little better with the offset steering-wheel and pedals, and that in turn would lessen the twist to my back when I'm in the seat. These things are always a compromise and, for the sake of just two holes in the adapter plate, it was worth a try. 

It worked better than I might have hoped insomuch as the improvement was quite apparent. Together with the gain in leg length, the driving position is more comfortable for me.  And for the first time, I feel that I have half-decent leg room under the dash & around Katie's  15" steering wheel

    ...well at least 'half-decent' for someone who's 6ft-5" :ph34r: . . .

 

P1400885as.jpg.44287f9d1c2cff4ba868edb5641e1eeb.jpg      P1400882as.jpg.2d69706af6b832841b89d6408e1481ee.jpg

^ You can see here that although my legs cannot go straight, the under-dash clearances are good and it is a comfortable / relaxed leg position. This is while wearing steel-toe-cap work shoes that have 3/4" thick soles and 1-3/4" heels, and with my left foot resting on the bulkhead step (where the main-dip switch fits).  Conversely, I recall test-driving my friend Mike's TR4A way-back-when (..as previously reported in these pages) and my knee was literally wedged inbetween the underside of the dashboard (alongside the choke lever), the H-frame and the steering wheel.  Admittedly he did have a USB port screwed under the dash pad, which made things lower by about 3/4", but I now have an honest 2-1/2" clearance under there.  He also had MX5 seats fitted, but the seat couldn't be moved back any more on its runners. 

 

P1400893as.jpg.4e9238c6d44b3a6042f39962f3867c44.jpg

^ For comparison, with each seat right the way back.   This space would appear to be practical for me.

And perhaps because the seat's backrest is further back (giving me more room to straighten and get my leg under the steering wheel)  &/or else because I now find it easier to lean back over the driveshaft tunnel) - it feels a little easier to get in and out of the car.  Worthwhile progress B)

So that's it for tonight.. I hope there's something useful here to anyone else who is in any way 'larger than average'.

Pete

 

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Posted (edited)

This afternoon I did similar alterations to the passenger-side seat adapter plates, and again to that inner-wheel-arch to bring it in line with the driver's seat. ie., 2-3/8" (60mm) further back.

P1400895s.JPG.ad2c88efe67cd02a6182618a6522bba4.JPG    P1400925s.JPG.c59224d9b22da7045bc09930c1ce9972.JPG

^ In the first instance I drilled the floor adapter plate holes 1" further in, as I had on the driver's side. That was a mistake because the Mazda passenger seat has a different offset to its runners.  So I redrill again the outside floor mounting hole (further in). 1st photo ; The larger nut on the floor is where the seat runner's stud would be - with the adapter plate the correct way around, but I chose to reverse it (..to move the seat back by 60mm). I also wanted to move the seat closer to the door by 1" (25mm).  NB. the inside mounting required a small bracket extension to reach the standard Triumph mounting. 

2nd photo ; the rear adapter plate required two additional small extension plates to suit. The inside floor mounting is again back to the original captive nut in the floor. 

Please NOTE ;  the adapter brackets supplied would suit most owners, just as they are.  It is only because of my size that I sought to modify things to gain the extra length and slightly different offset. The task was easy enough, with the adapter plates giving me a useful head-start.

 

P1400897s.JPG.e7dcc72cb53173b75ed3d47cebe2f475.JPG     P1400894s.JPG.9c42907c82b4e124a194e5cf028afc5c.JPG

^ If at all noticed, I've installed these seats slightly skewed relative to the car's centreline. The front mounting of each seat was moved closer to its door by 1" whereas the rear of each seat only moved out 1/2".  That may seem odd, but the reason was to better align the seat back to the asymmetric footwells & offset pedals, and to allow the seat adjuster mechanism to clear the B-post (second photo). There ought to be just enough space for a piece of vinyl trim in there ! :rolleyes:

 

P1400898s.JPG.36d326827d8f02858a71a04ca3abfbd9.JPG   P1400899s.JPG.8e678c6db5c799efbec3b87a5fc9f46a.JPG

^ The LHS rear inner wheel arch was similarly 'altered' in line with the driver's side, but this time I took the concave further down ..so as to clear these seat's tilt mechanism. . .

I further altered the RHS inner wheel arch ..in line with this, so the driver's seat can now move still further back on its runners.

- - -

And so to conclude this subject of fitting MX5 seats, for the Big & Tall, here are a few final dimensions (..taken on the driver's / RH side) . . .

P1400903s.JPG.f4024fc046ba8bca65f29fb867fee60e.JPG    P1400901s.JPG.6e00de9aa5e8cd4939bbb266b2af9569.JPG   P1400900s.JPG.25bdd86b2b5304308435bdec51b8a9e2.JPG

^ From the step on the bulkhead (my left foot rest) to the seat squab is now almost 29" (735mm). And the distance to the corner of the backrest is 48" (122cm).

P1400906s.JPG.a3624d34fc81207649988ccd72fcc9b1.JPG    P1400905s.JPG.bfe13fc98b8b89cc3262ae164960d95c.JPG   P1400904s.JPG.60c708719de779c15f6f49c7f2726dbd.JPG

^ measured from the clutch pedal to the seat squab is now some 25-1/2" (65cm), & the distance to the centre-bottom of the backrest is 45" (114cm). Standard spec (see drawing from a road-test at the bottom of this page) shows max length from pedal to seat squab as 22".  The distance from there to the backrest is 10", so I've increased the overall pedal to seat-backrest-squab distance by 3-1/2". B)  In turn that means I can better straighten my legs to get them under the steering wheel and dashboard.

The seat squab's centre (width), measured at the rear of the handbrake bracket on the driveshaft tunnel, is 12-3/4" (325mm) from the car's centreline.

 

P1400911s.JPG.6989f49e44f99a5b8737839776064303.JPG    P1400924s.JPG.c77fc85f4aaadef1ce2678fee2e63c15.JPG

^ with 1/4" spacers under the front seat runner mounts, the clearance between the underside of Katie's  15" steering wheel to the (uncompressed) squab is about 7" (18cm).  And my own knee clearance under the dashboard padding is a now more than 4" (10cm), with my foot resting against the step of the bulkhead, & when wearing thick soled shoes.   NB., When I drove Mike's TR4A, also fitted with MX5 seats, my leg was wedged tight under the dashboard, between the H-frame and the steering wheel. Admittedly he had a double USB port fitted under there which lessened the height by 3/4" but on the other hand I was wearing brogues with 1/4" thick soles  So thanks to moving the seat runners back / the extra legroom - my leg straightens, to similarly give the equivalent of an additional 3-1/2" inches under dashboard clearance. B)B)

Tomorrow, I'll just be tidying and repainting the brackets and altered inner wheel arches.

Pete

 

P1410018s.JPG.0e703406d95eea8557937688a088945b.JPG

Autocar  - 1965 : TR4A

 

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Not much to report on, so I'll keep it brief . . .

P1410009s.JPG.2ef4da4fdc34d87f095d34eb8b3fc85e.JPG

^ speaks for itself.  This was at 10am, so my working outside was postponed to the afternoon.

P1410002s.JPG.02dcade6245a04e6143ae86e9e9fd72b.JPG

^ amateur restored 22 years ago, so I'm not complaining, but as you can see seam sealer even when over painted with a good quality primer doesn't prevent rust in the corners and panel overlaps.  As I work around the car I'm pulling it out, cleaning out the corners and then painting into them, first with POR-15 or else zinc (cold galvanising) paint, before topcoat.  If then still needs a little seam sealer, I'll do it once that paint has dried.

P1410017s.JPG.3f3bf26520af89f19d9359154c049c3c.JPG

^ little steps, but still progress.

Bidding you a pleasantly warm evening,

Pete.

 

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Good progress again Pete

i’m a shortass at 5’7” so wont have any challenges room wise !

i actually like the later mk3 seats but my investigations lead me to think they are too big for the tr6 and the ones you have are the best compromise.

Steve

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Gents, "slow but steady" is my modus operandi this time of year.  Still looking back it was only 28th November that I still working on the gearbox. And the footwell, after being scraped clean, looked like this. . .

On 11/28/2021 at 4:51 PM, Bfg said:

. . .

P1400451s.JPG.ddcb0cf1206904c0c99bd1420f194fc1.JPG

Whereas this afternoon ..with work in progress on the driver's side, it was looking like this . .

P1410020s.JPG.6e6a2018023efbf5117c6d33961f05d5.JPG

^ Beginning to look more like a restored car now.

Katie's  prior owner(s) had not only used copious amounts of something like 'No more Nails' to secure the felt underlay and carpet, but also numerous self-tapping-screws.  There are possibly 20 or 30 small holes through the floors and, because my welding thin sheet-metal isn't that good, I decided not to weld each up. Instead I've painted the hole's edges and now will use a sealant to close them up.  Having found that my use of C-Tec CT1, as a seam sealer, prevents this white-spirits-based acrylic paint from going off for a month ..on the gearbox cover :blink: ,  I'm presently testing Everflex - Weather Mate, which is a n-butyl acetate compound to see if that proves less "inconvenient" ! 

So getting closer, but I'm not finished yet. :rolleyes:

Pete

 

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38 minutes ago, Bfg said:

Katie's  prior owner(s) had not only used copious amounts of something like 'No more Nails' to secure the felt underlay and carpet, but also numerous self-tapping-screws.  There are possibly 20 or 30 small holes through the floors and, because my welding thin sheet-metal isn't that good, I decided not to weld each up. Instead I've painted the hole's edges and now will use a sealant to close them up.  Having found that my use of C-Tec CT1, as a seam sealer, prevents this white-spirits-based acrylic paint from going off for a month ..on the gearbox cover :blink: ,  I'm presently testing Everflex - Weather Mate, which is a n-butyl acetate compound to see if that proves less "inconvenient" ! 

Hi Pete 

Nice progress despite the rotten weather.

For the holes use "UPOL Tiger Seal" its a grey seam sealer as well and sets like concrete quite quickly.

BW

Andy 

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It was very damp and equally as dull to be working outside today, even under a cover. That, together with a pulled back, led me to find a job in the warm.  Mind you the job I chose to get on with wasn't possibly the best choice for my back.., don't know really because sometimes I find wrapping it up and just getting on with jobs sometimes just works through it  ..we'll see.  

Anyway's up, this afternoon's exertions were to pull the driver's MX5 seat mechanism out ..and to start cleaning the leather . . .

 

P1410023s.JPG.799af82119afd348a9b8fad5cadfccef.JPG    P1410024s.JPG.a9d0876dc376c1141d143bcf54853f2c.JPG

^ four bolts hold the seat back adjuster  / tilt mechanism to the seat squabs, and then one screw, on the other side of the seat back, releases the backrest altogether.  Seen on the window sill (second photo) is that mechanism and its two trim covers. Each have overlapping tabs and a cross-head screw or two to hold them in place. The screws are removed and then the covers can be wriggled out over the bolster's padding.

  P1410032s.JPG.39db06d765f117d84e7a1b393d88b7d3.JPG     P1410033s.JPG.95fa6f1d7baddf865cba3e1cc39ad63c.JPG

^ Seat runners were removed because ultimately I'll be taking the leather cover off the seat to replace a couple of pieces of its foam padding. I had already started cleaning the base pan of its light surface rust and giving it a pretty coat of zinc, so I'll do more of that when the covers are off.  However, having been freshly painted, it then revealed the diamond shaped scuff marks, from the TR's floor as the seat was moved back and forth. The adapter plates are just 1/8" (3mm) thick and even though the car's floors are slightly bowed downwards, it looks as if I might want to spacer the back of the seats up, by just a 1/4". 

Moving on to the task in hand . . .

P1410036s.JPG.1768045e2431b34ffe3b582e5d3a2970.JPG     P1410037s.JPG.21b42763f0978a9a3d99982e53add545.JPG

^ The light grey better reflects the light amount of dirt on these seats ..after all they came from a breaker, so who knows what the condition the car was in. 

I'm sure many of you have seen the " remarkable " cleaning properties of bespoke leather and fabric cleaners.  Well - I didn't use them ! :P

 

P1410038s.JPG.2fd92b4ef435735f05e36e21290c8250.JPG

^ I started with a relatively-dry nail-brush and a tiny dab of washing-up-liquid ..first wipe.  I followed that with a light scrub of kitchen degreaser (..I was introduced to Sgrassatore Universale  ' Formato Professionale '  ..when I was preparing to restore my Citroen Ami-Super in Slovenia, and was so impressed with it that, when I got back to the UK., I ordered 5l. of it from Italy). 

Again I used just a tiny amount on a relatively dry nail-brush.  And because that doesn't froth, I followed it up with soap (..to lift out the degreaser).  Yep, that was really posh stuff too.. from Aldi's basic range.

Each stage was wiped off with an old washing-up sponge and clean warm water.  And to finish off ..just another quick scrub with another tiny dab of washing up liquid. I did this to minimise any residue of soap in the leather. That again was wiped over / rinsed off with the sponge and clean water. 

Throughout I tried to keep things as dry as I could, particularly because the squab's leather is perforated, but on the side bolsters (which have no such perforations) I could let things get a little " frothy man "..   Each stage was wiped dry with an old cotton, clean T-shirt.

P1410048s.thumb.JPG.bbea354fda56bae2162fabd45eca9bb0.JPG

^ cleaned with ordinary household / ordinary kitchen products.  No particularly strong chemicals, and soap and washing-up bubbles to wipe the dirt out the leather's grain and perforations.  I went on to clean the rest of the seat, which was then set over a low temperature oil-filled radiator (seat squab inverted and not touching it) to mostly dry for 20 minutes.  The leather now feels very much more supple (compared with the passenger seat which I haven't yet cleaned) and I think would take in leather conditioner quite nicely, but first I want to dye the light grey to black.  I have some shoe dye but it's at least xx years old, so I think I'll pop out to the shops and spend a few shillings to buy some new.  

Just out of curiosity, I do have some foaming upholstery cleaner, which I may try tomorrow, to see if that leaves things any cleaner still.

In the meantime, I bid you a good evening,

Pete

 

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On 7/16/2021 at 12:35 PM, Lebro said:

Just ordered a set of 8 studs (+½")  & while I was there ended up ordering a set of their chrome moly pushrods, I am still on the original solid steel ones, which are too long now I have had the head & block skimmed, with these (you can shorten them to suit) I can take out the shims under my rocker pedestals.

Bob.

Hi Bob,

Just gone searching for info on push rods and found this thread. I've just taken my "new push rods" out as starting to look at changing the cam (long story) and out of the 8 composite push rods 4no ends have fallen off, one on the bottom end so have just, carefully retrieved with a magnet (FEW!)

Can you tell me the suppliers that you have ordered from as I've been up and down the thread and I've missed it somewhere. AND are they any good?

I'm talking with "my supplier" to find out what I have and what can be done about them but was interested in an alternative IF the quality is there (sure ain't here!)

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1 hour ago, Lebro said:

Tap them in using a bar with a ball end.  I held the shaft in my 3 jaw chuck.

Bob

Same as me then, I also added Loctite 638 to the bits.

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Evening all  ..not a whole lot to report on. After pulling my lower-back last weekend I seemed to be unable to get it warm, and so my going outside to work on the car ground to a halt.  This afternoon I made an effort to kick-start myself into a back-to-work mode.

Having reversed and modified the MX5 seat adapters, and then locally altered the inner wheel-aches ..in order to move these seats back by some 3-1/2" !  ..I needed to clean up and repaint under the wheel arches. . .

P1410070s.JPG.5b8e9e46f9640078b77c25f2a97c193f.JPG   P1410072s.JPG.f8af00fb7680ed98d95ac584ba9b7b28.JPG

^ All-in-all I was pleasantly surprised that despite my having rudely inverted this wheel arch's compound-shape inwards.. the pink primer had stayed almost entirely intact. The conifer green (which was the car's original colour) paint appears to be on top of the pink primer, so perhaps the original restorer was going to repaint the car that colour.   However, he sold the car as an unfinished project to Bob Bell, who painted her red.  I guess the thin layer of under-seal was applied directly over the green, some 22 - 24 years ago, and that has now dried out and so tends to not stick as well as it once did.  Naturally, with that many years since restoration, some of the bottom panel edges would now also benefit from a little preventative care & attention.  

But, this afternoon I only got around to attending the driver's side - because I found a bit of welding to do. . .

P1410073s.JPG.45e04449128577e8cf347ef9d5cbed6a.JPG

^ The lower seat belt mounting was one I drilled when I first got the car. This was to relocate the retractable mechanism from immediately behind / under the seat (bolted to the sill), so I could move the seat back a bit.  As you can see I'd fitted it with a large body washer, which I'd intended at some time to tack weld in place. Plans sort of changed direction for a while though last summer, and so while (again) in this space I thought it opportune to get on and do it. 

The crack through the panel immediately, below that mounting, is surely an also-missed MOT failure.!  Not least because I had the TR6 body to chassis mounting added to the suspension bridge ..just the other side of this panel.

Interestingly, or otherwise, the dint to the underside edge of that panel (below and a little to the left of the seat belt's hole) is where the body shell literally used to rest on the previous chassis' spring cup.  I'd spotted this when seeking to correct the excessive wheel-arch to tyre clearance (post chassis-swap). The body is some 10mm higher now.  

Anyway moving on.,

P1410078s.JPG.16b0dc4ffedb1b0fb1b8def6e9dba5a1.JPG    P1410079s.JPG.d777eb1f53c3b84b9d028ac324601c35.JPG

^ Fortunately nothing but a little surface rust to clean off.  To reinforce this corner, I cut a plate to fit behind it, and then drilled the panel so I could plug-weld it in situ.  The crack itself was of course seam-welded, and the underside edge of the panel and plate were also stitched together. 

P1410082as.JPG.0b1247dac75cf05a72aa9a048348e6e7.JPG     P1410088s.JPG.4281dbeb6a70cf5cc33bfb4a89829412.JPG

^ it was awkward to get around that corner to finish it smoothly, with the suspension bridge in the way, so this will have to do for now.  The large diameter, 2mm thick, body washer for the seat belt mount is now tacked in place (it happens to be of stainless steel ..because that's what i had to hand).  And then after a little more scraping and general cleaning up, including the end-plate of the sill, I splashed over it with POR-15.  Not a very pretty job but once again painted over - it'll keep the wet out and help preserve the car for another 55 years ..or at least until the next phase of rolling-restoration. 

Oh yes., and while i had the POR-15 out I painted the MX5 seat runner adapters, and also the car's original body mount washers  . . .

P1410086s.JPG.d737324ab6ef6579927739b0c033c32e.JPG 

^ The honeysuckle is doing very nicely, and remains constantly in flower.  And the frame for the plastic cover is convenient for hanging nails to dry things on.  I don't know how many of these thick body-washers are used on a TR4A, but here are 18 that were previously on this car ..and had been over painted several times over.  It took me ages to get these back to bare metal and ready to repaint them.  M&T had swapped-them-out for bright-nickel penny-washers (fitting two under each fastening).  All very pretty looking, but also very wrong because two thin penny washers don't equal a single thick body-washer in their resistance to bending, And so each penny washer bowed as its fastening pulled the floor panel into the rubber body mount.!  

Anyhow, all of those from inside the car are already out, for my cleaning and repainting of the floors, so refitting the fastenings with these thick washers will be no extra work.

That's it for today, and time for a cuppa tea.

Pete

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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Great progress with the seat cleaning and body mods Pete

i use Autoglym leather cleaner with good effect but i’m not sure its better than your home brew mix!

regards

steve

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firstly, apologies Pete for my small diversion to your thread.

Secondly, thanks to Bob, Pete and Ian for your comments and contacts.

I have given these dodgy pushrods to a specialised welder and he's confident he can secure the ends...properly.

On close inspection some the ends had no welds on the joint at all, he's going to do them all.

If you'll let me Pete I'll pop back and let you know the outcome....and it was a good job you were under that wheel arch and found the stress crack ;)

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On 1/13/2022 at 8:02 PM, Steves_TR6 said:

Great progress with the seat cleaning and body mods Pete

i use Autoglym leather cleaner with good effect but i’m not sure its better than your home brew mix!

regards steve

Thanks Steve,  I've got a bit more cleaning of the leather to do as I've found some muck in squab to bolster stitching.  It looks as if somethings sticky has been spilt in there.  More on that and the products I'm trying.. sometime soon.   

- - -

No problem Nigel, glad your search led you find the helpful advice you sought. 

- - -

This afternoon I got back to crawling under the car.  I wonder if it will ever end ? 

I started off by undoing the eight still-fitted body-chassis bolts, but found the rear four were not tightened up anyway.  The two new mountings I'd had added (duplicating the TR6 ones on the forward suspension bridge) were done up ..but not very tight.  And the end two, at the rear of the chassis outriggers, were just rattling about loose. 

.. yet another source of rattle identified. ;)

 

P1410093s.JPG.d1e7701c457019437ee73b6c63678802.JPG   P1410094s.JPG.5f2eda0363ff8b0a89301fa22d11a572.JPG

^ Oddly, I needed to drill a hole in the bottom of the outrigger to get the socket extension in.  These holes were already in my old chassis, but not in this one ..so I wonder if the rear outriggers had been replaced with new generic sections.  The second photo simply illustrates how to get the bolt,  its washer (not two thin penny washers as again used here, but a proper thick body washer) and socket on / off that extension (..without their dropping down into / along the chassis rail !) 

Anyhow, back to lifting the body .. I just slackened-off the front mounting bolts, and the same on the left-hand-side of the car, to help keep the body-to-chassis alignment, before jacking under the driver's side sill to lift the rear end of that side of the body up.  It raised an inch but then seemed hesitant, so I looked around and at the exhaust to see what else might be holding the body down.  I found the front-right diagonal strut bolt, which I had slackened off was not yet slack enough, and (..like a twit :blink:)  also discovered that I'd forgotten to undo the bolt through the centre of the boot floor / spare-wheel well.  Thankfully with my monitoring / feeling the lift - nothing was overly stressed. 

The steering column was sorta interesting though, because I assumed some degree of lift would be possible through flexing its rubber donuts.  I checked to see if it still moved freely and it did, but that was because the spline to the bottom UJ was also loose.  Without the steering wheel on to restrict its movement - it moves up n' down quite freely !   ..Well done M&T's sub-contract mechanic you've once again surpassed yourself.  I'm just very glad you don't work on aircraft or else in a hospital !  

And yet another source of rattle identified. :wacko:

- - -

Moving on, or rather upwards, the body tub (measured above the trailing arm pivots) raised by about 2".  That was enough for my needs, which was to get in with a power wire brush ..to locally clean up and repaint the underside of the floor,  just above those pivot brackets. . .

P1410096s.JPG.e660097e5ab41ce85d47333215d0135b.JPG      P1410098s.JPG.908c9a6b81877cc5cd6391f23f1fc8eb.JPG

^ The first inch of Lift off.   I had already started to clean flaky paint and surface rust off that underside slope ..which is why it looks tan coloured, but then I noticed the top plate (a TR6 T-shirt top plate) on the chassis, had a slight gap under it, perhaps 1/8" (3mm) in some places.  That was very odd, until I prised it up (2nd photo, with long screwdriver coming in from the RHS) and discovered that it hadn't been welded.!   Seam sealer is great for keeping running water off, but it's Fxxx useless in terms of structural stiffness.  

Man was I upset. :angry:   After all the trouble and expense to (..as I see it) improve this chassis's structure, which included my providing labelled-illustrations and photos, I get this . ! ?    

I have spoken to Mark today, and clearly there was a misunderstanding, as we did at the time discuss their structurally bonding the forward extension of this plate down (..I wanted the T-shirt plate extended as far forward as possible.. to the gearbox mount) ...but that objective might be hampered if there were problems fitting the exhaust. 

In my mind the task would simply be a matter of temporarily clamping the plate in place and attempt to fit the exhaust pipe.  If it went in.. then great the plate could be welded (like it is on the TR6).  If not, then the forward part of the plate could be shortened or else it might be structurally adhered in place.  Nowhere did we discuss the use of seam sealer to just bed the plate on..  It just goes to show how two persons, speaking the same language can understanding things quite differently.  My focus was on the one car, whereas his attention was most likely spread across a host of different business matters all happening at once. 

Again I need to just accept it and move on.  In any case., some might say "whats the big deal ?, the TR4A has a bridge over the chassis instead of that T-shirt plate."  My reply would be along the lines - that it was an upgrade I'd specifically asked for and which had been agreed on, and so that opportunity (from a structural point of view) and the money spent on buying these panels, was wasted - because now its just sitting there on purposefully flexible goo.!  

I'll now deal with it as best I can.  As I cannot get in there with a welder with the body on, and although a body mount does go through this T-shirt panel (on either side of the driveshaft tunnel) I'm now faced with drilling and adding more bolts to secure it.  :unsure:  huff !

- - -

You may also have spotted the lack of rubber strip between the body tub and the chassis rails..   I'd noted while working within the interior, that the floor in certain places would metallically contact the top of the chassis.  A body mounting kit had been bought and I presume fitted, so I expected to see those rubber strips everywhere they should have been, but perhaps missing a couple of lengths on the extra chassis rails I'd specified.   Not so, I haven't investigated further forward but there's certainly none under the back end of the floors nor for the side rails.    

Despite the body tub predominantly sitting on reinforced-rubber body-mount pads, Triumph also saw fit to use rubber strips ..to prevent the possibility of the pressed-steel floors chattering against the chassis ..both irritating rattle(s) :wacko:  and, as this car previously experienced, exposed metal where paint had chafed away. The rubber strip also serve double duty as anti-drum pads.

Again., yet another possible source of rattle identified. :(

- - -

In the meantime..., back to the task in hand, very locally cleaning up and treating the underside of the floor . . .

P1410104s.JPG.b2fb576de97a3a9df85c18fb58be327b.JPG      P1410103s.JPG.33b8cdf552d3721dff6cbfdd907e48ad.JPG

^ despite limited and awkward access the underside of the floor panel cleaned up pretty well.. The inside face of the sill (2nd photo) was not so polished, but at least there's not rust holes through it.  This painted over is, at best, a rolling resto' make-do.  Without this effort - I'm guessing it would likely rust-through within a year of all-weather use. Hopefully though, a good coat of paint will keep the wet out and give me a couple or more years of use, before this inner sill will need replacing.  Who knows.. I might have actually started driving the car in that time . ! ?     

P1410108s.JPG.c0ab6a7296a8d8ed08c0e835850a42a8.JPG     P1410113s.JPG.368993b54f3fe37958d70d00d554f999.JPG

^ POR-15 is again used as a barrier.   Once that's dry it'll be painted over again, so road water splashes will more easily dry off.  I'll also look in to wheel arch liners.

That's it for today.  Not a good day for myself nor indeed for my dear friend Rich.  My sincere condolences to him. 

Regards, Pete

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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