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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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7 hours ago, Bfg said:

photos speak for themselves . . .

P1400398s.JPG.37414a72e4eb4709aab3c5dacdde2dad.JPG  

^ bolts without plain shanks and an apparently reused gasket.  

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^ two thread inserts, both proud of the gasket face.

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^ untapped hole for the thread insert

  P1400409s.JPG.9372e45c773f51063a7a18847d59e1d7.JPG

From cleaning out that hole.. it feels like silicon but with stripped-out-thread-bits to give it a nice crunchy texture.

 

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^ the top hole's thread insert, similarly in a plain (untapped) hole. 

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^ it's going to rather difficult to prevent swarf from my tapping that hole, inbetween the two gears, from dropping into the gearbox case. 

And this is just 200 miles since the gearbox was professional rebuilt by Klassic Transmissions.   I don't know if these faults were there before, but still I feel they ought to have been rectified in a professional manner.  And although there might have been an occasional drip of oil under the car - it was, when bought, remarkable oil-leak free. 

Pete

 

I was going to fit a 1st motion shaft cover seal last night until I noticed what a piece of sxxx it was. I would recommend you change yours but NOT from Rimmers. It’s about as thick as a chocolate button! So I’ve just ordered one from Moss which is much deeper, cost £2.50 plus post.

Who did the box rebuild last time Monkeyworld? Looks like they just wound in metric bolts everywhere. 

Good luck with it Pete you’re getting there!

Kevin

This is the old Moss seal casing against the Rimmers version. Same part number too.

F918BF02-17E9-4C5C-A451-686D92204C2B.thumb.jpeg.aa5f240bfcc44eada94ed6e9bbec4d29.jpeg

Edited by boxofbits
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P1400413s.JPG.505d9993aa4d1aab0cbbd795fcf5c4e7.JPG

I guess someone made a mistake ..and pulled the wrong size drill out of their kit..  ^ The drill supplied in my UNC thread-insert kit, when tapping for a 3/8" insert, is in the hole, whereas that for the 5/16" UNC (the correct bolt size) is in my fingers.  So someone over-drilled them, and then instead of finishing the job with oversized bolts, they simply used goo.

I might have sought sleeved inserts to fit into that over-sized hole, or else I was to go up in size to 3/8" UNC..  And that's what I've now done.   Very awkward little task doing those two, so close to the input shaft, and within the bell housing, but I'm pleased with the way they've gone in.  I guess I was very fortunate in preventing bits from dropping inside the gearbox, (using white grease on multiple layers of bubblewrap poked in, behind the holes, on the gearbox side) as subsequent flushing out with aerosol carb cleaner submitted no bits of swarf.   

Copper washers were used, but I see in the workshop manual that wedglok bolts were originally specified. 

Tomorrow I'll shop for a couple of bolts and copper washers to suit.

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^ I'm equally as unimpressed with the drain plug hole, I'd guess that requires a special tapered tap ?

Pete.

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Hi Pete

Makes me think the box was never stripped down at all. At best the top was removed for a quick look and then bolted up to a fashion and the case cleaned. 

Nothing short of robbery, hope you get some recompense for the inconvenience and extra work incurred.

Andy

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23 hours ago, Bfg said:

oh dear :mellow:  ..might I ask how much came out when it was just that gasket leaking ?  ie. if it's just a single drip after a run then I live with it. Conversely if it's a puddle then I'd better deal with now, rather than having to pull the gearbox out yet again.  cheers. 

It's easy to deal with now or even as Neil mentioned make a thicker plate.

A couple of drips was 2 to many for me.

Roy

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Hi Pete

It appears the Overdrive was fixed to the adaptor plate with ‘half nuts’ all bar the two on the longer studs which are standard size 5/16” unf. 

This will partly explain why your studs appeared to be too short. These would have been the factory fitted nuts ( reason not entirely sure apart from the studs being short). They are available in 5/16” UNF if you want it to be as per factory.

Kevin70AE4C6A-765C-4711-86FD-B8AFE1036955.thumb.jpeg.bc321cd86fea643c44c5aa3b5bb8af4e.jpeg

Edited by boxofbits
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Thank you Gentlemen for your continued support and good advice. 

I've been otherwise busy these past couple of days, but this afternoon I refitted the front seal cover.  As it was., I had already tapped and thread-inserted two of the four fastening holes with 3/8" UNC threads, while the other two remain as 5/16" UNC. . . . . .

P1400420s.JPG.a12831e396d071e4fa64fa9e5b69c97e.JPG    P1400426s.JPG.91d46b37c42fb46924e08f24dc3d78b9.JPG

^ of course, due care was needed to ensure that no coil wire end, nor bits of swarf, dropped into the input-shaft bearing or gear case.  And, as before, the thread-inserts were Loctited in place and fitted just a little below the gasket face. Thankfully the length, the back-end of those through to the gear-case, were excellent. They are, I feel, now noticeably stronger than the original tapped threads.

Today I started off with a little shopping, to Suffolk Fasteners, Ipswich because I needed just two 3/8" UNC bolts and a couple of copper washers to fit those.  Because I wanted a plain-shanked bolts for these ..I bought longer and cut them to length.  I'd also cleaned things up, made a new gasket, and annealed the two copper washers I'll reuse. . .

P1400430s.JPG.5ffb3a0914f93605c2b5eb3f26b90f43.JPG   P1400428s.JPG.6931904ea5e63a84300777acdbb2c6c3.JPG

P1400433s.JPG.98a8dd142978edecd5e39c666bbf2242.JPG

^ Parts all but ready. The inside of the cover's tube was water-proof greased to prevent surface rust.  And the seal was given a liberal coating of synthetic lubricant containing Teflon.   I used Wellseal on one side of the gasket (..which is first fitted around the bearing's retaining circlip) and a smear of grease on the other face.

P1400435s.JPG.1b805f7b06f8a5d202b0a6732620ae6a.JPG

^ another little minute job - done. 

Hopefully tomorrow I get a chance to refit the thrust-bearing assembly and perhaps drop the gearbox back into the car.

Pete.

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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Good evening Pete, I’ve not been a for awhile but I am still loving you posts on Katie, unfortunately your having to do far to much to your car that you thought you could just get in and drive. The good thing is that when you have completed all this work your going to have a great TR that you can just drive and drive keep up all the good work and you’ll soon be completed. Keep posting your helping others out.

Mike (Brenda) Redrose group 

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Good evening and Thanks Mike,  Katie  will never be in as lovely condition as Brenda,  but I do hope to have a decent driver by next summer.   B)

 

In the meantime . . ,  aside from sometimes being idle, I'm taking the opportunity of clearer access to do a little more inside the car. . .

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^ starting off with cleaning away the old gearbox-cover gasket, and straightening the (supposed) sealing flanges, which had been battered (..not by myself I might add).  After all, if I hope for a reasonably pleasant car one day, then I really ought to avoid engine and transmission noise and fumes simply wafting through the gaps.

P1400331s.JPG.7af5fdbd7b6ef9b0216c354c9026b8d5.JPG    P1400335s.JPG.13f740cb7d97be49e0ab7e550bb76377.JPG

^ Use a hammer & dolly where I can, but in places where the access is limited then an adjustable spanner, closed down to the flange's metal thickness, provide an excellent lever for easing the metal back into shape.   Note, the sealing / fastening flange for the cover, on the later cars, projects from the bulkhead. There are no fastening holes through the bulkhead itself.

P1400342s.JPG.f757863bb55ec1d9dd4e9a18ff9deecb.JPG    P1400345s.JPG.c72b2086ea1d529a595d934b44552afd.JPG

^ I also took the opportunity (its easier access) to start cleaning up the bulkhead and the driver's floor of crud, surface rust and rock-hard carpet-felt goo. 

My keenness was to get back onto a task that I started half a year ago, and that was to replace the thin fibreglass gearbox-cover fitted, with a steel one from a TR3. . .

P1400348s.JPG.3d05b723f86ffa255cdb0961235a41ab.JPG

^ I'd already cut it in two, so its rear of the dashboard support / H-frame would be detachable without disturbing the forward (bulkhead / under dashboard) section. But I'd never got as far as cleaning it up nor to straighten its flanges.  As you can see this cover's end flange (left hand side of photo), is designed to sit flat against the bulkhead of the side-screens cars. The cover is fastened through this to the bulkhead.   

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^ that's very much straighter, sitting flat on the floor and its forward (bulkhead) flange sitting nominally upright and square.  But there was still some repairs to do where this 60+ year old cover had cracks through a couple of its slotted bolt holes. 

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^ When fitted into the car this TR3 cover mostly fits the, 10-year later and massively revised body design of my TR4A.  This is particularly amazing insomuch as the cover's fastening and seal flanges are different.  Nevertheless five of the fastening bolts (1/4" UNF) around its bottom fitted without alteration (three on the RHS and two others on the LHS).  The height at the rear end (where I cut it off) is very much taller and wider than the TR4 type (which has to fit under the dashboard support / H-frame), but its fit to the body tub and along the floor edge is very convenient for its reuse. 

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^ From the inside you can see that the floor width is very good.  NB, the TR4 floor-edge lacks a bolt hole in that front left hand, so the cover is not being pulled down fully in the corner ).  Otherwise, the cover's overall height around the front flange started off being about 8 - 10mm too tall.  The steel cover has a hard corner shape on the LHS which called for a smoother line.  And a similar place on the RHS (at the top of the starter-motor's bulge) likewise needed a little easing and squaring to the TR4's sealing flange.  Otherwise, the bulged shape around the starter motor was a little too rounded. . .

P1400394as.JPG.62ebe7bea800376083abbca142fc6c04.JPG

^ Although it took a while (..and an embarrassing show of bad temper when I ran out of welding wire ..just as the day's light was fading !) - the task of getting this cover to sit even better / flat against Katie's  bulkhead, and down onto both side's floor edge, really wasn't that difficult a task.  Its width was already accurate, and the height at the front has now pulled down to about 6mm (1/4") too high. This is relative to the TR4's bulkhead sealing flange, but that really isn't too important to me as I can easily fill that with foam rubber. 

All in all, I made good progress and was very pleased with its fit ( all things considered) ..but then it was dark again and I couldn't see to continue.

If I get the gearbox back in the car in tomorrow, then that'll give me the heights I can taper the cover down to towards its rear.

Pete.  

 

Edited by Bfg
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My concern in using the steel tunnel is that in a TR3 if you fit a later 4 synchro gearbox, as found In TR4A, finds the starter motor bulge in the bell housing touching the inside face of the steel tunnel.   Modification involves either cutting a lump off the bell housing or reshaping the steel tunnel to clear the bell housing.

Cheers

Peter W

E64BBFBD-7B94-4FCA-9BD8-292132BADBE9.jpeg

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1 minute ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

My concern in using the steel tunnel is that in a TR3 if you fit a later 4 synchro gearbox, as found In TR4A, finds the starter motor bulge in the bell housing touching the inside face of the steel tunnel.   Modification involves either cutting a lump off the bell housing or reshaping the steel tunnel to clear the bell housing.

Cheers

Peter W

 

I had no such problem in my '56 TR3 which has the saloon box fitted.

Bob

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1 minute ago, Lebro said:

Pete.

Are you going to check that the the small oval plate under the gearbox input shaft is fitted correctly ?

Bob

No Bob, I've checked the bolts are tight and the there's copper washers fitted, so I think perhaps best to not go looking for more trouble. 

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12 minutes ago, Lebro said:

I had no such problem in my '56 TR3 which has the saloon box fitted.

Bob

The Stag box in my TR3A bashed and  rubbed the tunnel and it needed dressing back with a big ball pein hammer plus rounding the bell housing starter bulge with a curve cut file.

 

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Humbling to witness such tenacity and consistent effort, Pete, fair play to you. Well written and so informative.

Ciao,

  David

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Pete, I'm following your progress from the start as a silent witness.

Many thanks for sharing, I admire the attitude and perseverance and I'm sure you will get the car right and enjoy Katie even more knowing how much it took to get things right.

Hold strong and and keep us in the loop!

Cheers,

Laurent

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13 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said:

+1

Later TR3a gearbox covers are shaped differently to accommodate the inertia starter bulge on the box.

Stuart.

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3 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Mine is an early TR3 cover, 1955 build.

Bob

But it must still have the bulge for the inertia starter cover though? So possibly changed before you got it?

Stuart.

Edited by stuart
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Slight change of plan today, I decided not to drop the gearbox back in yet.   Last night, I noted in one of my photos that the other RHS gearbox-top-cover's threaded hole was also damaged.  So, while the task is easy to do, I decided to fit a thread insert in there too ..not least because when I bought the car, its overdrive's earth lead was clamped under that bolt ..and so that thread may get a little more use than the others.

Therefore, in planning my day - I opted to repaint the gearbox cover's flange on the bulkhead, the underside of the battery shelf, and a section of the passenger's footwell.. Again while access is good. And then while that paint was drying.. I'd work on the gearbox again. . .

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^ I'm very pleased with how this paint applied by brush and covered. It's thin enough to brush into the cracks of panel overlaps, but just about thick enough, even on this chilly day, to not run.  It came from Johnstone's trade store and is their Smooth Metal Paint  (Acrylic, so that I might thin it down with white spirits should I need it very thin / for wicking into joints).  The colour is RAL3001 Signalrot (red) which is very close to this car (I took a piece in to be colour matched). 

The rear half of the passenger footwell I'll repaint after the gearbox is slid back in and my bashing of the steel gearbox cover is done. The driver's footwell still needs a bit more cleaning up before I paint it with POR-15 (as I'd already done on the passenger side). It'll then get painted body colour whenever anon.

As intended, I then fitted another 5/16 UNC thread-insert into the top of the gearbox, before cleaning off the black paint and giving it a light blow-over with aerosol silver. . .  

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^ the (exchanged / reconditioned) overdrive was already bright n' shiny silver, but the gearbox and its bellhousing were patchy / flaky black paint with a smear of oil. Although I hope not to see it again very often, I'll now be able to more easily tell where any other oil leak may be coming from.   

That's it from a blustery-wet Ipswich tonight. I bid you warmth in your home and a pleasant weekend.

Pete

 

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Happy Sunday.. where I like to wake a little later than usual, make myself a cup of coffee with toast & marmalade, and then go back to read in my still snugly-warm nest.. Luxury !

As a consequence I don't do much work on such days.  In fact today I just did a couple of hours ..not because of any great urgency, but simply because I wanted to do this task while access was still easy, and again to allow the paint to dry before I continue playing around with the gearbox cover. . .

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^ the first hour was more cleaning and wire brushing, solvent wipes, etc.,

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^ second hour painting with POR-15, as I had done previously in the passenger side footwell.

Finished at 3:30, and that was it for today, I bid you a good evening.

Pete

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