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Great update, very complete assessment, looking forward to seeing the repairs and car going back together. 

Gareth

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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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Posted (edited)

Thank you gentlemen,  Katie  will I'm sure be a better car with her chassis replaced and body-off care, and then everything assembled and set up nicely.  But still the condition of the car is a credit to the two prior owners who restored her 22 years ago and subsequently cared for her.  I've seen (and owned far worse !

 

On 6/2/2021 at 3:13 PM, Bfg said:

Update :

For those who might be interested here are a few illustrations to explain what chassis mods I'm asking for (these being on top of the 'usual' stiffening mods carried out on these chassis such as boxing in open channels of the diff mounts, reinforcing around their pins, and doubling up on the the front suspension's wishbone brackets) . . .

   07a.thumb.jpg.1627329986fa74ddd86b45b78f2c10f3.jpg

^  07 refers to a flat plate welded inbetween the flanges of the chassis rear legs.  The one shown above  was done by Malbaby in Australia (thanks Malcolm B)) and follows the principle that a braced plate on edge is difficult to bend (in the vertical plane).  He used 8 or 9mm thick plate and did this with body on from under the car.  Whereas I'm asking for 5 or 6mm plate ..but for that to be extended right the way to the back, so that I have something secure to bolt a towing hitch bracket onto. 

1218732106_PetesChassisMods01s.thumb.jpg.953d67847033ecf35957d990f05352b6.jpg

^ Red numbers refer to various more-major mods (addendum to the standard TR4A chassis) being proposed, whereas the yellow arrows indicate additional gusset plates.  Perhaps you can visualise the load paths I'm attempting to smooth-out diagonally across the car (01, 02, & 08), and then how the rear diff mounts being tied together at their tops (05 & 06) and gusseted at the bottom help create a longitudinal support bridge forward to the main chassis rails.  The TR6 body also mounts to the chassis via brackets (04). These were not fitted to the TR4A chassis but I feel are useful to link the body structure together with the chassis.  It looks a lot of work, but when the body is off - it's not such a big job.  IMO the chassis design is a sad compromise without them, with one side of the car barely attached to the other.

Below  shows the standard chassis - which as you can see is not otherwise (structurally) joined between the front chassis cross-member and the (1.25mm ?) thin pressed t-shirt plate just forward of the diff  ..ie., for half the length of the car.!   And after that the chassis legs splay out and mostly rely on open channel-section bridges to join one side of the car to the other.  Bolted onto these bridges are not only the differential, with its torsional loading from the drive-shaft, but also the suspension springs and dampers.  The torsional load, just from the diff, is enough to tear the metal around its mounting studs (a very common failure).., so imagine if you might the chassis twist induced by one wheel going over a bump and the kinetic force through one corner's suspension spring and damper.  The early / sidescreen TR's and TR4 chassis are clearly a more coherent design with much shorter span lengths.

In addition..,

1438958251_TR4A-jackingpoints_.jpg.069d0e9e121dc2ed38d1c9cb58f6ca09.jpg

 ^ shown in green ; proposed 5 or 6mm thick jacking plates to be added, just where the car is usually lifted on a two poster or trolley jack.  I'll paint these to highlight them to garage mechanics and tyre fitters.!

Pete.  

 

 What's presently happening ? . . .

image07.thumb.jpeg.5faf946eb0f139aaefd928d163f1b2dc.jpeg

^ viewed with the chassis inverted, showing the proposed modifications being tacked into place, and photos sent for my approval (or otherwise ) before they are welded in.

Those shown here are 1. the extended T-shirt ; to further attach one side main chassis rail to the other,  2. diagonal members ; to help prevent the trailing arm outrigger from twisting (which in turn stresses and accelerates corrosion in its end joints), 3. cross beams ; to halve span-lengths and better support the outrigger and sill body mounts. 

Fabricated from the same rail section as the main chassis rail, the extra 4ft or so of steel adds very little weight, but so configured adds an huge amount of rigidity.

image18.jpeg.f00ec228fb0f21dadfb09362331d2f1f.jpeg

^ In conjunction with those, on top of the main chassis rails, I'm having the t-shirt plate extended, so the two central / main chassis rails have a base and lid plate to box them structurally together.  The prop-shaft is above these top plates and so it is just the exhaust pipe, fuel and brake pipes which run through that tunnel.  Again this boxing in adds very little weight, but will tie one side of the car to the other really well.  Albeit mine is very light-weight, railway-bridge spans come to mind. 

image16.thumb.jpeg.33e685fb5a6d46cf9862e79bd03d3662.jpeg

^ Unlike the Tr6, the Tr4A has steel bridge piece, which also serves as the tail-end of the prop-shaft tunnel. This is positioned just forward of the forward diff-mount bridge / suspension spring-turret but was not originally attached to it.  I'm having a short folded plate welded inbetween those, so they are joined together at their top, and then two further folded plates to tie the forward & rear diff bridges together (NB. remember to check the diff fits on the pins before final welding !). 

Aside from the usual reinforcements around the diff mounting pins, the two diff bridges and their legs are being plated in on their underside. As you can see (bottom of photo, in black) the corner of the rear bridge is also gusseted to rear chassis legs.  This adds bracing in way of the lever arm dampers.. and together with the 4A's steel prop-shaft tunnel these plates provide a load path (with depth) from the main chassis rails over the diff mounts and then back down to each chassis rear leg, not only longitudinally but also torsionally. 

image03.thumb.jpeg.0801124ee056d41db9e5794cc0450224.jpeg

^ across the front beam, where trolley jack are usually placed to lift the front of the car has additional plating 4mm thick.  These on my own car was dented in from where jacks have been used without the protection of a wooden beam.  This chassis wasn't so dented and scarred but I'd like to prevent further damage.

There are other mods happening, but the corner gussets and jacking plates M&T tacked-in-place were both too small and too thin for what I wanted.  I've rejected those for similar but more substantial.  Mark is being very understanding, and when we last spoke was enjoying showing another customer my old chassis's cracks and how the car was driven in. 

I might only guess he thinks I'm a bit paranoid, but he's such a pleasant chap that he seems happy to oblige my requests for these mods. 

Pete.

 

Edited by Bfg
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Thanks Ali, I'll do my best B)

 

I've just received an update from Mark at M&T Classics, who are doing my chassis mods.   If you're an ardent "originality" enthusiast or otherwise suffer from welding envy - you might want to look away.. 

IMG_1866.thumb.jpg.12861890c4b6f231a189075723b06075.jpg     IMG_1867.jpg.1bdf0c9e66c5ba85e049b53c6fed828f.jpg

^ checking the positions of the diff mounting studs before welding in both ends of the top braces.  Closing in of those webs yet to be done. 

IMG_1885.thumb.jpg.45a76ad4571b393a0202459bb165b4be.jpg     IMG_1908(1).thumb.jpg.d7f68a9f87a9f15c28177f4097bab621.jpg

^ Bracing the diff bridges together.    Additional gussets. ^^   

IMG_1870.thumb.jpg.bd1deef4e821c84962be94286b9b60de.jpg     IMG_1871.thumb.jpg.5e9ba532ef3511fb43b71c0bc6e63e8b.jpg

IMG_1872.thumb.jpg.d9822bfb27481b38e048d96fb5bb5a1e.jpg     IMG_1876.thumb.jpg.e214afbb3c8d527361397c66e7b57f7e.jpg

^ addition cross bracing support and diagonals, extended T-shirt plate and outside corner gusset / jacking plate.

 

IMG_1904.thumb.jpg.1674337978616bb6cb7e484ace35950e.jpg     IMG_1875.thumb.jpg.0371336b12fcf1a9d614b50de2116894.jpg

^  Talking of jacking plates.

And then Malcolm's vertical web stiffening of the rear chassis legs . . .

IMG_1914.thumb.jpg.f75a38483ce719fe5c8c9d84f73f9ad1.jpg     IMG_1912.thumb.jpg.1ada592cc87f145e6ea2490e5b9f8fad.jpg

^ starting inside the main chassis rails up, by the gearbox mount, and running right the way to the back (passed the cross tube of the silencer mount) to 40mm from the end. 

The cut short bottom of the 4A transmission tunnel bridge and diff mounting bridge will be reinstated and the webs of the diff mounting bridge will then be closed in. The front diff mounting bridge have also been closed in.

IMG_1922.thumb.jpg.3c40942a0639d2d2517aee2c9c3bc4d2.jpg

^ Top T-shirt plate will be assessed with respect to fitting pipes and exhaust within the tunnel.

And aside from the temporary WW1 camouflage., I don't think what I've asked for looks at all outrageous. 

What else can I say ?  ..but that I'm well impressed with both M&T's friendly service and their craftsmanship.

Pete.

  

   

 

 

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That’s a great job Pete 

I hope that you can put the nasties behind you and enjoy the fact you’ll probably have the strongest ever tr chassis. 
 

soon be enjoying it on the road as it’s coming along fine. 

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Hi Pete

good to see the progress, looking at some of your alterations especially the trailing arm strengthening section and the chassis channel from inner to outer rail they could be done from underneath with chassis on body 

Chris

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Imagine the handling with a chassis this stiff, you could go racing! Looks to be a great quality job they are doing. 

Gareth

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Posted (edited)

Quick pictorial update from Mark today ; 

IMG_1927.jpg.a05696234b272835a862f973e2478b69.jpg    IMG_1934.thumb.jpg.8290bd76f07d9719e1f122cf86281c81.jpg

         IMG_1935.thumb.jpg.3b48a1f9330ac4070600ec46a777a9d2.jpg     IMG_1943.thumb.jpg.bf0059eb36e3e538b5c1984cc3c64bda.jpg

^ Parts solvent cleaned and jet washed. New nylocks and bolts are being used where Mark thinks best.  You and I might have cleaned the old ones up on a wire-wheel but replacing them is probably better value with a commercial operation. 

IMG_1948.thumb.jpg.4a4bd401777df02dc2b347540ab2725d.jpg     IMG_1951.jpg.63b99e48a54faad66262b8c8a427a85a.jpg

^ The bottom T-shirt being drilled, to help avoid a big puddle of water sitting in there, now that those plates have end upturns on them.

IMG_1953.jpg.7beb66187ae77a721c5f72b5e9d62102.jpg    IMG_1963.jpg.b89a6a92d2c04131c5cb7440c0474836.jpg

^ Like the 4A's tunnel-bridge, the bottoms of the rear diff support bridge were temporarily cut short ..so the 5.3mm thick vertical web plate used could pass uninterrupted along the rear chassis legs.  Those pieces have now been reinstated and the bottom flanges of the diff bridge have been closed in as box section.  I specifically asked for it to wrapped under the chassis rail, which M&T have kindly done for me. They have of course been drilled for drainage through their bottom corner.  The closed in box section rear diff-bridge together with a final corner gusset.

IMG_1955.jpg.9682c3c88b3bc218b176b2709f184998.jpg

^ M&T skilled craftsman at work.  He's adding TR6 type body mounts onto the diff bridge / rear suspension's spring turret. I wanted these because I had ideas of fit a roll-over bar, and if so - then I very much prefer to tie that bar into the chassis. There's not much opportunity to do that with the standard TR4A chassis, which doesn't have these brackets.

IMG_1967.jpg.d75b3d04c4c4f21f265266fd55f75288.jpg    IMG_1968.jpg.7d60fa8297d333f50a05378655649da4.jpg

^ aside from the top T-shirt the welding is now all done. The bare metal primed and the edges seam sealed.  I'm very pleased with their work. 

IMG_1973.thumb.jpg.72687afbfe66bb811ccf4e5b671e35fe.jpg

IMG_1976.thumb.jpg.6d5c58861959e01f9ddb85c8068ee25f.jpg

^ I supplied the paint and agreed a price with Mark to roll it on. I might add that their preferred way would be to spend more time prepping the chassis for paint and then spray applying two-pack for a very durable show-car finish.   Alas, I have to be very watchful of the final cost and for a road car., I'm very happy with a hand painted / rolled finish.  I asked for this paint to be applied as thin as practical, and despite doing so - he's done a great job in achieving an even covering. Credit to Mark., it's neater than I might have hoped for.  Hopefully the cooler temperatures after last night's rain helped with the working times.  

Oh yes, I am aware that semi-satin black is standard Triumph, but I wanted silver because my tired old eyes can then better see if anything is amiss ..fastenings working loose, reoccurrence of rust, &/or oil leaks, etc.  Boat and caravan / trailer chassis are very often bright galvanised or silver painted ..but car manufacturer usually prefer not to highlight the fact that their cars leaked as 'original' direct from the factory.  Any who frown might like to reflect on Triumph's works race TR4 chassis, which was I believe painted brilliant white, as indeed it seems TR Enterprises TR4 FIA Race car was < here >. 

Once the paint on this side of the chassis has gone hard, then the chassis will of course be flipped for the top faces likewise painted.  Thereafter mechanical reassembly commences.  B) 

I'm well pleased,

Pete.

 

Edited by Bfg
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3 minutes ago, Bfg said:

 

IMG_1948.thumb.jpg.4a4bd401777df02dc2b347540ab2725d.jpg     IMG_1951.jpg.63b99e48a54faad66262b8c8a427a85a.jpg

^ The bottom T-shirt being drilled, to help avoid a big puddle of water sitting in there, now that those plates have end upturns on them.

Oil? You mean a big puddle of oil? Not water!

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:D  no we save the oil for rust protection  ..but here in England we often have a little too much water.

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You might find you`ll have clearance issues where those upstand fillets are on the lower "T" shirt.

Stuart.

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^ Indeed it is a tight fit through there for the single pipe my car has.   I'm guessing that's a slightly larger diameter than the twin pipe systems.?

Latest update from Mark this afternoon showing the chassis upturned and painted, the threaded holes tapped clean and the new body mounting kit laid out. 

Looking really good . . .

Pete

IMG_1994.jpg.0439627ceddacb566e2a76d2190f3065.jpg

IMG_1989.thumb.jpg.b359bb73b15193e18cdc2014d543dd23.jpg

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;)

That's a very big thumbs up.. Thanks Mike.

 

Katie, as bought, shook through her steering above 55mph.  My friend Rich who gave me a lift to collect the car was surprised when I joined the A14 dual-carriageway that I slowed down to let a lorry pass.  That's because I was concerned a wheel was falling off !   I stopped and checked that was not the case and thereafter assumed the wire wheels were way out of balance. This supposition being reinforced by the lack of balancing weights on the rims. I suspect that was because there were rubber white-wall-tyre embellishers sandwiched between the rim & the tyre and so clip-on balance weights couldn't be fitted.  

I subsequently removed the white-wall embellishment, and also checked and coppaslipped each wheel's fitting on its hub.  Because three of the five (inc the spare wheel) had 27 year old tyres fitted, and because I want pressed steel wheels - I wasn't going to waste money on having those balanced.  I did try swapping the wheels on their axles, front to back, and that very slightly lessened the shake through the steering wheel but still they shaked n' rattled the car ..and me, all the way to Wolverhampton.  

The TR4 / 4A wire wheels are 4-1/2J but standard TR2 - 4A pressed-steel wheels were 4J.   I bought a set of four pressed-steel-wheels, believing they were 4 1/2J's off a TR250 / TR5, but wherever that thought came from ..I was mistaken - I had bought a set of 4J's.  I emphasis that this was not the seller's fault, it was my own. oops :wacko:.  I only discovered it - after I had removed their old tyres. 

 

In the meantime., M&T Classics had, as I asked, swapped out the cut-short wheel-studs in my car's hubs for standard length studs. 

IMG_2021.jpg.ef063f2ad846ff3657b9abec7ee18a3a.jpg

^ Standard studs are too long for wire wheels, because the wire-wheel's inner hub are held away from sitting down onto the male-conical splined adapter. For the wheel to rest on the end of too long studs would be very dangerous.  The studs on Katie  had been cut short, several of them by too much ..Also not good.

I'd heard that wheel spacers can be used inbetween the half-shaft hub and the wire-wheel adapters. Mark very kindly tried this for me . . .

IMG_2020.jpg.1bfe87abd58a88bc7d25498c64aeed6b.jpg

^ Things loosely assembled with a 6mm (1/4") spacer.  If the wire wheel's inner hub now clears those studs - then using the wire wheels is fine and will be safe.  Handy to get us back from Wolverhampton.  B)

However, as my preference is for pressed steel wheels, that would be a temporary fix.  Although my wire-wheels appear to be in good order - it didn't make sense to have new tyres fitted to them (and to have those balanced) where I'll be changing them. 

While weighing up my options, of the wires with spacers or the (..not 4-1/2J / TR5 ) wheels I'd mistakenly bought ..and having those blasted and painted - I spotted that Jim Lowry had a set of pressed steel wheels for a TR4.  Although also 4j x 15., they appeared to be straight and cosmetically 'tidy'.  Jim's price was very fair, with their cost (for the set of five) being much the same as I could have a set of wheels blasted and painted for.

Yesterday I drove down to Chelmsford to buy and collect them. Their condition is fine for my purpose of having a nice driver rather than show car. . .

1374991603_wheels01a.thumb.jpg.e26da5f718d929f668d3d9d4b15f9044.jpg

^ the four wheels appear to have been painted and clear lacquered, and were clearly very nice when fitted, but have minor blemishes from balance weights having been clipped onto / removed from the rims.  I'll touch-in those places, as much as anything to hopefully prevent their chipped clear lacquer from flaking. The fifth wheel is likewise in silver but hadn't been clear lacquered. It's suffering from a few scrapes and some surface rust particularly on its inside ..perhaps cosmetic damage from tools rattling around in it, in the boot.  Again I'll tidy that up before having its tyre fitted. 

I'd bought three new tyres, as I hoped to re-use two off the wire wheels, but that's not convenient now the car's up in Wolverhampton.  Today I've ordered two more, so by the end of this week I hope to have a full set of round and balanced  wheels to replace the wires.

As an aside, Jim very kindly showed me some of his own cars .. and we had a great time chatting about each (..for 2-1/2 hours !).  Some of his car sales have been questioned / criticized by contributors of this forum, but he is in fact a really nice chap and comes across as being very conscientious in retaining, as far as possible, each car's original parts, their history (..whatever that may be) and patina.  The cars I saw (He's presently using a TR2, which I didn't see, but he otherwise showed me late 1950, early 60's MG's including a twin-cam MGA presently being worked on, and a Lotus Elite) each appear to have been rebuilt ..with an historic FIA scrutineer's eye to putting things back together properly / sorted ..rather than to glitzy or showroom standards.  In short, they seemed to be excellent cars to use and enjoy - as they had been designed to be used.  It was great to meet him and have a really enjoyable conversation.

Cheers, Pete.

 

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On 6/18/2021 at 6:56 PM, Bfg said:

^ Indeed it is a tight fit through there for the single pipe my car has.   I'm guessing that's a slightly larger diameter than the twin pipe systems.?

Latest update from Mark this afternoon showing the chassis upturned and painted, the threaded holes tapped clean and the new body mounting kit laid out. 

Looking really good . . .

Pete

 

 

Nope.

Originally the inter pipe from gearbox mount rearwards does not change diameters for single cross box or twin outlet    The give away is the same exhaust clamp is used at the gearbox mounting point.  pt no 130890.

Cheers

Peter W

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/exhaust/exhaust-systems/exhaust-system-tr4a-1965-67.html

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Thanks Peter, that's interesting.  Triumph engineers rather confuse things don't they. 

This would imply that the twin pipe system doesn't offer much if anything ..but its twin pipe look, extra weight, complexity and cost, over the cross-box design.  Mine has the latter cross-box type (albeit in SS., which is oddly quiet compared to other TR's I've driven.  At first I thought it lacked something of a nice sportscar exhaust note, but for touring I think it'll be more comfortable. 

Pete.  

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On 6/11/2021 at 12:47 PM, Bfg said:

Further updates from M&T Classics, Wolverhampton. . .

Sent to me on Saturday, which was followed up by a very positive phone conversation to say what he'd seen and reflections on the general condition

image23.thumb.jpeg.2278d8f170ea5fe7c528ec7549e54bf3.jpeg. . .  Body off

image0.thumb.jpeg.13e74bab101244ad95a3534d850c5866.jpeg

^ chassis and mechanicals now accessible for inspection and further dismantling

image11.thumb.jpeg.e063be7a1d3ee8c6ddf14f1dfec15519.jpeg

^ This is the area of rear outrigger / diff & damper mounting bridge, I clean off to more clearly shows the cracks I found (..though not apparent when I bought the car because its on top of the chassis and of course the wheel filled the arch)  There may be something obscure :blink: about my spraying zinc/cold galvanising paint on this, but even for a short while I couldn't leave bare metal showing.

image4.thumb.jpeg.03e7226bf6fc073d5864aaf65485440a.jpeg

^ Body mounting washers &/or rubbers were missing and the body tub was chafing against the chassis in several places. Most would have just caused annoying rattles and squeaks, but this is the rear suspension spring turret.  In the bottom-right of the photo you can see a groove worn mostly through that spring cup by the rear inner-wing's flange.  Before very long that spring-cup would have cracked through. 

image5.thumb.jpeg.8b02a0cb72c394102b92d595255abcd5.jpeg

^ This is one of the differential's mounting studs pulling out of the bridge (which also serves as the rear suspension spring turret).   I had seen evidence of this from under the car but, with restricted access, all I could see was weld splatter over weld splatter ..which I just knew would not have penetrated the metal to hold the pin secure.   My Tr4 engine has just 105bhp and 128 ft.lb of torque (..on a good day ) which is considerably less than a tuned Tr5 or Tr6, but still.. just it torque through the drive-train, pulling and twisting at these pins, has caused their mountings to crack and rip out (.. I should write to complain to Standard-Triumph they they've only lasted 54 years. Does anyone have a current address ? ).

The cracks around the chassis rear legs would have (imo) been repairable in-situ with the body on, particularly if i replaced that bridge, but seeing this attempt at welding from the underside of the car - led to the decision to have the body lifted off and to do the job properly.  

image7.thumb.jpeg.e4a1496e0a074feb14db94426774a893.jpeg

^ Outriggers and rear-end-of-the sill body mounts in surprisingly excellent condition and the suspension was (subsequent to the original restoration) fitted with poly-bushes.   Body to chassis contact is evident in various places ...more clanking / vibration noises !   And unfortunately, the trailing arm poly-bushes were assembled dry (no silicon grease ?) and their bolts without Coppaslip ..so are seized.  Together these may account for the distinctive creaking noises from the car's suspension.   The bolts will have to be cut out and the poly-bushes replaced.  more cost !

image12.thumb.jpeg.f43ff8ac57679347aa06c0a92f0b8eaf.jpeg   image13.thumb.jpeg.e9774c729913ca4702088ff17332fdb1.jpeg

^ the gearbox is out to reveal the new clutch I'd fitted.  The gearbox has been dropped off to the same gearbox specialist (Classic Transmissions if I recall)  who rebuild my old Jaguar gearbox some years back.  A very nice gentleman / old-boy will do a quick rebuild for us, as I'm aware of noises which point to the lay-shaft bearings being on their way out.  It's opportune to do this now, while the engine is out rather than to go through the hassles and to pay the labour cost later.  Hopefully by catching it early, it will have avoided damage to the gears themselves.  Mark is being very helpful and aware of my financial limitations, and is not charging to deliver the gearbox to the specialist (..on his way home).  It was booked in advance and because M&T use the same gentleman all the time, the task ought to fit-in with our chassis-swap schedule. 

The front half of the chassis is again in good shape but the (again usual) reinforcements to the suspension mounts hadn't been done.  They have, of course, been done on the replacement chassis.

All in all then, steady progress and a positive report. B)

Pete.

 

IMG_2129.thumb.jpg.d18c555b18bfe866ad5c8f96ef7bd7cf.jpg

OK., FOR SALE - TR4A chassis  (easily modified to TR5 or TR6 spec).     Just a thought ..and I have OK'ed it with Mark before I suggested this.. it is available for collection from Wolverhampton, or in a few weeks time, from Ipswich, Suffolk  

I don't wish to discuss prices on an open forum,  but as a starting point the chassis replacement I've just bought cost me £2,550 and that had also been welded (those being aside from the modifications I subsequently asked for).  A new replacement chassis from CTM is I believe in the region of £6,700 + collection costs, with present delivery being ; six months to one year.  

Emotion of the moment of discovery aside., an impartial look at these photos would suggest that my car's chassis condition is generally very good.  However, its damage would have been difficult to repair properly from underneath with the body on, as indeed it would have been nigh-on-impossible to do the stiffening-mods I specifically asked for.  Having seen numerous other blogs of TR4A - TR6 chassis ..in far worse condition, being successfully repaired.., if I had the space to do so, then I would have lifted the body off my car, repaired the chassis and refitted it.

And had I taken on a project TR, as I had originally hoped to do, then again my intent was to first restore 'a spare' chassis and then to transfer assemblies across, one at a time as they were reconditioned.  Much easier IMO than taking everything off and then being confronted with a huge mixed-up jigsaw puzzle of loose parts.  I've been there done that with motorcycles ..which take up very much less space.

Personally speaking, I would have locally cut out the old poorer-quality repairs (..which have only lasted 22 years road-use since restoration) and inset new metal. And then with shiny clean metal (clear access is the key here) and the chassis rotated to a position where welding is easy - I would have every confidence that the repaired structure would be both strong and would have been barely discernible.  Btw., I had been offered a replacement rear diff mount (after-market tubular section) and so would have fitted that. 

Mark is going to send me other photos, now that the chassis is completely stripped down, but as far as I'm aware there is no evidence of accident damage nor of any place where the chassis has rusted (not even pin-holes) through. That is unusual, even with many US cars where the T-shirt plate conceals rust and the trailing-arm outriggers need replacing.  The rear legs of this chassis may  have drooped (can't really tell because some body mounting rubbers or spacers were missing - the cause of surface chafing), but either way I honestly believe that this would have been easily corrected in the course of general repairs (dimensions in the workshop manual).

Anyway., these things are for you to determine for yourself.  I can forward Mark's photos of the chassis, as it is now, to anyone who is seriously interested in buying.

Please contact me in person via a PM. 

Cheers, Pete.

 

Edited by Bfg
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3 hours ago, Bfg said:

;)

That's a very big thumbs up.. Thanks Mike.

 

Katie, as bought, shook through her steering above 55mph.  My friend Rich who gave me a lift to collect the car was surprised when I joined the A14 dual-carriageway that I slowed down to let a lorry pass.  That's because I was concerned a wheel was falling off !   I stopped and checked that was not the case and thereafter assumed the wire wheels were way out of balance. This supposition being reinforced by the lack of balancing weights on the rims. I suspect that was because there were rubber white-wall-tyre embellishers sandwiched between the rim & the tyre and so clip-on balance weights couldn't be fitted.  

I subsequently removed the white-wall embellishment, and also checked and coppaslipped each wheel's fitting on its hub.  Because three of the five (inc the spare wheel) had 27 year old tyres fitted, and because I want pressed steel wheels - I wasn't going to waste money on having those balanced.  I did try swapping the wheels on their axles, front to back, and that very slightly lessened the shake through the steering wheel but still they shaked n' rattled the car ..and me, all the way to Wolverhampton.  

The TR4 / 4A wire wheels are 4-1/2J but standard TR2 - 4A pressed-steel wheels were 4J.   I bought a set of four pressed-steel-wheels, believing they were 4 1/2J's off a TR250 / TR5, but wherever that thought came from ..I was mistaken - I had bought a set of 4J's.  I emphasis that this was not the seller's fault, it was my own. oops :wacko:.  I only discovered it - after I had removed their old tyres. 

 

In the meantime., M&T Classics had, as I asked, swapped out the cut-short wheel-studs in my car's hubs for standard length studs. 

IMG_2021.jpg.ef063f2ad846ff3657b9abec7ee18a3a.jpg

^ Standard studs are too long for wire wheels, because the wire-wheel's inner hub are held away from sitting down onto the male-conical splined adapter. For the wheel to rest on the end of too long studs would be very dangerous.  The studs on Katie  had been cut short, several of them by too much ..Also not good.

I'd heard that wheel spacers can be used inbetween the half-shaft hub and the wire-wheel adapters. Mark very kindly tried this for me . . .

IMG_2020.jpg.1bfe87abd58a88bc7d25498c64aeed6b.jpg

^ Things loosely assembled with a 6mm (1/4") spacer.  If the wire wheel's inner hub now clears those studs - then using the wire wheels is fine and will be safe.  Handy to get us back from Wolverhampton.  B)

However, as my preference is for pressed steel wheels, that would be a temporary fix.  Although my wire-wheels appear to be in good order - it didn't make sense to have new tyres fitted to them (and to have those balanced) where I'll be changing them. 

 

 

So..,   FOR SALE - 4-1/2J x 15" painted wire wheels, x5  with Spinners, and Splined hubs for the TR 2 - 4A, and their special domed nuts, and possibly x2 good Maxxis tyres  (, dated 2013).  The three other tyres are old & worn.

 

 

2065042047_phone211028as.thumb.jpg.30b1786118507da6d5f4979e24b80052.jpg

^ As collected (in March, when the car was clean and wore the white-wall-tyre embellishers) ..available for collection from Wolverhampton, or in a few weeks time, from Ipswich, Suffolk  

I don't wish to discuss prices on an open forum,  but I'm sure anyone who has looked will have a good idea of the value of a set of five, sound wire 15" wheels ..together with x4 the splined-hubs and spinners.  I'm not in a position to give them away but I'm open to sensible offers.

Emotion of their being out of balance when I first collected the car aside., an impartial look at this photos shows that although not concourse they are still very respectable. The spinners have been dented (hammered rather than using a block of timber to protect the ears) but still they are very serviceable. They too have been over painted with silver paint.  

I have not had the wheels balanced but as far as I'm aware there are no broken or loose spokes, dented rims, nor is there any rust.

Again., these things are for you to determine for yourself.

Please contact me in person via a PM. 

Cheers, Pete.

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