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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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This weekend I didn't do much, but was pleased to receive the oil pressure warning light 'sender' (pressure-activated switch) & its adapter from TR Enterprise  on the Saturday.  That was very quick service considering I only ordered it on Friday.  I did this following my replacement oil filter canister suddenly spurting oil (the supplied seal being the wrong shape) and my realisation that such a thing could happen while driving and watching the road, for other traffic, sign posts and directions, etc  ..rather than glancing across to the oil pressure gauge (..situated on the LHS of the centre console).   I asked on this forum for advice < here > and was promptly answered with shared experiences, and even pointed the way to buy the necessary bits..  Brilliant forum, BIG THANKS to those who are here to their share practical advice.   

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The kit included a nicely made adapter, what appears to be a decent quality pressure-activated switch unit, and a Dowty washer.  No instructions were included, but a wiring diagram and spec sheet for the switch was found on Merlin Motorsport's web page.  I looked it up, from the part number printed on the switch, because I was concerned about the switch not screwing fully into the adapter, and because there is a screw in the end (between the terminals) and I wanted to know why it appeared loose.  

The thread on the switch / sender is a 1/8 NPT  (National Pipe Thread) which means its very fine thread is made with a <2 degree taper to it, so it seals when tightened (like a wedged bung in a hole).  OK that explains why it doesn't wind right the way into the adapter.  The screw between the terminals is for adjustment  "Turn the screw clockwise to increase the pressure at which the switch engages"  ie. when the warning light will illuminate &/or go out.  It doesn't say how many turns to adjust it, so I guess an accurate pressure gauge is the way to set it as you might want it.  It's also unclear as to which switch is supplied, as one is spec'd on the Merlin site is said to be set at 20 psi and another at 35psi, whereas TR Enterprise suggest its a 25psi.  Perhaps TR Enterprise use the former and screw its adjuster in. Whatever, I've left it / fitted it just as supplied.

Questions answered and with advice from this forum as to where to fit the adapter & switch into the 4-cylinder TR engine's block, I set about to do just that. . .

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^ Fitted, below the fuel pump, into the oil gallery which runs along the LHS of this wet-liner engine, and where there are three screw-in core plugs to chose from.  I chose the most awkward to get a spanner onto :wacko: ..simply because I felt that would be out of the way / least vulnerable to getting knocked, and also because the wires were to run to the bulkhead.

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^ One of the switch's two spade terminals is for an earth. The other is for the wire which goes to the warning light, on the warning light's earth side. The power feed I've taken directly from the fuse box (alongside the 'switched and fused' green wires).  Which wire goes to which terminals on the sender unit is unimportant. And which wire goes to which terminal on the warning light bulb-holder is only important if a (polarity sensitive) LED bulb is to be used. Which for he sake of greater luminosity - I was.

 

OK moving on to the warning light . . .

Unlike most, I've chosen to remove Katie's  (TR4A) wooden dashboard, and am simply using its steel backing plate as the seen dashboard.  The Charge  warning lamp and Indicator  tell-tale were mounted into the backing dashboard anyway, and so their positions between the main instruments (ie., right under my nose, in the peripheral of my line of sight when driving) led to my positioning of an Oil Pressure warning light.  It was to go centrally just below the two existing warning lights.

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^ Unfortunately one of the screw holes, used to mount the wooden dashboard, was just where that warning light was to go, but it wasn't positioned centrally.  Drilling just next to that hole would tend to cause the drill to wander ..and a skewed lamp ( just there ! ) would drive me to distraction.   

So, let me share with you how to very easily and very accurately centralise the hole. . .  

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I used a large washer, this one happens to be the centre of a drill's sanding-disk pad.  It is 1-1/2" outside diameter. Pushed against the bezels of the existing lamps, you can see how its hole centre is equidistant (same radius) from those lamps.  This washer has a 3/8" dia hole, and so a 10mm drill-bit being guided by the washer would likewise be equidistant from the two original warning lamps.  I first drilled very shallowly, to leave a centre indent, and then drilled that indent through with a 3mm drill. This helped guide the 10mm drill bit to cut through the steel, without drifting into the old dashboard fixing hole. 

Once that was done, the 10mm hole simply needed to be opened up to the size required by the warning lamp. For Katie,  I'd already decided to move the indicator tell-tale lamp to the lower position, and so a 3/4" hole was required. A stepped-size drill soon did that.

 

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^ Job done,  Left red warning light (slightly dimmer because it isn't presently fitted with an LED bulb) is the charge warning, and the RH red light is the new oil (low pressure) warning lamp.  Below those the green lamp is of course the indicator tell-tale. 

When the engine is started, both red warning lamps go out immediately. On slow tick-over the charge warning light tends to occasionally flicker. The oil pressure lamp does not.  And if, when driving, either come on then I'll immediate turn my attention to the gauges.

An oil-warning (low pressure) lamp is clearly not essential, as Katie  and so many other cars and old motorcycles (without one) have demonstrated for many years, but then nor is a charge warning light.!  But they do prompt a more immediate response and are very much more clearly-within-sight when driving.  I might only presume split seconds can save a lot of damage & cost if, and for whatever reason, oil pressure is suddenly lost. 

Peace of mind. 

Pete

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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Well done Pete another worthwhile job well done.

if you disconnect the coil feed wire so the engine doesn’t start, you can crank the engine and roughly see when the light goes out compared to the pressure gauge. Also works the same as you stop cranking and the pressure comes down and light come on. The way it would work if needed !!!

you may want to take the plugs out as some (ngk) don’t like being soaked.

Edited by Hamish
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Nicely done, looks pretty natural in the position you chose. 

Gareth

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Excellent stuff as per usual. The same job that  I am planning for the winter, but I hadn't considered moving the indicator lamp to the new position. I will now, thank you for sharing.

Les

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On 5/9/2022 at 7:38 AM, Mk2 Chopper said:

Nicely done, looks pretty natural in the position you chose. 

Gareth

 

21 hours ago, Les Millington said:

Excellent stuff as per usual. The same job that  I am planning for the winter, but I hadn't considered moving the indicator lamp to the new position. I will now, thank you for sharing.

Les

Thanks Gents,  I'm very happy with the oil-pressure warning lamp's position and with the indicator tell-tale now being below those.  They work for me and I wouldn't have thought most non-TR4 / TR4A owners would even notice these positions as being non-standard.

As of yesterday, Katie  is back on the road,  and I harbour no second thoughts as to their positions.   Of course with my being unfamiliar with driving a TR, and with Katie having been off the road since September (when Mathew kindly came down from Norfolk to help adjust the tracking) - I'm also closely watching the gauges.  But having warning lights is, for me, a very worthwhile reassurance that I'll spot any fault sooner than I might without them.  The LED bulbs are clear, even in bright sunshine ..which with the indicator is handy because I simply cannot hear the indicator relay ticking, even though it's now mounted directly onto the driver's side face vent.

Pete

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. . . (re)fitting carpets and seats. 

I'll try to keep this brief, because it's not applicable to most owners or restorers ..because I've fitted used carpets that were not previously in this car. I bought this set from Conrad (aka OpenRoad) a while back ..and they were in good condition ..regarding minimal wear &/or sun degradation, but they had also been crudely cut when previously fitted, and then also suffered a little damage when removed as a result of their having being glued & screwed down. These had in places pulled tuffs out.  This is no reflection on Conrad who was transparent in his description, and offered the set for just £40 ..if I recall correctly, which is a fraction of the cost of a new set.  

I primarily bought them to see if I liked green carpets in my red car.?  

This carpet set might be described as 'Deep pile tufted carpet, using 100% polypropylene fibre with a latex backing and hand bound edges ', which roughly translated means of  'economy quality, of generally poor fit ..but which will do '.  There are no claims as to original specification.

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^ The primary issue with these carpets is that their edges fray when cut, and they don't like to be handled, in particular being folded or creased.  This is because like a cheap tarp, the polypropylene (?) mesh that holds it all together is of loose weave and rather adverse to being glued to. And the supposed latex backing, is quite unlike the incredibly flexible and strong, impervious membrane that we might be familiar with in natural latex. And so, as a result of very little handling you'll begin to see cracked backing, tuffs dropping out, and fraying ..like this ^.

Of course if the carpets are fitted and then never handled then such issues will not be an issue.

Aside from edge binding, there is an inexpensive and easy-to-apply process which helps. This may be worthwhile for floor mats that are lifted out for cleaning &/or for drying. And that is to to paint the back face of the carpet, and carefully along any unbound edges, with liquid latex.

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^ These are the (back faces) of the used carpet set from the driver's footwell.  I've painted the liquid latex (bought off e-bay / used for mould making) and have laid the carpets face down and flat to dry (the oil-can is just a weight to flatten a curled up corner of that carpet).  The latex covers the surface and penetrates the cracks in the carpet's original backing to bind it all together. 

As very worthwhile bonuses, the carpets become non-slip, the latex contributes to sound absorption, and is a waterproof membrane.

You'll see that the above carpet has holes cut for seat runner bolts. These were crudely done and fraying. Although rarely seen, I wanted to fill those holes and lessen their visual impact ..not least because with my now fitting MX-5 seats the bolt pattern is different. . .

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^ I think the above is self explanatory, save to note that the lay (pile) of the tuffs in a patch should align with the lay of the tuffs in the carpet.  It's clearly not an invisible repair but for there being mostly under the seats - it'll do !

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^ from the modified seat brackets being refitted.. the new carpet stud positions could be marked (impressions) and holes were cut with an apple corer. Liquid latex was again carefully painted around the these hole's edges.

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^ That'll do.  I'm not fitting carpet to the inner sill.  For the time being at least I'll leave that red. The footwell side-kick carpet had no backing card nor vinyl edging (to secure the vulnerable / kicked edge under the door seal), so all I could do was to cut it straight, seal the edge with latex and then use Velcro along that back-edge to prevent it from hanging loose. Unfortunately I didn't have black Velcro so I'll go back and paint the just-seen edge with the black seat's upholstery paint.  The sharp eyes observer will note the edge binding at the forward end of the floor mat - tbh., I cheated with that . . . 

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^ the footwell carpet and its bulkhead end-kick were a single piece, and because I wanted easy-to-lift-out floor mats, I marked and chopped off the piece up the bulkhead.  Again I sealed the cut edges with latex. I then refitted the bulkhead piece upside own (inverted).  So it's top vinyl edge-binding is what you can see, now along the floor under the pedals (..it's not the floor mat which has binding along its edge).

Moving on.. to tackle the impossible . . .

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^ This is what I started with.   The previous carpet fitter had not been very precise in his cutting around the gear change, because it wasn't necessary to do so.  In the TR4A - TR6,  the dashboard support / H-frame includes a big ugly box to hide this. 

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^ The crushing of the carpet pile, by the H-frame's box, were to prove impossible to get out, and the only carpet I had (used and similarly hacked) to try and make the above look any better were the narrow strips, with the pile running a different way, off the inner sills.  I did try. . .

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^ the result speaks for itself.  I consoled myself that my efforts would at least be a useful pattern for new carpets to be made. 

Seats are back in, but on the driver's side I had to remove the cover from the seat-back's tilt mechanism, for the time being at least. The trim down the B-post was just too tight for the seat to go back as far as I need it to.  In due course I'll take the cardboard out of that trim, just locally where the seat is widest.  On the passenger side there's also an interference fit, but the seat pushes back and I doubt if it will be moved very often. 

Door trim panels and steering wheel are now back on, tyre pressures checked, oil and water rechecked.. what's next ??

. . .

. .

.

 

Edited by Bfg
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what's next ?? .. indeed . . .

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Take her for a drive, away from demanding traffic conditions in the Suffolk countryside ..and then stop to check that all is well (it was).

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^ the sill is yet to be repainted, and there are a hundred other jobs still to do, but hopefully now Katie  will be a driver on which I can spend a few hours here and there to potter around doing, inbetween my finally enjoying driving a TR4.   I like not having the bumpers on and the pressed steel wheels.  To my eye's she looks a purposeful British sports car ..and less a boulevarderie.  In response to Katie's  mid-life crisis ? I think she looks fabulous !

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^ the interior now has the MX-5 seats with their adjustable seat backs which are surprisingly firm but very much more acceptable than the TR4A seats previously fitted.   I like the colour of the carpets and the black seats, but each look better in the evening than in the bright daylight.   I also like her black dashboard and warning lights, and in driving - my revisions to which switch does what.  Relative to the B-posts (which I have not moved !) you can see how far back I now have the seats. Alas, the hood frame will soon have to go, to get its hinged joint out of my shoulder.

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^ Under-bonnet is nothing special, but at the same time it's uncluttered, purposeful and clean.

The car's handling, still needs a little fettling, or is that just me not used to the narrow track of a 1960's car and such quick steering.?  Possible the suspension will settle a little, but in the meantime I'll lower the front tyre pressures a couple of psi. I'll also recheck the tracking.   Noise levels and rattles when driving are now exceptional, a contradiction to what they were, and in stark contrast to my friend Rich's TR4 or Mike's TR4A each with their distinctive exhaust notes.

I'm very happy with the new LED lights, together with the sidelights I've added into the headlamp bowls ..and I ought now trust the wiring is going to behave nicely.  While driving, the ammeter shows reads a charge of about 5amp, and so I'll charge the battery to see if that settles down a little.

An oil drip from the bell housing (rear crank scroll I guess) and a a couple more from the overdrive are annoying.  It's on the job list but hopefully they'll not become a more serious issue.  Condensation in the engine I'm anxious about and so I've bought a pot of K-seal to see if that resolves the issue.

. . .

BIG THANKS to everyone who has supported me, both in the supply of parts, with advice and experience, and just in through being there through this forum.  It's no secret that I've been at the end of my tether a number of times.  Even my neighbours know only too well when things are not going well !  But I now hope to just drive the car ..very often, to become familiar with her, and to steadily work through any further teething problems.

Thank you.

Pete

 

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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Carpet is an interesting choice, but you've done wonders with making it presentable. 

Must be great taking her out in the sun how it was intended when it was made. 

As for to do lists, I think we've all got them, I'm currently restoring a standard rocker cover for my '6, but there's plenty of other stuff on the list, which may or may not get done in the near future. 

In the end just enjoy. 

Gareth

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Hi Pete

Great to see you and topless Katie out on a date in the sun!

Well done and thanks for sharing. I hope all the small jobs going forward remain small.

Andy

 

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Delighted for you, time to drive it as Mr Triumph intended and enjoy the fruits of your labour :) - have fun!

……..Andy 

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Thank you Gentlemen, It's good to get Katie  back on the road, although at present I have more mistrust than trust - and so am constantly on the alert for issues.  And of course if your focused on finding a problem, inevitably you will.  And the more you drive, the more you'll find. 

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Yesterday afternoon I drove across to Bawdsey Quay, locked my bag in the boot of a car whose agreed insurance-value is close to double my annual income, and walked away anxious that someone might touch the car.    And so what if they did ! ? . . . Get over it Pete, it's not a Fabergé egg.!  

The mileage driven this weekend records as 109miles, but I don't know how accurate that is because the speedo reads 8mph slow.  Still.. none of the wheels have fallen off, the gearbox hasn't dumped its contents along the road, she hasn't burst into flames, the engine oil pressure is fine, and the water temperature is low and steady ..even though the exhaust manifolds get up & beyond 300 deg. c.

Oh how the older mind works.. !

Life seemed very much sweeter when I was an ignorant 20 year old, enjoying the financial independence of my first job, and the car was an £80 MkII Spitfire that I constantly drove as if being chased by a blue flashing light (..as on occasion I was).  And when I parked, look back over my shoulder ..and with a broad goofy grin think "that was bloody fantastic".  

Hopefully in time and with familiarity I'll find my way back to that sort of mindset.

Pete

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This is exactly how it is with classic car ownership, when your of an age to have any responsibility.

It takes time to build up confidence in the car over time, the way I see it, if anything goes wrong, it's only money at the end of the day to sort it out. If you don't have it you can't sort it, and you've got to wait. Another age related thing is learning patience which helps. 

Enjoy the learning process of the car and its particular foibles and just looking at it as you point out is good therapy!

Gareth

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Thanks Pete

 

On 5/15/2022 at 4:14 PM, Mk2 Chopper said:

Carpet is an interesting choice

Gareth, I've no problem with others not sharing the same good taste as I have ! ;)    I like the green carpets, save the less-than-invisible patchwork around the gear-change gaiter, although I'll concede that this colour of carpet is better viewed from inside the car (..than when seen as a background for the black seats). 

Conversely, I thought the black carpets, which were previously in the car, looked good (..aside from them showing every speck of dirt & countryside dust) from outside the car, but were dismally gloomy when sitting within.  

I trust you'll agree that not many owners have the foresight to colour-match the engine block with the carpets ! B)       

Pete

p.s. if anyone has a metre of the green carpet they'd like to sell on then I'd be interested - cheers. 

p.p.s.  This windscreen is badly scratched (inside wiped I would guess by someone wearing a diamond ring) as well as the tiny stone chips of half a decade's use, plus the usual grinding splatter.  So if anyone can recommend if one is better than another, I'd be glad to be enlightened. Otherwise I'll just order and get one fitted by the local glass centre - cheers again. Pete

 

 

Edited by Bfg
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2 minutes ago, stuart said:

So did you fit a firewall in the end Pete?

Stuart

Not at this time Stuart.  I have reasons for that, but agree with closing the fuel tank off from the interior ..and at the same benefiting from additional body stiffness offered by a rear firewall.

Pete

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Just now, Bfg said:

Not at this time Stuart.  I have reasons for that, but agree with closing the fuel tank off from the interior ..and at the same benefiting from additional body stiffness offered by a rear firewall.

Pete

When made in aluminum which is the usual medium it doesnt actually contribute much to stiffness but contributes hugely to safety, what are your reasons for not currently fitting as its a fairly quick fit?

Stuart

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Always worth remembering of possible consequences, “The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there,” today we wouldn't dream of making cars with such in built safety flaws.

Our own Alec Pringle posted of his own sad experience with them

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Mick Richards

 

 

 

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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