That was a year that was..

[Lebro]

I sealed mine with loctite, thus sealing & locking in one move 

Bob

[Bfg]

This afternoon saw us pass a milestone in Katie's  reassembly . . .

   

^ I've used 2mm thk x 30mm wide self-adhesive neoprene rubber strip for the gearbox-cover seal.  Using a coring knife (as in apple cores) against a block of softwood, the screw holes were 'punched' out as I went along,

^ forward section in. These jobs always take a little extra time when working alone ..and the bolts, penny washers, and my ribbed-rubber dam (between the engine bay and the gearbox) are fitted from the engine side of the bulkhead and the nut & washers are fitted, with a long reach forward, within the car's interior.

 

^ yes, indeed, the speedo-drive's access cover still needs to be fitted, and also the self-tapping screws around the panel overlaps (each have been pre-drilled but I don't yet know if they line up with the seals in place).

I'm rerouting the rev.counter cable as well, as it looks unsightly running from one side of the car to the other within the engine bay.  I believe the side-screen cars did it this way, so no innovation here ..just a preference of mine.

^ job mostly done, but for fitting the back face of the map pocket, the interior trim with gear-change gaiter, and the handbrake lever.

Because I adapted this cover to fit under the H-frame - it's somewhat sleeker than than it was (TR3 shape).  It looks, and in steel it ought to be, purposeful .. such a shame to hide it under carpets.    anyway I'm really chuffed that its fit is so very tight.  

Bidding you a pleasant weekend,

Pete
 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Bfg

[BRENDA1]

Morning Pete, looking good you could always go rally style and have no carpets. Your getting there then you can get out and about. Took the hardtop off Brenda as hopefully summer is on its way then we’re going out for a short run over to Lyme Park for a walk round the house & gardens. (It’s so close and it appears Carole has never been) have a good day.

Mike redrose group 

[Hamish]

1 hour ago, BRENDA1 said:

Morning Pete, looking good you could always go rally style and have no carpets. Your getting there then you can get out and about. Took the hardtop off Brenda as hopefully summer is on its way then we’re going out for a short run over to Lyme Park for a walk round the house & gardens. (It’s so close and it appears Carole has never been) have a good day.

Mike redrose group 

Glorious day for it. 
enjoy

[AlanG]

Looks good. Worth having access hole for the upper starter motor though.

Alan.

[stuart]

FWIW Sidescreen cars still had the rev counter cable crossing the engine compartment. They just changed sides with the speedo early on in TR2 production so navigators could see the speedo.

Stuart.

[Bfg]

On 2/27/2022 at 8:28 AM, BRENDA1 said:

Morning Pete, looking good you could always go rally style and have no carpets. Your getting there then you can get out and about. Took the hardtop off Brenda as hopefully summer is on its way then we’re going out for a short run over to Lyme Park for a walk round the house & gardens. (It’s so close and it appears Carole has never been) have a good day.

Mike redrose group 

Brenda's looking fabulous Mike. 

I do look forward to getting such a back-light (mine is in GRP) fitted to Katie, and then of course trying to sort out the Surrey top to fit with the TR6 windscreen header rail. 

Yes to start , while I sort through teething problems, rally style with no carpet over the tunnel would make sense, perhaps just rubber floor mats.  Carpets can be fitted later.

 

On 2/27/2022 at 11:25 AM, AlanG said:

Looks good. Worth having access hole for the upper starter motor (bolt ?)  though.

Alan.

Thanks. Good advice Alan, although I do wish you'd mentioned it before I painted, insulated, &/or fitted the cover.  It would have been easy to have had a grommeted hole just there.  The grp cover that was on the car looked to have been smashed in that place, and then was gaffer-taped over.  I didn't realise that it was from where the p.o. replaced the starter motor.   

 

On 2/27/2022 at 11:54 AM, stuart said:

FWIW Sidescreen cars still had the rev counter cable crossing the engine compartment. They just changed sides with the speedo early on in TR2 production so navigators could see the speedo.

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart,  Looking at photos on the internet have clearly misled me, perhaps because so many are LHD !

- - -

 

Following on from the heat shield over the dynamo, and before I refit seats in the car ..this past week I've been looking at / working on Katie's  wiring..   The were several reasons for for tackling this now, working under a poly-tunnel during the cold-damp weather   ..which in short (pun intended) come down to safety, reliability, and my own preference. 

From a personal point of view, I have seen a couple of cars burning. one was a fibreglass bodied Reliant which burnt with such ferocity that it was frightening.  The other was an XJ Jaguar ..famed for electrical faults because of the mass of wires and their duplication (in the manufacturer's hope of improving reliability).  And then of course I had a small under-bonnet fire with Katie, when a pot of brake fluid was left on the exhaust manifolds, after her clutch release mechanism had been replaced.  Fire is a terrible prospect.  

Poor reliability is simply a pain in the archives. Even a well maintained car can fail an MOT because the horn or washers, or a lamp not working. The latter also tends to attract the attentions of the Police ..which on the whole I like to keep on the right side of.  Naturally, because more electrics are used in the winter months and in the rain, heater, wiper, lights, etc, so then the electrical loads on the whole are greater and the likelihood of fault is greater ..all to often occurring in the cold, dark and wet.  And of course in the cold weather, the starter is working harder to turn over more viscous engine oil and then with lights on the charging system is working close to its capacity. .

My third point was own-preferences. I find life easier when there's logic in the wire's route, but of course Standard-Triumph had to make compromises for economy, ease of production and commonality of parts for left and right hand drive cars ..destined to different markets.  I also distrust home-crimped connectors, and insecure/ unsupported wires that drape or swing around loosely and chafe.  And then again clutter and unsightly wiring, and heater pipes, drive and control cables crossing over each other in the engine bay. 

I find a neatly laid out engine bay is easier to keep clean and tidy, easier to see when something is not quite right, and offers better access for maintenance (I lost count of the number of times my right sleeve snagged on the exposed terminals of the horn relay when I was working on the dynamo, its mountings and shield ..before I removed it !). I also find neat engineering is somewhat more pleasing. But then I also have personal preferences in terms of things like hazard warning lights, electric screen-wash, and lights of an appropriate brightness ..now that other night-time ambient light levels (other vehicles and street lighting) are so much brighter than they were 50 years ago.

Even a cursory check of Katie's  wiring revealed that important (read un-switched live and heavy current) connections had failed. For example two of the large wires to the control box very easily pulled out of their connectors, those to the horn and dynamo each had heat-hardened and cracked insulation, and the wires to both the main and dipped headlamps were pinched-through the insulation to expose the copper wire. Many other wires had the end connector with exposed frayed wires to it.   I also didn't like the electrical wires going forward being routed in the bottom corner of the inner wing, where any petrol leak would dribble onto them.

Non of the wiring connections which had been home / previous-owner replaced with crimped wore end-sleeve insulation over the connection, so each were exposed to be shorted out. These include each wire to the control box.  Even the original connections to the fuse box are exposed.  Each of this car's three fuses were 35A, and no connection terminal appeared to have been cleaned and Vaselined when the car was restored 22+ years ago ..so commonly the resistance between every wire and its connection would be high. Throughout the car - that'll add up.  High electrical resistance leads to higher currents and the greater the risk of fire &/or failure.  It also means more battery charging is necessary which of course is paid for in fuel consumption.    

Is the car likely to be safe. legal and reliable as it is.?  - Aside from the horn not working, and the control box being of poor aftermarket quality with  intermittent connections through its loosely riveted terminals, it otherwise works for now. But imo failure is imminent when damp, corrosion and vibration will take their toll.

 

So, present work-in-progress involves checking every connection, cleaning off oxidisation (back to bare metal), add insulation where appropriate, with Vaseline brushed in every joint before reassembly (to lessen further corrosion), and then of course securing the wires. 

That aside I'm in the process of moving a few things . . .

. .

^ In terms of own-preference (logic in routing and a clearer engine bay) and in order to keep more of the electrics in a kinder environment, than an engine bay, I've chosen to relocate the control box and fuses to under the dashboard, in a line back from the voltage stabiliser.  At least if there is a fire I'll have advanced warning from the smell of melting insulation ..or my pants being on fire !  Yes there's plenty of room for my size-13 feet under there too.  The underside of the bulkhead was repainted and aluminium tape applied over that to reflect light in that corner.  And the fuse-box is on a bracket so the fuses face me when its cover is off.  

The brake light switch is dangling loose at the moment, but I want to move it to under here too.   I yet have to re-wrap the wires, and will use sleeves for the longer runs, and then of course to properly secure those wires.  

^ In the engine bay, for the forward wiring (lights and horn) I'm taking the high road over  the inner wing rather than through the gully under the carbs.  I'm also taking the opportunity to replace the grommets through the bulkhead for new, so noise and fumes are less likely to waft their way into the car's interior. 

And I now have a clear bulkhead shelf, besides the pedal box, to put tools down onto.   

Next I'll be looking into LED side, brake and indicator bulbs. There's a lot of reading (I've yet to do) in archive posts to find out what's what. 

My front indicator bulbs are already LED (stamped 1156 12v) with a " 25w 7 omn J " resistor on one side.  I also have LED number plate lamps, but for the sake of brightness and least electrical current - I'd like to replace the rest.  Bob do you offer a kit for the TR4A ?   The car is negative earth.  I'd also like to add hazard warnings, and to add additional sidelights into each headlamp.

Cheers,

Pete.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Bfg

[Lebro]

Pete.

Sounds like you will have a bespoke wiring loom when you are finished.

Regarding LED bulbs, I can certainly advise on the best ones to use (in my opinion), I do not make any of them myself, I only to the rear bulbs for sidescreen cars.

You don't need the resistors over your front indicators if you use an LED compatible flasher unit.

I will put together a list of suggested bulbs, & post on here.

Bob

[Bfg]

That's very kind of you Bob, I'm still reading other threads, and wasn't sure ..but I sort of got the impression that your own bulbs were inclined and carefully focused for those particular lamp units, which is why you often linked to ebay sellers for the other commonly mass-produced bulbs.   Still, you and a few others have provided a lot of really useful information and advice. And in particular your recommendations as to which are the better types and specification to buy.  I thank you.

Might I assume an LED compatible flasher is overall more efficient because a resistor is just converting electrical energy into heat ?

Yes my loom will be bespoke to this car.   For example the wires to the coil and temp sender will go through the bulkhead (together with the rev. counter cable) on that side of the car rather than they going all the way around the front.  Otherwise where I've relocated the control and fuse boxes, wires have been cut to length and carefully insulated soldered connections have been used.   I've designed car and boat wiring looms in the past, and so I don't find wiring difficult, but I admit to only a basic understanding of the electronics side of things.

I am preparing a wiring diagram, in Autocad, which will record what's what, a copy of which I'll print out (in colour) for my workshop manual.  I've wasted a bit of time deciphering that from the workshop manual, only to then find quite a few minor differences between it (TR4) and what we have on a TR4A.  Hey ho, it's all part of the learning curve. 

Pete.

 

[Lebro]

An LED compatible flasher unit, being electronic, will have a constant flash rate regardless of the load. They will also be more reliable than an ancient bimetalic type with pitted / rusted contacts !   & yes, the resistor is just wasting power.

My recommendations:

LED compatible flasher unit
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/indicator-relays-electronic/products/12v-electronic-indicator-flasher-relay-classic-car-with-oe-click-x-l-p-2-3-pin

Headlamp conversion kit to H4 LED
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/sb7014-sealed-beam-to-h4-led-upgrade-kit-p43t-472-llb472-glb472-bulb-globe

Or Headlamp conversion kit with pilot light

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/sb7014-sealed-beam-to-h4-led-upgrade-kit-p43t-472-llb472-glb472-bulb-globe-2

Rear indicators
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/indicator-bulbs/products/bright-amber-smd-led-indicator-bulbs-ba15s-glb382

Rear stop / tail
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/brake-tail-light-bulbs/products/2-x-bay15d-red-stop-tail-led-2835-brake-rear-light-glb380-p21-5w

Side lights

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/sidelight-bulbs/products/2x-ba9s-lucas-l516-1130-bright-white-t4w-233-led-sidelight-upgrade-bulb

High quality stuff, & good prices (compared to some who advertise in TR action  )

I don't know of any really good LED conversions for the earlier headlamp units with P36D type bulbs. so suggest switching to H4.

 

Bob
 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Lebro

[stillp]

Call me a pedant if you will, but "High electrical resistance leads to higher currents" is wrong. Higher resistance will lead to lower current, but also perhaps more heating of the terminals.

Pete

[Lebro]

Hazard warning.

This is easily achieved once you have LED flashers, & compatible flasher unit.

All you need is a 3 pole change over switch, here are two types of different sizes to choose from.

I use the small one, & it is hidden under the dash.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264269001947?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131898614717?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

And a small amount of wiring:

This is my wiring, I think your "indicator warning lamp" is wired differently (across the left & right bulbs)

you can just ignore that bit, in which case the warning lamp won't flash when hazards are on.

Or change the wiring to be as above (using the pilot terminal on the flasher unit to power the warning lamp)

Bob

Edited March 8, 2022 by Lebro

[charlie74]

Well, as I’m always late to a party I’ve been reading this entire thread over the last couple of weeks and I’d just like to express my gratitude for your chronicling the work done on Katie.  Much useful information as well as documentation of your emotional ups and downs and it’s all very valuable to a car enthusiast.  Congratulations on your perseverance and workmanship!  I’ll be following from now on!

[Bfg]

Thanks Bob, that'll be very useful.

I've had a bit too much fun redrawing the TR4 wiring diagram into Autocad, only to then find out that the TR4A has quite a few differences.  It is very remiss of the workshop manual and of Haynes, not to include one for this model of car. after all they did make more than just a handful.  I have a copy of Autowire's wiring diagram and have noted various comments about the couple of things wrong in that, so in time, I'll get mine correct. 

 

15 hours ago, charlie74 said:

Well, as I’m always late to a party I’ve been reading this entire thread over the last couple of weeks and I’d just like to express my gratitude for your chronicling the work done on Katie.  Much useful information as well as documentation of your emotional ups and downs and it’s all very valuable to a car enthusiast.  Congratulations on your perseverance and workmanship!  I’ll be following from now on!

Welcome Charlie, I believe the appropriate expression is "fashionably late" to the party    I'm glad that the experiences of this journey back into TR ownership have proved useful. 

I cannot recall if I posted about it, but I did try to buy a TR4 from Michigan.  It was supposed to be a driveable example ..for rolling restoration, but the seller couldn't seem to motivate himself in the cold weather to get the handbrake brakes free enough to roll it into a container.  Hey ho., after a good while of trying to encourage and motivate him, I gave up and moved on to the next car., and then the next ... 

I think classic cars were only ever invented to try and teach us patience and understanding of another's perspective.  The former I'm a persistent failure, and although I do have an appreciation of the design and build practices of these cars - I still find it infuriating when the space lacks just 1/4" extra to get a finger or tool onto fastening.!    Old Brit motorcycles are generally much easier to work on.

- - -

Anyways., much of what I'm doing right now with Katie  is simply the result of five decades of humidity and heat cycles having hardened insulation on the wires to the point where it has cracked or else where a connector on the end of a wire has worked loose (most likely 'metal fatigue' due to prolonged vibration &/or excessive bending or pulling of the wire into the connector).  Credit though must go to those who made these wiring looms. The quality of materials and the way the joints were made, is really very good ..not least insomuch as it has lasted so well and ..in the most part, will continue to safely and efficiently serve its purpose for many years to come.  

50 years on though., with the grime of humidity & dust and the inevitable oxidisation of the metal of the connector - I'm sure most every wiring joint on the car would measure excessive resistance.  So..,  dim lamps, poor charging, poor wiper and heater-blower performance, and then wasted fuel (after all - such inefficiencies always have to be paid for) ..as well as the potential fire risk and frustrating reliability issues either when everyone is watching, or else it is cold, wet, and getting dark ! 

It's a time consuming business to pull each and every wiring connection, and to pull back their end insulation sleeve and to check, clean and Vaseline every one, but if I don't.. then the piper will at some time have to be paid.

Fortunately I didn't have that many  home-crimped connectors on this car, but almost without exception those that are were  on Katie were loose enough to easily pull off.  I really do despise those things.

I've (professionally) designed a number of car and yacht looms myself, and so can appreciate that Triumph had to design the loom for different market configurations and equally for expediency during assembly.  So while checking and cleaning each wire, I'm also making minor adjustments according to my own criteria ..of being the driver.   I stress that I'm moving things around ..not because they are needed, but rather to suit my personal preference of ; having a tidier engine bay, and to order the routing in such a way that it is simpler &/or where any future fault might more easily be traced.  I'm also making a few changes according to my own ergonomic preferences and personal taste.

The changes I've made (..or am in the process of making) are ;

• control box (voltage regulator) moved to now be under the dashboard, together with the fuses.  This saved a host of wires having to go through the bulkhead grommet and then back again.  It also moves those items away from the engine bay side of the bulkhead (next to the pedal box) so that I have a clear shelf to put a tool down.  Those items are less likely to have their connections knocked, twisted, etc,  or shorted out by a metal tool.  NB. each connection on both the fuse box and the regulator were not insulated, but now each are. 

• Like wise with the brake light switch.  It's a pull type with a spring, which probably dates back to the 1950's as it came out of my box of motorcycle switches.  That is mounted onto the pedal box's rear fastening, onto which the steering column brace is also secured.  Again its wiring is now direct.
• And the bonnet release cable has moved to a new bracket too.  The 'new' bracket was formerly an aluminium coat peg. and it's screwed onto the bottom of the air vent trunking, which is very much easier to reach than where it was. The bonnet release cable is now 10" shorter and a smoother run through the grommet behind the pedal box to curve around the clutch master cylinder . . .

^ speedo & bonnet release cables rerouted.  The fine wire to the seen to the left of the master cylinder is an emergency bonnet pull.   The original solenoid was removed because Katie  has a hi-torque starter with a built in solenoid, and the two electrical wires ..from the ign switch and ammeter to the battery lead (seen under the bonnet latch) are yet to be dealt with.

• The wires to the dynamo now come through the bulkhead under the steering column (the hole was already there), and runs forward underneath the throttle linkage brackets within high temp (silicon rubber ?) wrap to help protect it from the heat of the exhaust manifold.
• The wiring to the headlamps, sidelights &indicators, and to the horn - now run over the top of RHS inner wheelarch, passed the bonnet-stay bracket, then dropping down to the lamps, and across the engine bay to the LHS below the grille.  I'll only be having the high-tone horn (sound carries better than the low tone) and that is mounted low-down on the inner wing, by the front LHS body/chassis mount. Just the one horn is rated at 3amp (which is less than that of the earlier cars) and as I'm not going to have a horn on the RHS of the car, I can also be rid of the relay and its nasty nest of wires that sit perched on the suspension tower.
• The wiring from the ignition switch to the coil, and that from the temperature sender to its gauge, now run down the LHS of the engine bay, clipped to the rev-counter cable which now also goes through the bulkhead on that side. 
• The speedo and rev counter instruments have switched their positions on the dashboard ..so their cable runs are smoother.  I don't have a navigator who needs to see the speedo, nor a wife who likes to keep a check on my road speed.!  
• Katie's  veneered dashboard was looking dull and generally 'very tired'.  I don't think it bloomed with living outside (even in a poly-tunnel).  It's plywood was twisted when I bought the car and as I unscrewed it I noticed it was de-laminating even in its core.  All things considered, it was overdue retirement.  I've always preferred the white dashboard of the early TR4 and so will at some time explore that option.  In the meantime (..during this Saturday's breakfast meeting) I acquired a TR4 centre console from my friend Rich ..many thanks to him for that.  And rather than pull the car apart further apart at this time, I'm leaving its TR4A metal dash in black.  NB. it's been crudely brush-painted at some time by a prior-owner and although I was intending to cover it in leather-effect vinyl..  for moment and for visual appraisal - the black paint will serve my purpose. . .

  

^ after a scrub upto clean off surface rust and a coat of zinc on its back face, the central console was good to go.

^ That looks OK ..I think ! ? 

Tbh., I like to think of the Triumph TR4 (yes even the 4A with its 'more compliant' rear suspension) as a rather crude seat-of-the-pants type driver's sports car, rather than the smoker's bar of a gentleman's club.  Accordingly, whereas I revere the book-matched veneer dashboards, door and A-post cappings, and fold-out tables in a classic Jaguar saloon, or Aston or Bentley ..I've never felt it looked honest in the Triumph.  Hey ho., we're all individuals and even my own personal taste is not a crime !    

No disrespect to those who have it in their cars, but I never was keen on British Leyland anti-glare (read dull) teak.  Purely by coincidence, at the breakfast meeting on Saturday one of our local TR6's had black kevlar-effect dashboard ..which I thought looked pretty cool.  I would of course have preferred the tactile feel of kevlar as well but hey that would be going a bit OTT. 

Anyway back to my tasks in hand, I've cleaned up each of the connections on the back of the instruments but I've yet to clean those up on each each of the wires.  Monday's job I think, after I've done some paperwork and paid some bills ..if only to get them off my desk.  The ashtray is a dummy plate.  I'll make, or look out for one, in due course ..no urgency though, as I don't smoke.  I guess I'll make a glove box door, and then I'll also want to fill in the 1/2" gap between the centre console and the switch plinth. More jobs to add to the list.   

I think finally for today's report ..

• I've positioned a 3-position pull-out type TR4 light switch on the right of the steering wheel.  I really don't like the column switches on the 4A and so the steel dashboard already having the hole there and, again my friend Rich helping me with the supply of a good switch on Saturday, I've put it there.  I've yet to shop for a knob to go on this switch, but it's a really convenient position just there, and yet the padded roll on the bottom of the dash will prevent it from getting knocked as I swing my legs in and out of the car.     I'd like the overdrive column switch to be on the LHS of the steering column. I'm not sure but it may be there on a TR4 ?

Well that's enough for today,  Again i bid you a very pleasant Sunday,

Pete.

[DavidBee]

I echo the excellent feedback from other Forumites. A great read too.

I could see you keeping a diary for one of the national magazines, as a correspondent. Actually, in my view, you are more readable. You add a pinch of humour and a lot of substance. Might it be an idea?

You have inspired me to do the same with the wiring, checking for tightness and greasing connexions. Even I should manage that.

Thanks, Pete. Well done! I'm a fan.

Ciao for now,

David

[Bfg]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:08 PM, DavidBee said:

I echo the excellent feedback from other Forumites. A great read too.

I could see you keeping a diary for one of the national magazines, as a correspondent. Actually, in my view, you are more readable. You add a pinch of humour and a lot of substance. Might it be an idea?

You have inspired me to do the same with the wiring, checking for tightness and greasing connections. Even I should manage that.

Thanks, Pete. Well done! I'm a fan.

Ciao for now,

David

Very kind of you ..blush.   It's gratifying to pass on something that may be helpful to others.  I might add though that it's also very kind of y'all to support us through times of disappointment & frustration ..as experienced by myself and I'm sure similarly by very many others.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 4:15 PM, Lebro said:

High quality stuff, & good prices

Thanks Bob, I ordered today via telephone ..as I wasn't sure about the bulbs recommended for different sized instruments & the warning lights all being the same, and then I also had a few questions re. minor discrepancies from standard. 

I might add, the gentleman over the phone was very patient with me and gave excellent service < Classic Car LEDs. > 

In summary, Katie  already has LED front indicator bulbs and I'd already bought those for the rear number plate.. so I've now ordered . . 

• LED rear indicator bulbs (amber)  x2
• LED brake and rear sidelight bulbs (red)  x2
• LED instrument bulbs  (warm white) x6 
• LED indicator warning light bulb  (green) x1       NB. I tend to find the main beam warning light bulb bright as it is, so I'm not changing that to LED).
• LED front indicator repeater bulbs (amber / capless on this particular car) x2
• LED front sidelight bulbs (warm white)  x2
• LED front sidelight bulbs together with bulb holders to (additionally) fit into the back of the headlamp reflectors (warm white) x2
• LED compatible indicator relay (which audibly ticks, similar to the original)  x1

All in all a little over £93 inc VAT and carriage. 

I think that's good value for decent quality parts, and from a UK company that is there to back-up their sale. 

The reasoning behind my spending this - is primarily to reduce the collective wattage of the side lamps and indicators, whereby in the event of an evening or night-time breakdown ; the battery's charge will last four-times longer and in the meantime those lights will be brighter.  Of course, in everyday running, the power not consumed doesn't need to be regenerated either.  At present petrol prices ..their lesser power consumption will pay for the bulbs pretty soon ! 

I'll keep a few of the original bulbs in the boot as spares. IMO there's no need to add the cost of spare LED bulbs which I might never use.  Katie's  present headlamp bulbs are 60/65w H4 halogen within Cibie reflectors, and I'm happy to leave those as are. 

Time-wise to change these is nil, because I'm pulling each bulb anyway to clean connections and to Vaseline the contacts and threads within the bulb holders.

I've also ordered the small switch (off of ebay) as recommended by Bob, so that I might switch the turn indicators into hazard warning.

I'm indebted to Bob for pointing me in the right direction, which has really saved a huge amount of pondering over what might ..or should, be. Thank you.

Pete

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Bfg

[Ali King]

Pete, as always an interesting read, thanks.

You are also inspiring me to go and check/improve my connections. Just a rookie question: you use vaseline - is that still the best stuff in this day and age, and presumably you get all connections good and tight before you apply it as I assume it acts as an insulator if it got in between (slightly worried about mistakingly applying it to an existing crimped connection which could be loose).

Also, may follow your lead with LED lights (thanks also Bob for your recommendations).

I may even remove one of the horns!

Ali.

[Bfg]

Hi Ali and thanks for your kind words,

Looseness between the wire and the terminal connector, really needs to be dealt with. It will only get worse.  Looseness of a connector onto a component or into a multiple connector ought to be tightened after the wire's terminal has been checked for tightness and corrosion (oxidisation), cleaned, repaired & insulated as necessary, and Vaselined ..which will help its fitting and removal, as well as help protect it from damp, etc..

There has been some recent discussion about Vaseline versus other products for electrical connectors, but I've not had problems with Vaseline in the 40+ years that I've been using it on the wiring connections of my motorcycles (whose connections tend to be more exposed to all weathers and more vibration). And the tub of stuff was already in the house.

I'm adverse to most* home-crimped connections because they are very rarely tight, and a loose connection allows moisture (atmospheric humidity) to oxidize between each strand of wire, which increases resistance to current flow.  Stillp Pete correctly says "High electrical resistance leads to higher currents" is wrong. Higher resistance will lead to lower current, but also perhaps more heating of the terminals.'   I should have qualified my statement, insomuch as ;  for equivalent power to reach the component the current will need to be higher if there is corrosion / high resistance in the wires and/or the connection is poor - than if the wires and connection are free of oxidization and the connection is good 'n tight ..whereby the flow of electricity is not hampered.

* professional standard crimping tools are commercially available, for individuals to buy, and may offer a good investment to anyone who is likely to use it a lot over their future years.  It would certainly be quicker than my soldering of each joint.!  Although I have a boat which I'm rewiring, and two vintage motorcycles, and the TR, I don't do enough rewiring to warrant buying one.  And as I no longer have a garage ..well it would be just another thing to have to store.   

Typically., home crimped connectors are not fully insulated either,  so if I see a blue or yellow connection cover on any of my vehicles.. that connection is destined to be pulled off and replaced with a soldered connection, with the support of heat-shrink over the wire's insulation and the end of the connector, and then an insulating sleeve over the connection itself.  When done, this is dipped end into the tub of Vaseline. Or where that's not convenient - I have a #2 water-colour paint brush to liberally brush the stuff right in.  

A crimped connector, when done with a (usually geared or hydraulic) high pressure tool, which is appropriately insulated ..as the original looms were made, are good though - because their crimping is tight. Equally as importantly, both the wire's core and its insulation are crimped. And the latter offers good support to the connection.  Unfortunately soldered connections damage the end of the plastic insulation ..which is why I also use heat shrink on each of my soldered connections - to reinstate that support.  

However, on an old loom where the connections have corroded on and the wire has been pulled to remove it, that insulation is often broken ..so then there are bare strands of wire core before the connection.  If the core wire has no loose or broken strands and is not badly corroded then I clean those up and fit heat shrink - to reinstate the support. I then apply the Vaseline ..so the connection is easier to remove (should I subsequently need to).  Only once that is done, do I pinch the connector up to make it a tight fit.    

NB. correctly the wiring connections should be fitted and removed with long nose pliers onto the terminal, not by pulling the wire.  It takes some discipline to get into the habit, and very few mechanics bother, but to not do so is to risk pulling the wire's insulation back or to pull the wires out of a crimped connector.  Btw., long nose pliers come in different lengths, as always the right tool makes the job easier. . .

 

"For all intent and purpose" in our vehicle's wiring loom - Vaseline does not act as an electrical insulator, but it is very effective in protecting the connection from moisture and from sometimes hostile atmospheric conditions ..like salt and other corrosive or acidic particles, and to a lesser degree from oil and other contaminates with may inhibit current across the joint. 

I might also add that "for all intent and purpose" in our vehicle's wiring loom - Vaseline does not act as an electrical conductor  either.  For example, I dismantled, checked and cleaned inside the very old motorcycle brake light switch I've used on Katie.  Before reassembly I applied (with my little paint brush) a smear Vaseline to lubricate its movement and to dissuade corrosion between its contacts. But I wasn't too concerned if a light smear of Vaseline might bridge, perhaps in parallel, between the contacts. It works great and I hope it will continue to do so for the next few decades.   This is commonplace for me, as I not only apply Vaseline into the wire's connector but I brush it over the components connectors too. for example the spade connectors on the fuse box and the voltage regulator.  Naturally, I try to 'paint' it only onto the spade and into the crevices where it goes into the box, but I'm not too worried if a smear goes between two connectors. Likewise again with the fuses and fuse holder themselves, and with bulbs and their holders.  

Oddly though - I haven't bought any for many, many years because it goes a long way and because I inherited it when family passed away.

As a final note, the connectors onto a component are not intended to be the wiring loom's support.  On my own car, for example, the under-bonnet loom ran forward along the trough at the base of the RHS inner wheel arch, where it was held secure in clips ..and also dribbled upon by petrol when the carb's float-level needle stuck.  Thereafter the loom rose up to the horn relay on the suspension tower, with no further support.  There was then an ugly nest of excess wires wrapped around, and the loom hung on the terminal connections of the relay and the horn. Upon close inspection, most of those wiring connectors had broken insulation and exposed, filthy dirty, twisted and fraying core wires. The wiring loom then proceeded forward to hang off the headlamp's wires. Along the grille bracing strut and across the radiator-shroud the loom was loosely held by cable ties.  Those wires exhibited examples of chafing, having been pinched through the insulation, having pulled terminals and loose connections. A sharp edge ceramic encased resistor, presumably for the LED bulbs in indicators, hung there too clonking against the body panels. 

Hey ho, it was a roadworthy car, and typical of many others I have seen, bonnet open at shows.

Hope the above helps ..and my apologies for being so long-winded.

Pete     

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Bfg

[stillp]

3 hours ago, Bfg said:

 

I'm adverse to most* home-crimped connections because they are very rarely tight, and a loose connection allows moisture (atmospheric humidity) to oxidize between each strand of wire, which increases resistance to current flow.  Stillp Pete correctly says "High electrical resistance leads to higher currents" is wrong. Higher resistance will lead to lower current, but also perhaps more heating of the terminals.'   I should have qualified my statement, insomuch as ;  for equivalent power to reach the component the current will need to be higher if there is corrosion / high resistance in the wires and/or the connection is poor - than if the wires and connection are free of oxidization and the connection is good 'n tight ..whereby the flow of electricity is not hampered.

 

 

 

Pete, the current in the circuit will depend on the voltage and the total resistance in the circuit, including the conductors, the connections, and the load. Increasing the resistance of any of those will reduce the current. With a more or less constant voltage, the current cannot be increased to overcome high-resistance connections.

I agree with most of your comments about crimp connections, but the important thing about crimp tooling is not that the crimping force is applied hydraulically or via gearing, but that the crimping force is not dependent on how hard the operator squeezes the handles. Only crimping tools with a ratchet mechanism that ensures full travel of the crimping dies should be used - such tools can be bought for around £15, although you can also pay up to £200 and probably more. Then of course the crimping dies and the crimp terminals have to be matched...

Soldering has its own set of problems. Often the solder travels up the wire by capillary attraction to a point outside the insulation support of the terminal, concentrating any bending stress so the individual wires are likely to fracture, thus decreasing the cross-sectional area of the conductor, leading to increased resistance. This is exacerbated by the fact that the flux used will travel ahead of the solder, so the point of greatest mechanical stress is also subjected to the corrosive influence of the flux (they're all corrosive to some extent) which will also tend to reduce the CSA of the conductors. Most people don't solder quickly enough to limit the distance the solder 'wicks' up the cable, often because they're using a low-powered soldering iron.

Many years ago when I was a college technician one of my tasks was to make up patch leads a couple of hundred each term for students to use in the electrical labs. The crimped leads always outlasted any soldered ones.

Having said all that, you're doing the right things in adding heatshrink to cover the terminal, hopefully going far enough up the wire to reduce the stress on the point where the solder has wicked up the wire, and also making sure that there's little or no stress applied to the joint.

Pete

[Lebro]

+1 could not agree more Pete.

I have no problem with the red / blue / yellow insulated crimps as long as the correct size is used for the cable in question, & the proper tool is used to produce a gas tight joint.

Bob.

[Bfg]

Cheers Pete for filling in the gaps and further advice . . .

3 hours ago, stillp said:

With a more or less constant voltage, the current cannot be increased to overcome high-resistance connections.

My education and experience in the subject is clearly limited, so I respectfully ask ; by increasing voltage, would the current not be increased to overcome high-resistance connections for (as I said) "equivalent power to reach the component" ?    ie., P=AV   ...and is the voltage from the dynamo not regulated by the control box, each with its (in Katie's  case) very loose crimped connectors.?

I note your point about the crimping tool needing the right dies and terminals ..for each type and size of connector.  I might only guess that there is also an element of care or skill required by the operator.  Perhaps I've had unusual experience, but certainly very few of the home-crimped terminal connections I've come across, on UK, European, Japanese, or America imported vehicles, have been up to par. 

Tbh., I much prefer to see original 70 year wiring connections than a single blue home-crimped connector.  And so, if I see those on any car, motorcycle or boat - it both devalues it and makes me wary of other aspects of the work ..in my estimation.

I concur, home-soldered connections do have their own shortcomings, as especially if the wire is old and discoloured &/or has been contaminated. The wires do need to be thoroughly cleaned, back to bright metal, and as you say the soldering iron needs to be hot and the fluxed solder applied to the end, whereby capillary takes it along.  Brand new wire is very easy to solder.  As I very rarely see home-soldered connections nowadays, I'd guess it's too much bother &/or too awkward for most home mechanics to do, and too time consuming for most professionals.  However, from my part - I'd tend to disagree with your point about solder being inflexible, to the point where "the individual wires are likely to fracture".  Well let's say.., I've personally never seen, nor personal experience of that, even before I added heat shrink for its support, and instead used Starbrite 'Liquid Insulating Tape' to seal off the end of the wire's insulation.  For the very limited number of connections I now do, I'm happy to stick with soldering.

Thanks again, I do appreciate your advice.

Pete 

Btw, the switch and the set of LED bulbs I'd ordered yesterday - arrived this lunchtime. That was impressively quick from both parties.    

[RobH]

4 minutes ago, Bfg said:

by increasing voltage, would the current not be increased to overcome high-resistance connections for (as I said) "equivalent power to reach the component" ?

Yes it would but the high resistance joint will warm up due to the ' I-squared  R ' loss - in worst cases that can be hot enough to melt insulation.  

[Bfg]

^ I agree. 

But isn't it meant to be a dark brown wire ! ?  

[Charlie D]

Just a quick note about “heat shrink” sleeve

I’m not sure how many people know this, but there is a version that has a coating of heat-meltable glue inside which helps fill any gaps where the shrink has not gone all the way.

Costs a bit more but I always use it , because it adds a more solid feel to the finished job. (Supports the wire away from the connector better.)

Charlie.

[Lebro]

Yes, that is good stuff, another way to achieve the same is to squirt some hot melt adhesive over the joint, then immediately slide the heatshrink over the joint, & shrink down, excess glue emerges from the ends of the sleeve as it shrinks, this can be easily wiped off while molten.

Bob