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Hello again, Pete

My word, what an absorbing read! Considering the technical nature of the content, you do make it very interesting. Writing is definitely one of your talents.

I'm also looking forward to the next instalments.

Best,

 David

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Pete - DON'T give up with owning a TR - there are other cars out there - just put the word out on here and elsewhere and I'm sure something will come up Chin up  Cheers Rich

Or these people? http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/classicmini/engine-components/2k7440.html Roger

. Carrying on from TR4 -v- Tr4A engine, and my purchasing a 'spare'  < here >  ..so that I might get on and have an engine ready by the time the Chance is actually bought and shipped,  we h

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Thank you Gentlemen, it is very kind of you to say so.  It takes me a huge amount of time but I enjoy sharing the journey with others who happen along the way. 

 

. . . earlier in the week, Katie  was reassembled enough to have been restarted again.     I did have a call from Mark to clarify elements of this car's non-standard wiring. This came down to a stray earth wire not having been noted when the car was stripped, and the hi-torque starter motor having its own solenoid, so the original one on the bulkhead is redundant but for its role as a connection (all wires going onto one just terminal).   Later in the day he had the car driving around the yard, albeit without panels or door on the near side.  That was to check the functional operation of everything mechanical, fluid and electrical.

The very uneven (14mm top - 3mm bottom) near-side door gap was where I'd started my investigation, which led me to note the cracked chassis.  With the body tub now correctly fitted to a solid chassis, Mark and his team are tackling that side's sill..  it having rust, being in slightly the wrong place, it being detached from the foot-well side panel, the A-post and B-posts, and its rear corner gusset plate being cracked. . .   We made the decision to cut this side's outer sill off ..to see what, if anything else, needed repair or replacing.

IMG_2401.thumb.jpg.80d95d873cf6b354770b5cf069af6819.jpg   IMG_2400.thumb.jpg.8549b518269fccaccb998920e03933b0.jpg

^ 20 years ago, was polyurethane foam (cavity wall insulation) thought to help keep water out, and so rust at bay ? ..or was it in there as an attempt to stiffen the structure, or to lessen noise transmission ? 

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^ The front end cap had rusted through and then of course any road-water spray goes inside the sill.  The car's footwell / floors have a down-turned flange which serves as the lower half of the inner sill, and being thin sheet steel that's been welded - is a place to rust quickly.  From under the car it didn't look at all too bad, but I knew they would need cleaning up and probably patching sometime soon.  There was of course under-seal to conceal the worse. I do hate that stuff.

Mark sent me these photos yesterday evening together with the note ;

" Removed old sill, door jam stiffener and end caps, cleaned up edges and inner sill treated and etch primed.  As thought it will require bottom 1 inch on inner sill and rear pillar bottom repairing but other edges all pretty good."

Having seen what was what he could then give me a fixed cost for this work.  We spoke this morning to confirm what was needed. . .

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^ I don't have the budget to replace everything and so the bottom 1" or so of the down-turned flange will be replaced with new steel, as will other localised areas.  The rest mostly cleaned up OK, and so M&T are treating them for rust and applying etch primer. 

IMG_2462.thumb.jpg.195f4a85149d9d41c8ac6731c7e68227.jpg

^ a replacement outer sill, end caps and rear corner gusset will be fitted.  These are better quality replacement parts rather than NOS original Stanparts ..which are beyond my budget. 

Mark sounded surprisingly confident that they'll be able to get the sill and door gaps as even as the other side, which he says are just a little big but within 1mm or so of being even. I'll be very happy with that ..as it avoids their reshaping panels, including the doors &/or wings, which of course would soon run up the costs and necessitate repainting too. 

Mark is on holiday next week, for one week, but this and other finishing up tasks will done by their team while he is away. All being well we're looking at the car being done and ready for collection or about the 20th of this month.

Pete.  

 

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Turned into a rather big job in the end, but now you know it'll be straighter, sit level on the road and not about to crumble away under you!

Good work by Mark and his team. 

Gareth

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34 minutes ago, Mk2 Chopper said:

Turned into a rather big job in the end, but now you know it'll be straighter, sit level on the road and not about to crumble away under you!

Good work by Mark and his team. 

Gareth

 

Thankfully in M&T - I've found a business who have old fashion work ethics and whose price is not cheap enough to need to cut corners, but also not at all a rip-off.   The car will be very much more expensive than I might possibly have imagined but the work is being done to a high standard, and the rest I can live with. To know exactly what has been done is important to me, and Mark's photos help me with that. 

Swapping the chassis is just one part of what I'm paying for here. 

  • The 'usual' TR mods (reinforcing the suspension mounts) had not been done on my old chassis, but were included in the cost of this one.
  • checking out why the NS door fit was so awful, and hopefully going some way to rectifying that ..without delving into the realms of a full restoration which would had necessitated the crippling costs of a respray.  Investigating this, revealed that the sill was loose from the A and B posts, and its ends were rusted. The sill will be replaced and the body's structure will be made good again.  The offside was professionally repaired a few years back and is 100% better than the nearside was.
  • The additional chassis-stiffening mods I asked for were important-to-me. Not least because they represented better value and making it all more the worthwhile ..whereas with just swapping the chassis for another the same - I just saw as a horrid bill.
  • Those mods included strengthening to the chassis' rear legs for when I fit a towing bracket, and they've included additional (TR6) body mounts, just in case I want to fit a roll-over bar into the car.  These mounts tie that structure directly to the chassis.  I've also had extra thick plates fitted under the chassis rails - where the car is jacked up.
  • The chassis was grit blasted, to be inspected and professionally repaired as necessary. It is now freshly repainted.
  • The chassis and sills will be wax oil injected (using a product from Wurth).

And then there is a list of other jobs being done, which of course have added to the bill but which were cost effective to do while access was good. These will save a whole lot of work (and cost) later on, and will make the car an all round better driver. . .

  • Gearbox rebuild (after the clutch, thrust bearing and release forks were done the gearbox still whirred, which I was advised was the lay-shaft bearings).  The gearbox was also leaking oil, and springs on the overdrive were found to be incorrectly fitted.
  • Differential's front seal was weeping, needed replacing.
  • Differential mount rubbers to be replaced with polybushes. The old rubber mounts were perished, which most likely contributed to cracking around the pins and rear bridge.
  • Clutch slave cylinder is weeping. Requires a repair kit fitting or for it to be replaced.
  • The wheel studs have been replaced so that I can now fit steel wheels. These are lighter weight than wire wheels & their adapter splines, they are easier to clean, and usually rounder and easier to balance.  I was also keen to tone down the car's flashy looks, and so I wanted steel wheels.
  • the brakes' flexi pipes have been replaced.  The condition of all other brake, clutch and fuel pipes, and their security have been checked and corrected as required.  
  • the gearbox mount has been replaced.
  • a gearbox vibration damper has been supplied & fitted (this counters vibration harmonics around 70mph).
  • the road springs have been replaced. The old ones were 54 years old and tired, and so the car leant to one side by 1/2" ..which is a lot on a car only 49" wide.  One of the rubber seats, onto which the spring sit was found to be missing, so spring harmonics would be transmitted directly through the chassis.  
  • the body mount spacers were incorrect and their rubber pads were perished and compacted. New (plated) bolts and body washers have been fitted. 
  • two exhaust straps were missing and a third one bodged. These have now been corrected, with brackets and new straps. The exhaust gasket to the cylinder has been replaced. 
  • one rear suspension bump-stop had crumbled. Both have been replaced.
  • all the suspension joints have been apart, checked and correctly reassembled with the appropriate lubrication. Naturally things like the steering trunnions have likewise been checked and greased.  (The suspension has poly-bushes throughout, as are the steering rack mounts). 
  • The suspension bolts and their nylocs have been replaced. 
  • all the wing fastening screws and their clips have been replaced.
  • drain pipes have been fitted from scuttle vent, led forward to come out under the wheel arches.
  • door check straps replaced.
  • another mod I've asked for is to remove the hump in the rear 'seat' area. This was a left over from the TR4 body shell where it provided space for the live axle's diff on full suspension.  Of course on the IRS cars the diff is fixed and so doesn't need that clearance bulge.  It's just a small detail but having a flat floor / shelf space back there rather than a bulge is easier to live with when touring. 
  • The car is being checked and assembled by professionals who specialise in Triumph TR's, but who also restore higher value cars like Jaguar E-types to show-winning concourse standard.
  • Gearbox, overdrive, diff, and all hydraulic fluids have been changed.
  • Brakes checked and adjusted, tracking done, etc. 

There may be a few more that I've missed, but I'm sure you get the idea.  With the work I'd already done ; new clutch and release mechanism, all the heater and cooling pipes replaced, new tyres all around, steering rubbers replaced, front engine mounts replaced..   the car should drive so much better, and also ought to be reliable (for all the checking and servicing).   If not, then I guess I ought to give up and buy a horse n' cart. 

Of course when I get the car back., I'll still have to refit (replace) the interior, and refit the bumpers.  I'll also want to go through all the wiring and their connections, and then I have the Surrey Top yet to fit.  And the steel gearbox cover,  and ....   well  it should be good to go by my 80th birthday !

Pete.

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Cheers Marcel. B)

 

Friday update from Mark., showing the replacement outer sill now welded in place, which will hopefully align the door to sill and door to wing gaps very much better. . .

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Next he says " Will get filler work done, re-prime and seal joints"

Mark is now away for 10 days holiday, so his team will be getting on with this, and getting the door and panels, including the bonnet, back on and adjusted as correct as they might (..without getting into reshaping the doors or wings).  Then it's things like the rear lights, gearbox tunnel cover, and a dozen or two of minor details, plus of course wax injecting inside the structure, to ready the car for collection on or soon after the 20th.  For budgetry reasons, I'll paint the sill and the door shuts when I get the car back here.

Again it's looking good, but now it'll be much better held together, which of course relates both to safety, the general feel of driving the car ...and to lessening the number of rattles !

Two more new Continental tyres arrived here yesterday so I now have a full set of five.!  Those are to fitted and balanced onto the pressed steel wheels I bought. And I'll take these up with me when I go to collect Katie  and will swap them over before we drive back.   I once bought a pair of motorcycle tyres (at the same time), but this is the first time I've ever bought a full set, or owned a car with new tyres all around.  

I guess I really ought to contact the insurance company to advise them of the chassis mods too ..and possibly to discus a change in insured value.

Bidding you a good weekend ..and some nice weather ?

Pete.

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On 6/21/2021 at 4:01 PM, Bfg said:

 

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OK., FOR SALE - TR4A chassis  (easily modified to TR5 or TR6 spec).     Just a thought ..and I have OK'ed it with Mark before I suggested this.. it is available for collection from Wolverhampton, or in a few weeks time, from Ipswich, Suffolk  

I don't wish to discuss prices on an open forum,  but as a starting point the chassis replacement I've just bought cost me £2,550 and that had also been welded (those being aside from the modifications I subsequently asked for).  A new replacement chassis from CTM is I believe in the region of £6,700 + collection costs, with present delivery being ; six months to one year.  

Emotion of the moment of discovery aside., an impartial look at these photos would suggest that my car's chassis condition is generally very good.  However, its damage would have been difficult to repair properly from underneath with the body on, as indeed it would have been nigh-on-impossible to do the stiffening-mods I specifically asked for.  Having seen numerous other blogs of TR4A - TR6 chassis ..in far worse condition, being successfully repaired.., if I had the space to do so, then I would have lifted the body off my car, repaired the chassis and refitted it.

And had I taken on a project TR, as I had originally hoped to do, then again my intent was to first restore 'a spare' chassis and then to transfer assemblies across, one at a time as they were reconditioned.  Much easier IMO than taking everything off and then being confronted with a huge mixed-up jigsaw puzzle of loose parts.  I've been there done that with motorcycles ..which take up very much less space.

Personally speaking, I would have locally cut out the old poorer-quality repairs (..which have only lasted 22 years road-use since restoration) and inset new metal. And then with shiny clean metal (clear access is the key here) and the chassis rotated to a position where welding is easy - I would have every confidence that the repaired structure would be both strong and would have been barely discernible.  Btw., I had been offered a replacement rear diff mount (after-market tubular section) and so would have fitted that. 

Mark is going to send me other photos, now that the chassis is completely stripped down, but as far as I'm aware there is no evidence of accident damage nor of any place where the chassis has rusted (not even pin-holes) through. That is unusual, even with many US cars where the T-shirt plate conceals rust and the trailing-arm outriggers need replacing.  The rear legs of this chassis may  have drooped (can't really tell because some body mounting rubbers or spacers were missing - the cause of surface chafing), but either way I honestly believe that this would have been easily corrected in the course of general repairs (dimensions in the workshop manual).

Anyway., these things are for you to determine for yourself.  I can forward Mark's photos of the chassis, as it is now, to anyone who is seriously interested in buying.

Please contact me in person via a PM. 

Cheers, Pete.

NOW SOLD  No interest from the classified, so I've now listed the chassis on e-bay..

I'll do the same with the wheels tomorrow.

Pete.

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32 minutes ago, Bfg said:

No interest from the classified, so I've now listed the chassis on e-bay..

I'll do the same with the wheels tomorrow.

Pete.

Pete, going through your list, I noticed you mention wheel studs. Will these be the threaded at both ends type or the (later, I think) press-fit type?

The reason for asking is that when two sheared off on the same rear wheel, luckily not while I was driving, I wondered if fitting the press-fit type would be a good idea — more reliable? Especially in light of an article in the Spanish TR Register magazine, in which the writer couldn't explain why a wheel had fallen off, coming to the conclusion it was metal fatigue.

If you hadn't wanted to convert from wire wheel splines to the steel wheel set-up, would you have replaced all the studs anyway, if metal fatigue really is an issue on old cars?

Unlike you and many others, I am no engineer and not too handy with a spanner either. But perhaps that's no excuse not to know, even if you never get to the stage where you know how.

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Good Morning David,

..threaded both ends or press-fit type. ?  I didn't know double-threaded studs were used on these cars wheel hubs.   I'm sure mine ('67 TR4A) are the pressed-in type.  I did not note their being double-threaded (my memory tends to recall a mind's-eye image and I wouldn't have taken note of the pressed-in type, as I take that as usual).  Mark also said that the calipers and hubs had to be pulled to fit the studs in from behind, and as the pressed in type have a head on them, this too implies their being pressed-in. The hubs have not been changed. 

The disadvantage of a screw thread is that it cuts a 'v' into the side of a rod (the stud) and that is quite like a perforation in cellophane packaging, whereby the deep 'v' focuses stresses and so initiates a tear.   Some threads like Whitworth have very coarse and rounded thread tips which are best suited to go into softer materials and castings (which due to the metal's porosity otherwise would easily crack or shear out), others (like UNF / unified ) have a much finer thread but a more generous inside radius of the bolt's thread, compared to that in the nut or steel (hub for example). see below 

1340699297_unifiedthread.jpg.17d9f1eb8a92d709259bb754bfea6b77.jpg

^ Unified thread ; The diameter of the 'v' in the bolt or stud (light grey) is the thread pitch / 4, whereas the diameter of the 'v' in the nut or steel is the thread's pitch / 8.    

Clearly both the quality of the steel and the accuracy of cut are crucial to how strong the thread is.  Too much carbon in a stud's steel can make it brittle, too little and the resultant metal is ductile.  It's a very fine balance.  Any impurity or porosity in the steel is a weakness, and if that happens to coincide with a cut thread then it can initiate a crack.  Although most are cut threads, some bolts and studs have rolled threads and that both softens the radii and flows the metal around the stud. These are strong but expensive.

A pressed-in type stud has ribs (to prevent rotation) and a cap on their end. These are forged, so the flow of metal follows its surface shape, and very strong.  However the grade of metal is limited to the process. The ideal is strong but very slightly stretchy. This 'elasticity' has to within the parameter of however tight those nuts might  be tightened, and this has to take into account gorilla-tight and nowadays impact drivers.  Usually though they are super reliable.

Either type of stud can be overly stressed by accident loads. And this may be as simple as a hard curbing or hitting a brick when driving down a fast road.  In short this may induce bend in the stud which then focuses stress to just one side of the stud. Just talking off the top of my head here (disclaimer ; these are my opinion only, no liability accepted).. I'd think a curbing which slightly dented a wheel rim would be well within their designed safety tolerance. However a dent bad enough to right-the-wheel-off, or to bend any component part of the suspension, to damage a bearing, or to bend that corner of the chassis - might warrant replacing the studs and all suspension bolts in that corner.  It is of course all a matter of degree.

Mark has replaced each of the bolts which hold my car's wishbones together, likewise the bolts attaching suspension parts to the chassis.  Some were of a metric thread anyway, and who knows of what grade.!?  All nylocs were also replaced.  In the big picture of restoration - the costs or additional task is small. 

Fatigue is also accelerated by the fastening not being tightened correctly.  Gorilla over-tight wheels or a loose wheel, or a wire-wheel adapter that is not sitting flat to the hub (caused by the stud not having been cut short enough or the wrong nuts being fitted) are as bad as each other.  Likewise if a part is seized on then the stresses of undoing it may stress surrounding fastenings.  As an example, my 'spare' engine's rear-most cylinder was seized, and so I used the flywheel bolts to turn and free it off.  Then as matter of course I've replaced those bolts.  

I guess if a car's brakes have been seized on and it were an absolute !$%#@ !! to move the car, to free them off, etc., then I might have to consider what, if any, excessive stresses and strains the fastenings were subjected to.  Bearing in mind that a rally car might have be using those same spec parts, it's unlikely these freeing off loads would be excessive ..but each case has to be evaluated accordingly.   

"If you hadn't wanted to convert from wire wheel splines to the steel wheel set-up, would you have replaced all the studs anyway, if metal fatigue really is an issue on old cars? "   Age in itself is not a big deal, so if I had an original spec car that straight but 70 years old and still riding on its original cross-ply tyres then I'd very likely assess it as not having done many miles, nor having been rallied, nor having been in an accident.  Corrosion aside., I probably wouldn't replace much but perished rubber and all its old grease.  I have a very high regard for original parts and the metal they used, in preference to new aftermarket / budget quality parts.  I'm sure age is also factored in, as is careful inspection, but in aviation, flight hours and flight logs (number of and severity of landings !) are carefully recorded and these alone often determine when parts are replaced.

When restoring any vehicle, we each have to make a best-guess assessment of corrosion &/or any type of accident damage over the lifespan of that car or motorcycle. In reality, most of that history will be unknown, and parts like wheels might have been replaced several times already, but tell-tale signs (like a bent suspension wishbone or a scarred chassis rail) might offer clues.

The owner's budget is instrumental in decisions, as may be the intended use of the car, as may be the mechanical awareness of the driver (..even when the car is used by other family members).  How much do new studs cost ? ..but conversely where do you stop when you start down the road of replacing every little detail.?  

Certainly, I tend not to shop at a classic car specialist for most commonly sized nuts n' bolts, n' washers, I'd go to a fastener specialist.  The Sunbeam motorcycle fellowship have complied a list of every fastening on the post-war bikes, so it's easy to buy new. I don't know if a similar list is available for your TR.?  Please be aware though that there are different tensile grades of bolt & nut, and many different spring rates and sections of lock washers. Some people like stainless bolts, but I wouldn't use them anywhere they'd be highly stressed. Conversely I do like stainless steel washers.

Hope that helps,

Pete.

 

Edited by Bfg
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It really does Pete.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this in great detail. My conclusion, based on what you tell me, is to wait until something else needs doing, ideally in the rainy winter, not now, to replace all the wheel studs with press fit ones and f8nd out from the Forum from which supplier to source them.

That, inevitably, begs another (last) question: should one also, in converting to press-fit, consider replacing the hubs themselves? Or would that totally unnecessary, if there is no sign of damage? (Still same question, just ancillary :) ).

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The rear wheelstuds on the TR4 (not 4a) are threaded either end, (not sure of the sidescreen cars), when this happens to a TR4

1637816234_Wheelstudstrip.jpeg.f4cf83c193ad03de2c61ef4f0f2193a7.jpeg

This is how the screw in wheelstud looks like, and a new 890851133_TR4Wheelstuds.jpg.312fcd11858536a3be15f52294a8cade.jpgreplacement alongside.

Mick Richards

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Thanks Mickey!

I'm no engineer, but it's striking to see the two studs side by side. Is the standard thread a bit short, and therefore more prone to failure?

The reason I'm thinking about this, is that two of them sheared off the rear wheel, possibly the first because it was tightened too much before I got the car and the second on the same rear wheel popping a little later on. Then how come it never happened when I drove my first sidescreen TR (often rather hard)?

The later press-fit type seems sturdier and, am I right in saying modern cars use them?

What happens to the wheel hub designed for the earlier screw on type? Do the holes have to be machined? Or do you need to get new ones? And is there a choice, in terms of stronger (high tensile, is tgat it?) ones?

As I said earlier, my query also follows on from a recent failure where a front wheel came off, reported in an article in the Spanish TR magazine.

Thanks again Mickey,

David

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Hi David,

Normally I think the original studs fall victim to an impact driver wielded by an 18 year old who never heard of a screwed wheel stud !

Probably more likely on the continent where the cars will be even more rare and of their unique requirements needed, quite possibly the reason for the Spanish lost wheels ! Metal doesn't get better with age but it's the fixing method which likely fails, the thread not being equal to 150 lb ft being wazzed through it with a rattle gun. 

If you do a search in Google termed " TR Register Forum TR4 Wheel stud" making use of the quotation marks as shown it will pre sort the terms from out the 19000 plus relating to wheel studs and give you 10 or 15 of the best threads with multiple posts.

The wheel hubs should be ok, age and general abuse excepted, and the studs taken out carefully (details on how to do that in these threads I've just listed). Normally by hacksawing the studs shorter (leave about 3mm above the hubs face) and carefully drilling out each studs threads from their centre outwards the new studs diameters should not be dramatically different and should be nicely positioned in the hub faces ready for their studs being pulled into position.

If you compare those studs shown (although difficult) you'll see the new stud is longer, comparably the old studs shoulder will be positioned well down towards the splined area of the new stud. I'm not even sure if this is the longest new stud available, they can pass in between the hub faces. Parallel flats ground on the new studs head will allow it to be wiggled and pushed between the hub faces and through the stud hole and still locate well. Then pull the stud splines through the hub face squarely with a suitable nut and heavy duty washer on top of a socket or tube spacer.

Mick Richards

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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2 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

The rear wheel studs on the TR4 (not 4a) are threaded either end, (not sure of the sidescreen cars)

Phew ! Triumph certainly had fun with wheel studs didn't they. 

From a quick glance at the online Moss catalogue < here > it looks as if the double-threaded studs were used primarily for live axle hubs. And these varied depending on Lockheed (for TR2 & 3), or Girling axle (for TR3, 3A, 4 and 4A - USA live axle) cars.  These then had the option of shorter stud for wire wheels, longer for steel wheels. 

The front wheel hub studs were different according to square or round hubs. The former having double threaded studs and the later (TR3, 3A and 4) having pressed-fit, again of different lengths according to steel or wire wheels.

IRS cars had / have pressed-fit studs front and back, but of different lengths according to front or rear hubs, and then also whether steel or wire wheels.

How many permutations that is ?  ..I've lost count.

 

5 hours ago, DavidBee said:

. . .to replace all the wheel studs with press fit ones and f8nd out from the Forum from which supplier to source them.

That, inevitably, begs another (last) question: should one also, in converting to press-fit, consider replacing the hubs themselves? Or would that totally unnecessary, if there is no sign of damage? (Still same question, just ancillary :)).

I don't know if a screw threaded stud hole is bigger or smaller than that of the pressed fit.  If it is smaller, then again I'm not even sure whether it is good engineering practice to drill one out to fit the other type.  If  the hole diameters happen to be accommodating then I see no reason why not.

I take it that your car ; TS9204, is an early TR3, with the Lockhead axle and square hubs.  I didn't know these cars had a specific problem with wheel studs breaking or stripping out.  TR3 experts within this community will advise you better than I, whether it is an issue or whether ou've just been unfortunate..  and thereafter whether it is possible or economically practical to swap the Lockheed hubs to the later Girling type with pressed fit studs. Somehow I doubt it is.  Might be easier just to find a later axle ?

Pete

 

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1 hour ago, Bfg said:

"I take it that your car ; TS9204, is an early TR3, with the Lockhead axle and square hubs...."

In theory, you are correct in your assumption. TS 9204 is indeed an early TR3 and originally, prior to its 1992-1994 body off (such as it then was) restoration, was equipped with Lockheed rear axle and front drums.

Fortunately for David, Mark Mason the restorer and third owner (1986-2008) decided to replace the rear differential and notoriously weak Lockheed half-axle shafts with the Girling back axle and the front drums with Girling discs.

But the later Girling has screw-type studs.  From the little I know, and Mickey confirms it, the press-studs were introduced for the TR4 and adopted from then on. I assume the TR4 front and rear hubs are the same as the Girling TR3-3A, but am not certain. We need Peter Wigglesworth.

Edited by DavidBee
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10 hours ago, DavidBee said:

In theory, you are correct in your assumption. TS 9204 is indeed an early TR3 and originally, prior to its 1992-1994 body off (such as it then was) restoration, was equipped with Lockheed rear axle and front drums.

Fortunately for David, Mark Mason the restorer and third owner (1986-2008) decided to replace the rear differential and notoriously weak Lockheed half-axle shafts with the Girling back axle and the front drums with Girling discs.

But the later Girling has screw-type studs.  From the little I know, and Mickey confirms it, the press-studs were introduced for the TR4 and adopted from then on. I assume the TR4 front and rear hubs are the same as the Girling TR3-3A, but am not certain. We need Peter Wigglesworth.

Screw in studs were indeed fitted to all solid axle cars on the rear, I have changed the ones on my solid axle 4a a number of years ago when I fitted the 10" rear drums and the Miniltes. You need to drill out the hub slightly to enable the studs splines to pull through until the rear flange pulls right up, I use Cambridge motor sport studs as I think theyre good quality. Your effectively using front hub studs. IRS cars use a different shape of pull in studs as they have a tapered flange so they are flush with the back of the hub when pulled right in.. The fronts have been pull in studs from the advent of discs on the front and available in long or short depending on steel or wire wheels.

As Mick has stated above all this information is available if you do a search

Stuart.

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Stuart.

CMS seem to do the 4A - 6 rear studs, & 2 - 6 front studs either ½" longer, or 1" longer  but not standard length.  which ones did you use ?

 

Bob.

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1 hour ago, stuart said:

Screw in studs were indeed fitted to all solid axle cars on the rear. You need to drill out the hub slightly to enable the studs splines to pull through until the rear flange pulls right up, I use Cambridge motor sport studs as I think theyre good quality. Your effectively using front hub studs. The fronts have been pull in studs from the advent of discs on the front.

Thanks so much, Stuart! I could have said "we need Stuart!". The benefit of the Register Forum, of having access to generous people in the know with so much experience, never ceases to amaze me. I am so glad I rejoined and wish I could be useful too in some way.

So actually, the mod only affects the rear hubs. Just for the sake of asking, would there be any point in replacing rear Girling hubs with stronger and/or lighter ones, if available? Or stick with those?

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1 hour ago, Lebro said:

Stuart.

CMS seem to do the 4A - 6 rear studs, & 2 - 6 front studs either ½" longer, or 1" longer  but not standard length.  which ones did you use ?

 

Bob.

For my Minilites I used the 1/2" longer front studs for front and rear and modified the rear hub holes to suit. obviously if you dont need the extra length you could cut them down but I really like them as they have better knurling than the usual suspects offerings and do seem stronger too.

Stuart.

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59 minutes ago, DavidBee said:

 

So actually, the mod only affects the rear hubs. Just for the sake of asking, would there be any point in replacing rear Girling hubs with stronger and/or lighter ones, if available? Or stick with those?

Nothing wrong with original Girling hubs, stick with them.

Stuart.

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Just ordered a set of 8 studs (+½")  & while I was there ended up ordering a set of their chrome moly pushrods, I am still on the original solid steel ones, which are too long now I have had the head & block skimmed, with these (you can shorten them to suit) I can take out the shims under my rocker pedestals.

Bob.

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4 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Just ordered a set of 8 studs (+½")  & while I was there ended up ordering a set of their chrome moly pushrods, I am still on the original solid steel ones, which are too long now I have had the head & block skimmed, with these (you can shorten them to suit) I can take out the shims under my rocker pedestals.

Bob.

They do some great stuff, trouble is every time I go on their site I end up spending a fortune!

Stuart.

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1 hour ago, stuart said:

Nothing wrong with original Girling hubs, stick with them.

Stuart.

:rolleyes: will do just that! Thanks!

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On 7/14/2021 at 9:01 PM, Bfg said:

No interest from the classified, so I've now listed the chassis on e-bay..

I'll do the same with the wheels tomorrow.

Pete.

Chassis is now sold  to Russell in the Cambridge area...   Thanks Russell. 

I do hope the work on your car goes well, perhaps we'll meet up some time as I enjoyed our conversation.

Cheers, Pete.

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