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Bore condition

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My engine came out of a fire damaged car, I know that some water had found its way into the block and it looks like their might be some water staining in some of the bores. There are also some other marks as shown in the second pic. Do these marks look serious or should I be ok with these bores? I also have a saloon block and I'm trying to decide which one to have reconditioned, this one hasn't done many miles and appears to have had the rotating parts balanced before assembly.

four.jpg

two.jpg

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Hi Ian,

good progress:)

You will probably remove most of it with fine sandpaper, like -600 grit. Clean with a rag and solvent. You should not feel any pits or scored surface after that. 

when you measure the bores you can decide if it needs boring to the next size or can be kept and do a simple hone.

Waldi

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Hi Ian,

I'm no expert but they don't look too bad to me. Can I see honing marks in the 2nd pic, or have you rubbed with fine sandpaper?

I see that the bores are already bored out to 60 thou so hopefully they dont need further boring.

Cheers,

Sean

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I haven't rubbed with anything other than a cloth Sean, they are honing marks.

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Ian,

Based on the colour of the pistons this engine has not run much... 

Waldi

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16 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Ian,

Based on the colour of the pistons this engine has not run much... 

Waldi

No, I believe it had only recently been built when the car it was in went on fire, the engine was then sat for some time as it had been bought for another project, that didn't happen and I bought it off eBay.

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It's hard from the photos to form a definitive opinion. You only want to be doing this once, so obviously it's best not to take chances.

With the engine out of the car, I would take it to a machining specialist and ask for the bores to be measured. Then you can decide what to do.

It's not quite on your doorstep, but I know a good machine shop in Rugby. Please let me know kind you want contact details.

Nigel

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24 minutes ago, Nigel Triumph said:

It's hard from the photos to form a definitive opinion. You only want to be doing this once, so obviously it's best not to take chances.

With the engine out of the car, I would take it to a machining specialist and ask for the bores to be measured. Then you can decide what to do.

It's not quite on your doorstep, but I know a good machine shop in Rugby. Please let me know kind you want contact details.

Nigel

Thanks Nigel, I will be having the engineering done, I own two blocks however and I have to decide whether to have this one reconditioned or the PI saloon block that I own done.

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Measuring the bores and pistons is not that difficult. A good bore dial gage can be bought for around 75 pounds. A micrometer will cost a bit less. Or borrow them. Just a thought.

Waldi

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14 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Measuring the bores and pistons is not that difficult. A good bore dial gage can be bought for around 75 pounds. A micrometer will cost a bit less. Or borrow them. Just a thought.

Waldi

The whole reason for pulling the block is down to corrosion particles Waldi, at the very least I need everything thoroughly cleaned, checked and reassembled. The PI Saloon block that I have has been sat without it's head for 6 months, I'd want it cleaning and inspecting too, I think the cost would be broadly similar whichever block I choose. I need to get the sump off the fire damaged one, I have an engine hoist but long enough bolts to mount it on an engine stand wont be here for a few days.

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Bore wear is generally at it's worst on the surface perpendicular to the crankshaft and halfway between TDC and BDC.

In the top photo the rings have worn through the honing marks and there appears to be scratches in this area.

As a minimum I'd clean up the bores with a hone and look at what was left. 

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Ian, you mentioned this in other posts before, the engine comes out a fire damaged car. Apparently there was water...

I would not hesitate a second, and the whole engine is taken apart. Bearings inspected, Bores honed...

Jochem

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Was the fire so severe that component hardness and flatness might have been affected?

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I have no details of the fire I'm afraid, I bought the engine from someone who had bought it to install in his Mk1 Vitesse, he decided to stick with his 1600 engine and sold the TR engine on to me.

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An engine block is not hardened, so annealing etc. should not be an issue. It is a pretty massive lump of steel, so it will take some time to bring temperatures up really high (say beyond 300C).

In my daily work I’ve been involved in damage assessment for steel equipment after severe fires, and we rarely find any degradation there. Good indications of a real fired engines would be molten aluminium alloyed parts (like thermostat house, TB’s), a warped valve cover, but especially burnt rubber seals etc.

Waldi

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