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Missing a steering lock stop


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Folks, while working on the front suspension on my TR4a, and noticed that the passenger side (right side) steering lock stop was missing. It looks like some time in the cars history the stop retaining bolt sheared off flush with the mounting hole on the trunnion. The drivers side steering lock stop is fine. 
Is it ok to continue driving with a single steering lock stop? I’m hoping the answer is yes, as it appears the only fix is to replace the passenger side trunnion, which probably means replacing driver side one as well. 

Thanks 

Jim

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Hi Jim,

           not a disaster.  The remaining stop will have some effect. Try not to go lock to lock.

In the future if you ever need to  strip the suspension down you can then drill out the stub from the TRunnion.  Shouldn't be too difficult. Steel in Bronze.

 

Roger

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Hi Jim, +1 for Rogers not going lock to lock and can I add especially when reversing as this is when the rear wishbone mount can be ripped off the chassis. Also Wide tyres make this even more likely as the changed geometry makes the tyres scuff.

Chris

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"Just curious, wouldn’t the single stop still provide lock-to-lock limits ? "

HHmmmmm now let me see, ...automotive manufacturer fits purely spurious extra part that incurs extra cost (not much maybe) and extra labour to fit (again not much but when you are talking multiple thousands...?) when they could get away by just fitting 1 of them ?  Surely this wouldn't be necessary ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzCMbulnXMg

I think we'd better work this out again.   

YES, the car needs the item on either side.

Mick Richards

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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Discovered both were missing from mine.

Still puzzled as to why I can’t fit them to my trunnions, which presumably why the previous owner didn’t fit them.

Going to strip down the front suspension and rebush it so will try and work it out.

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3 hours ago, Tr4aJim said:

Thanks, I will try and drill it out once I have better access.

Just curious, wouldn’t the single stop still provide lock-to-lock limits? 

Jim

Yes, don't panic,

have a closer look on the vertical links and you will see why this works.

Ciao, Marco

46 minutes ago, Andy Moltu said:

Discovered both were missing from mine.

Still puzzled as to why I can’t fit them to my trunnions, which presumably why the previous owner didn’t fit them.

Going to strip down the front suspension and rebush it so will try and work it out.

A screw holds it on the trunnions,

perhaps they are broken and a part of them is still in the thread.

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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Each lock stop is a thick steel washer with a drilling off-centre.  When it is rotated on its mounting it will lock the steering at a certain point, and minor adjustment to the angle of steering lock can be achieved by rotating the stop, then securing it in position.  This lock only operates in one direction, so one needs a lock on each side of the car, and each must be set correctly.

Ian Cornish

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I have attached a couple of steering lock images.The left one from TR Shop and the other from Moss. I thought it interesting that the Moss one has a bolt which is far too long - I know that it can be cut down, but...! Point of the images though is should the hole be more off centre than those shown. They are about 0.1mm off centre.

Many thanks,

Tim

20190418_085233.thumb.jpg.995c2a69ea426121e9b25053d1198720.jpg20190418_085352.thumb.jpg.f21d2283db2c72125a3b938deebfb01b.jpg

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The early 0degree trunnion lock stops are eccentric, as is the 3degree TR4 ones the later 3degree ones arent eccentric as they have a different trunnion.  They are also different heights. Revingtons do supply eccentric ones to fit the later trunnions but they dont fit straight out of the box and need a bit of grinding down to fit correctly. You also need to be careful with the setting of eccentric ones so the forward and back lock is set correctly as per the WSM.

Stuart.

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Many thanks Stuart. Why is nothing staightforward?! Are you saying that I can try these and use them if they give me the required setting?

Tim

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2 hours ago, Tim T said:

Many thanks Stuart. Why is nothing staightforward?! Are you saying that I can try these and use them if they give me the required setting?

Tim

If they are the taller ones then on your 5 yes but not on the 3a.

Stuart.

Edited by stuart
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Thanks for that. Yes they are twice the height of those on the 3.

Tim

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Mick, I am disassembling the front suspension in preparation to alleviate some of their questionable engineering decisions, so maybe having two stops was a mistake that got through design review!:rolleyes:

Stuart, here is a picture of the stop on mine. As Tim mentions, the stop is very slightly off center to the bolt. As my car is a 1965 Tr4a, should the stop be uniform? 

thanks

Jim

100B6B77-358B-493C-9878-8DF3FF806BA9.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Tr4aJim said:

Mick, I am disassembling the front suspension in preparation to alleviate some of their questionable engineering decisions, so maybe having two stops was a mistake that got through design review!:rolleyes:

Stuart, here is a picture of the stop on mine. As Tim mentions, the stop is very slightly off center to the bolt. As my car is a 1965 Tr4a, should the stop be uniform? 

thanks

Jim

100B6B77-358B-493C-9878-8DF3FF806BA9.jpeg

Early 4a`s seem to be in the middle, I had eccentrics on mine a 65 but later ones seem to have the straight drilled ones. Part numbers show the same as as TR5/6 so straight drilled.

Stuart.

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Hi Jim,

please allow me to use your lovely photo from the left side of your car. You can see there the "wings" or "anvils" left and right of the vertical link.

This is where the lock stop touches the vertical link - and stops - when you turn the steering wheel maximum left or right.

1499990535_lenkanschlge.jpeg.5295d1fc60632a8cb67bd065c705239f.jpeg

Believe it or not, the other wheel does also stop, eaven if the lock stop there is missing....

The stop locks are needed because the bolts through the wishbones otherwise will scratch the inside of the brake disc (please check!).

See my photos from 2017, when I had a closer look to write an article for the club magazin of the german TR IG Südwest.

I use replica center drilled lock stops.

342913259_Lenkanschlag-Nachfertigung-b.JPG.4c2cc92c2ad2659efea6d8002f0b516f.JPG

Next you see the bolt on the left side - front of the car, its head "looking" in the round "window" of the dust shield on full turn right.

Little more would be possible?

1110366229_BolzenSchwenklagervorne-b.JPG.fa14ca9a7a21686368ea3679cca9bd6f.JPG

Next see the right side - rear of the car - at the same moment. The castled nut is also "looking" in the long-round "window" of the dust shield on full turn left.

I guess some more is not a good idea...

875071832_BolzenSchwenklagerhinten-b.JPG.ad836f7e46026cd88338f3e3a295c970.JPG

To check the angel I built this "desk" under the right wheel.

(The coil spring is compressed with my Churchill tool, so the axle is in the  same position as when the car is on its wheels.)

153364826_ZeichentischunterderVorderachse-b.thumb.JPG.722e608a45765f00651c6d925b9d16f2.JPG

Than transfered the line of the brake disc with the yellow level tool on the paper.

The bolt / nuts are not scretching my brake discs and the angle of the right wheel as outher wheel (left turn) is about 25°, as inner wheel (right turn) is about 30°.

1780591710_Lenkwinkelaufgezeichnet-b.JPG.549d0845adafaa8da00c84d26940222f.JPG

That is close to the maximum that is told by the workshop manual.

1448551563_ausdemWerkstatthandbuchdesTR4A-b.thumb.JPG.80d4f1a7138a0eb189bdd3556d0b04f0.JPG

That's OK for me - and that's all about, no rocket technic at all......

Have much success with your work and joy with your TR. And please check if the bolts on you TR are the right way around.

Cioa / Cheers, Marco

Edited by Z320
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The great advantage of the eccentrically-drilled stop is that the setting for each side (left and right lock) can be adjusted precisely to ensure that nothing touches or interferes where it should not.

The centre-drilled stop is better than no stop at all, but does not permit any adjustment.

Ian Cornish

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Problem is the castled nut touching the brake disc.

With the excentic stop you can limit this for example on the left wheel for the left turn to avoid that - but with this you give the right turn 100% free!

So next you have to limit the right turn on the right wheel to avoid any damage there on the brake disc.

So with excentric stop locks you need stop locks on both trunnions. As Ian already told.

So good so fare.

With a concentric stop in the correct diameter you only need a stop on one trunnion for both turns.

OF COURSE you use two stops! But this allows you to loose one stop without any damage.

So my choise was to use concentric drilled stops. Is this a usefull idea?

 

Please be not fascinated from adjustable things!

 

 

Later, additional note: you could have / get / buy also an excentric stop with diameter and offset that makes no adjustment necessary  and allows you to use it in the middle position.

Edited by Z320
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FWIW When fitting the trunnion bolt always try and line the nut up so there is a "Flat" parallel to the disc and the split pin is inserted from top to bottom, this gives the most clearance possible. at full lock each way.

Stuart.

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I went on the TRF site to order new stops, but found that stops for a Tr4a (142403) are NLS. However they do list stops for a Tr6 (156111). Will these work on my car?

Jim

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