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Replacing dynamo with Dynator


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I've been asked by a friend with a TR3, if its possible to fit the large pulley/belt to one of these Dynators, as they all seem to come with the narrow pulley already fitted.  Would the wide original pulley fit if we take off the narrow one on the dynator?  He doesn't seem to want to change to the narrow belt.

Has anybody done this please, does the wide pulley have to be modified in any way.

There seem to be different makes of dynator, is one any better than the other, can any internal parts be obtained bought if there is a problem, or do you just have to buy another?

John

Edited by John L
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I run wide belts but the narrow one is far more convenient.

 

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Yes simply fit the wide pulley.  

Just done this job on a TR 3. Access is the challenge. Modified the control box with an internal wire so it looks unmolested.  

Cheers

Peter W

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Yes it will fit - but, alternator pulleys are usualy smaller in diameter, allowing faster rotation of the alternator rotor. this has the advantage of maintaining charge at tickover.

In the 1970's I fitted an alternator to my '3 when no narrow belt options were around. I made my own wide , but smaller diameter pulley on a lathe.

Bob.

Edited by Lebro
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Hi John, there have been numerous problems reported with the reliability of the Dynamotors but as these are often fitted to cars to maintain the original look they are often show cars and do very low mileage. It is well worth fitting the narrow belt especially if converting to an electric fan and removing the usually poorly balanced extension and there are many correct sized steel pulleys available as originally fitted to cars like the mini and ford  cortina. I’ve been running a dynamo for over 20 years and 70,000 miles with a narrow steel pulley. Not a lot of night driving but I have an electric fan and a big 74 amp Hr battery to allow ample reserve.

Chris

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Hi There,

In A few words, DON'T DO IT!

Send it back and get your money back. Read my post "think out of the box" in general area for reasoning behind the above statement.

Rod

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Also question the use of narrow belt conversions........

A quote in an advice letter for those of us doing the Liege Brescia Liege Rally this year.

If you have an early TR that has been converted to a narrow fanbelt, carry a spare water pump – the extra load required to tension the narrow belt knocks out water pumps on rallies. Run it as loose as you dare – if you can’t turn the pulley with your hand, it’s probably tight enough.

Iain

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Hi Iain,

      I think that may be a little bit of hysteria.

How many narrow belt conversions are there on our pumps (some of very dodgy quality at best).

Indeed carry spare belts and a pump

But if the belt is loose enough to allow the pulley to be turned by hand then it is too loose. It will slip and then fail.

 

The beauty of the narrow belt is that it easily flexes around the pulley and thereby imparts only a small amount of  pressure on the bearings.

What does that lumbering great fat belt impart on the bearing.

 

Hysteria mode off

Roger

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Whilst this subject is hot ....

What is the smallest alternator (size not capacity) that you can fit with enough ooomph to keep the elecs going. Oh yeah that won’t break the bank. I have heard some people use ones from little diggers?

I'm half way there with neg  earth and narrow belt. 

H

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I have used the Nippon Denso unit from a Kubota garden tractor.

A bit like this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTOR-ALTERNATOR-KUBOTA-Z402-Z482-AIXAM/263236351188?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D7acff47f23cb41a09f8f7064c2b859c5%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D263236351188%26itm%3D263236351188&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

 

...and yes you do have to create a mounting system and run extra wires.  and it looks inappropriate for the purists.  The car can be reverted back to dynamo if you wished.

 

Peter W

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On 4/15/2019 at 8:36 AM, John L said:

I've been asked by a friend with a TR3, if its possible to fit the large pulley/belt to one of these Dynators, as they all seem to come with the narrow pulley already fitted.  Would the wide original pulley fit if we take off the narrow one on the dynator?  He doesn't seem to want to change to the narrow belt.

Has anybody done this please, does the wide pulley have to be modified in any way.

There seem to be different makes of dynator, is one any better than the other, can any internal parts be obtained bought if there is a problem, or do you just have to buy another?

John

Hi John,

    the question must be asked - " why does your friend want to fit the Dynamator".

If he needs more current to run things then why not 'think out of the box' - just another thread that I've been thinking about.

If he changes all his lights to LED's then he will save himself nigh on 10 amps from his potential 22amp dynamo. This will leave more than enough for a cold, dark, wet winters night.

 On ebay there are headlamp H4 Led's for £20 a pair that work very well.  All the small lights are well established and Bob L can sort out the rear lights for not a lot.

Roger 

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Sorry peter couldn’t get your link to work. 

Is it this type of thing and can you have too many amps ?

Kubota 12v 40ah Alternator 16678-64012 Denso https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F333132294193

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I'm sure the above will be just fine, except for the description - 40AH   they mean 40 A    AH is a term used to describe a battery's capacity

Bob.

Edited by Lebro
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My personal view is that the dynamo lookalike alternators are compromised. There isn't enough cooling for the diode/regulator pack and failure is a real possibility. I know this because I had one and I had to replace the diode/regulator. It’s now safely stored never to be used again, replaced by a 60A Denso alternator. 

Edited by peejay4A
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53 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Hamish,

   too many amps will usually affect the size of the alternator. If they are not needed they do not get used.

 

Roger

Thanks roger. 

Last thing I need is to have a load of amps spilling out everywhere

 

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7 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi Iain,

      I think that may be a little bit of hysteria.

How many narrow belt conversions are there on our pumps (some of very dodgy quality at best).

Indeed carry spare belts and a pump

But if the belt is loose enough to allow the pulley to be turned by hand then it is too loose. It will slip and then fail.

 

The beauty of the narrow belt is that it easily flexes around the pulley and thereby imparts only a small amount of  pressure on the bearings.

What does that lumbering great fat belt impart on the bearing.

 

Hysteria mode off

Roger

Funnily?? its written by a well known supplier of TR parts and services......make of that what you will.:huh:

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6 hours ago, Hamish said:

Sorry peter couldn’t get your link to work. 

Is it this type of thing and can you have too many amps ?

Kubota 12v 40ah Alternator 16678-64012 Denso https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F333132294193

Hamish,

I have one of those installed (exactly the same) and it works perfectly.  If you need help with the wiring drop me a message.

Mounting it was dead simple as well.

Rgds Ian

PS mine came complete with the plug that you need (but it was brand new).

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6 hours ago, Hamish said:

Sorry peter couldn’t get your link to work. 

Is it this type of thing and can you have too many amps ?

Kubota 12v 40ah Alternator 16678-64012 Denso https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F333132294193

Try this new link - Just highlight it all then right click, open link.  it is selling new for £51.27 + £14.14 postage from Italy.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTOR-ALTERNATOR-KUBOTA-Z402-Z482-AIXAM/263236351188?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D7acff47f23cb41a09f8f7064c2b859c5%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D263236351188%26itm%3D263236351188&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

The one you highlighted is a good price too.

Peter W

PS I agree with Roger - go to LED lamps and you will probably not need an alternator.  It is the electric cooling fan that sucks the battery dry and it is mostly on when you are at tick-over, when the dynamo does not charge.....  That loops us round to the use  and substitution of an alternator on cars we use in traffic.  My own TR is regularly used on the great circular car park (M25) day and night in all weathers.  The wipers use 2 amps when running. The engine fan takes 10 amps, the headlamps and other light 12 amps and the heater 1. That's more amps demanded than your dynamo will supply at max charge.

It was driving in central London regularly in the traffic on winter evenings 20 years ago that convinced me the dynamo had to be beefed up or replaced. We now have them on all three of our TR's.

We can supply you with the wiring details if you do go down this route. You will need to add an ignition controlled supply to energise the unit, plus a new thick supply wire to supplement the existing dynamo main wire.  Control box mods are simple.  I have added a cigarette lighter socket (sat nav etc) and have a volt meter plugged in the tell me the state of the battery.  Over 13.5 amps is good when running.

Cheers

Peter W
 

 

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IF, You wish to go to alternator, you could do worse than read Ian C,s wonderful article on

TR technicalities, Totally idiot proof conversion detail.

My experience was that running in heavy rain, wipers on, H4's on, demister on and overdrive engaged, the O/D jumped out, collecting my

thoughts, and touching nothing else, I switched the wipers off and the O/D came back in.

 

Thats when I re-read Ian's article and did the conversion using a Lucas 17ACR, kind of kept it in the family.

No regrets in nearly 20 years.

John.

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Thank you folks

and sorry for hijacking the thread. 

I think I will leave it on my todo list for now. Esp. as the dynamo is new and I rarely run with a lot of electric on. 

Allow me to come back to you in the future if I may ?

 

h

Edited by Hamish
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Re; narrow belts, rallies and water pumps. 

I can only speak for my own experience, but I've rallied for thousands (and thousands) of miles in all kinds of conditions with a narrow belt conversion and never had any issue whatsoever with water pumps (or alternator bearings).

I don't even carry a spare pump, but certainly wouldn't criticize anyone for taking one.

I think Roger's comment on narrow vs wide is reasonable.  Also, I fit mine as "un-taught" as possible, which means I get the occasional belt-squeal when pulling away with all my big lights and fan on, but I can live with that. 

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John Morrison has mentioned my article on conversion to alternator - in my case, using a Lucas LRA101, as fitted to the TR7.  The alternator was fitted as part of the re-build, and the car went back on the road in summer 1993.

Some 20 years ago, the water pump pulley came loose while I was in Birmingham, and, on the journey home. shed metal filings all over the place, some going into the alternator.  After converting to narrow belt and cleaning up the mess, the alternator seemed OK.  However, in November 2017 the alternator started to perform intermittently, possibly as a result of the ingress of those tiny pieces of steel, so I sought a replacement.  ATP Electronics provided an equivalent of the Lucas 17ACR (lefthand mounting, even though it goes on the right for TR2-TR4A) for £49.90, including delivery.  This unit is rated at 50A - the Lucas LRA101 unit was 34A rating.

Ian Cornish

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