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Are all Standard Triumph 4cyl Blocks the same


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There seems to be a lot of different opinions on the big 4 cylinder block. some say they are all the same from tractor to vanguard phase 1 some say TR 2 and TR 4 Blocks are different.

I know the tractors had an oil filler on the side and some different places for dip sticks. But where there internal changes. Does it matter if you use a Stanard vanguard block and crank and put in up rated TR internals head etc. 

Thanks in advance 

Richie :-) 

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The biggest difference of course is the cylinder head studs which on some variants are 7/16 th instead of the 1/2 " of the TR blocks. Also there are Vanguard variants which have only short studs throughout instead of the central block having the four much longer studs, it is not to be underestimated how much extra strength the longer studs impart, effectively tying the bottom apron of the block together through the liner towers and into the cylinder head.  

When you measure the liner heights on a well used block it isn't unusual to find a difference of maybe 1 thou across the liner diameters  along the 4 liners down the block. This is because of the difference in the internal build of the block with it's extra material added to take the longer studs which stiffens one side of the block more than the other helping prevent the block material lifting along the cylinder block decks but only down that side. Out of all Vanguard blocks the closest to the TRs is the Vanguard Sportsman which has the 1/2" studs and apart from the different dip stick position which is behind the distributor as against the TR position which is in front of the distributor. I used this block with TR internals when I won my first TR Register championship in my TR4 and it will accept all the TR internals with no problems, however there were less than a 1000 examples of this rare Vanguard so you'll not find many examples of this block.

Mick Richards   

PS: Review the excellent TR Technicalities CD which you get when you join the TR Register, compiled by Ian Cornish, Ian Gibson and other luminaries of the then current TR scene you'll find a comparison of pistons, con rods, piston rings and yes blocks for many of these items. I still use their information on an ongoing basis, why try to reinvent the wheel. 

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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38 minutes ago, tr graham said:

Main difference between 2&4 is the number of camshaft bearings the later blocks have 5 I believe against 3 in earlier 

graham

Hi Graham,

                from TS8997 (TR3) there were three cam shaft bearings. prior to this the cam ran directly in the block.

 

Roger

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The block for the Ferguson is the sole structural member linking the tractor's front and rear axles, so is more massive than that for the Vanguard and TR.  Also the starter motor is on the left with what looks like an oil filler (or breather) mounted to the rear of the coil.

Figure 1 in my articles on the derivation of the TR's 4-pot engine has a side view of the tractor's engine (TR Actions 241 & 242, March & May 2010).

The earlier Vanguards, which had lower compression ratio than a TR and were not expected to rev as much, did not have a cross-drilled crank, had the head studs screwed into the top of the block (see Figures H2 and 2 in my article), and a camshaft of different dimensions.  Changes were made to overcome the problems revealed in extensive high speed testing undertaken by Ken Richardson.

The Vanguard Sportsman, which came later, was more akin to a TR3.

Ian Cornish

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  • 3 weeks later...

Richie,

You have messages marked above top of the page, where your name is. A review and answer may be to your advantage.

Mick Richards

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  • 2 weeks later...

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