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London Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ)


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21 minutes ago, barkerwilliams said:

Roger,

Can you honestly believe that it is possible / practicable to "allow" electric car ownership on a one-for-one basis with current car ownership? Or will car ownership be restricted, by cost perhaps to a few, with public transport for most people?

Alan

As Norman Tebbit said you can get on your bike to work! that's fine if its a few miles away not 30 plus all the mill, mine, the factory at the ends of the streets have shut down long ago.

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1 hour ago, RogerH said:

 

If electric cars take off then were indeed will all the extra power come from - it doesn;t grow on trees you know,

It gets worse. Can you imagine in a big city 100's of cars on charge at the same time. Multiply this by all the towns/cities shopping centres - that is a lot of current

 

 

I went to an EV seminar a few years ago, when I worked for a company who makes EV chargers for many of the big names. One of the speakers was suggesting that Heathrow should have all the roofs, and the empty spaces around the runways, covered with solar panels. EVs could be offered free parking if they allowed their battery charge to be used to power the airport during the night, on condition the battery was fully charged when the owner returned. Seemed quite logical, sine the airport has a pretty good idea when the driver of each car plans to return to the airport.

One of the additional problems with EV charging in a domestic situation is that most installations will not have the capacity for fast charging. There was a case a few years ago where an EV manufacturer was offering to install free chargers for their customers. One chap lived on  an upper floor in a block of flats, and the cost of the cable from his flat to his parking space would have been £6500!

Pete

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I'm lucky, I live outside the proposed wider ULEZ in one of the South London leafy suburbs, however I have begun to notice EV charging cables draped across some of the local pavements, (very few people have cars in their garages these days), can you imagine what it is going to be like when the cramped streets of inner London are full EV's with their cables all over the place like so much spaghetti!! .... yes I know there is the prospect of induction charging, but that will be for the next generation of EV's and the nightmare of infrastructure required.

Cheers Rob

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And what about some ne’er do well coming along with his bolt crops and stealing the cable. Presumably it has a good scrap value on the black market. Let’s face it they’ll steal the cables from electrified rail lines and they are carrying HV. When compared with the hazards associated with those, an EV charging cable is a doddle. 

Or am I being pessimistic?

Rgds Ian 

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My belief is that the future is not battery electric but hydrogen. Hydrogen needs electricity to produce it and can the be stored until needed. It is in effect a type of battery ie a power storage unit. Electricity for production can come from overnight supply where demand is very low and times when renewables are running at high production. Its quick to re-fill a car with hydrogen so no sitting around for 30 minutes while the battery re-charges or wires strung all over the place. Some have concerns about the dangers of hydrogen storage although 'm sure this isn't an insurmountable problem. The biggest issue is that of short term government views, if no pay-back in a couple of years it doesn't get done.

Tim

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"Some have concerns about the dangers of hydrogen storage although 'm sure this isn't an insurmountable problem. "

I'm glad the public has your assurance ! Hydrogen has been the "Eldorado" promised by the alternative fuels industry for the last 30 years ever since it's use in torpedoes and other military hardware but imagine the protests from those amongst us who find even Fracking too much of a risk ! So far it's only one of the stumbling blocks in it's way.

As to short term government views they are driven by the public, that's you and me who vote out the insurgents if they haven't given us what latest chimera takes our fancy, 4 years is long term in the Western world politics, haven't you noticed ?

Keep an eye on China, if Hydrogen can be used that's where it will happen first, they have a one party system and now with a lifetime president their long term is 20 or 30 years and just as with the Three Gorges dam project on the Yangtze ...knock knock ...Hello we are building an absolutely huge dam which will flood all this area for 20 miles around down the length of the river for untold miles...Oh and your town will be under 150 metres of water. A consultation period ? yes this is it, get packed the concrete mixers are here next Monday ! 

That's where a Hydrogen driven automotive industry will evolve first, driven by a lifetime president and a one party system with no kick backs from the public it's imposed upon. Truly marvellous innovations and advancements there can be made...Oh, and don't think Chinese c r a p they are very capable of making anything to the highest quality, it's just that you have to pay for it...and we don't want to. Either paying them to make it or ourselves either, hell we don't want to pay enough money for our own society to have the facilities it deserves.

Mick Richards 

 

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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If the environmental problem is considered on a global basis then the planet has far more potential solar and wind energy than we can envisage needing to power the planet. The issue is distribution and storage. Large solar farms installed in the deserts around the planet can produce hydrogen from seawater which is then transported by ships or pipelines to where it is needed. Offshore wind farms, the same. Local hydrogen distribution and storage with production of electricity by fuel cells in small "power stations" in shopping centres, offices, hospitals, factories, housing estates, villages etc. to minimise distribution losses. Electric vehicles for urban transport and hydrogen vehicles for rural transport and long distance trucks and buses. Aircraft can be powered by synthetic kerosene made from algae grown in desert areas using seawater. Save the fossil fuels for producing chemicals we can't get from elsewhere.

All achievable today with current technology. Scale, political will and a global approach to the problem is all that is required.

I will go back to dreaming that the human race can achieve great things if only we tried to get on with each other.

Mick

 

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I envisage a problem in the village where I live with electric cars. Most houses are old cottages with a 60 amp fuse supplying the house. This equates to about 14.5kwh. On fast charge, an electric car consumes 7kwh or about 30 amps. Basically don't switch on the cooker and a couple of heaters when charging your car or the main supply fuse to the house will blow.

No problem I hear you say - just put in a bigger fuse say 100 amp. Bit like putting a nail in a plug if the fuse keeps blowing. The drawback is that the whole village is supplied by overhead power cables on a system that is 50 or 60 years old. If every home decided to have an electric car (and had to update their supply fuses) then I envisage the overhead cables glowing red. Might keep the birds warm in winter though.

I would also have to rethink the wiring in the house and have a dedicated circuit for a charger (I have dedicated circuits for the cooker, immersion heater that we rarely use, gas boiler and a separate one for the garage). This would mean an extra fused line and the consumer units are full.

I'll stick with the TR and my other petrol engined daily transports as long as I can. 

Keith

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That's kW Keith, power, not kWh, which is energy. You're right though, the infrastructure cannot support significant numbers of EVs on fast chargers.

The DNOs (Distribution Network Operators) in the UK plan for an average consumption per house of 6kW, somewhat less than the requirement for a fast charger. Of course, when they've persuaded everyone in your village to have a smart meter, your electricity supplier will be able to switch people off to keep the total demand down and prevent the wires glowing red hot...

Pete

 

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