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Looking for a 'space-saver' wheel for the TR6..


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Yes, i have one in my boot.

it came from ebay and was from a volvo v40 i think, needs different nuts to the minilights but otherwise a straight fit.

i can try to find the details if that helps.

any minute now there will be a reply flaming this as a very bad idea, insurance etc

steve

 

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I have an original steel wheel with a really good tyre if you want it 

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7 minutes ago, Panch said:

Hi Steve, yes that would be really helpful if you wouldn't mind digging out the details please.. thanks.. :D

Panch 

Since i bought this in 2017 the ebay item isnt available to view anymore.

it was from  volvo s40 and cost £30 in as new condition.

have a search on ebay and check its 4 stud and the correct pcd.

sorry i couldnt dig up the exact details

steve

 

 

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Thanks Paul... but I'm specifically after a spacer-saver. She's got a bit of an audio system going in her and I'm going to be pushed for space, so will need the additional room in the wheel well that should hopefully be generated by using the space-saver rather than a full size wheel.. :D I'd just carry a can of tyre-weld, but would prefer to have some kind of spare, just in case..!

Panch

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Hi Panch,

              this topic was raised a couple of years back. The general consensus was that as the TR6 never had a space saver wheel/tyre and thus no approval it would be a no no to use one.

MOT-wise all wheels/tyres must be the same size except for the space saver. But if it is not approved how can you fit it (even if it is sensible.)

 

Speak to your insurer and possibly your MOT garage.

 

No allowing a space saver is purely a paperwork issue. But the law runs on paperwork.

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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Hi Panch,

This is an awkward area. 

If you speak with an insurer you have to make them aware you are fitting a non standard different sized wheel and tyre which doesn't comply to Construction and Use regulations, there are many of them who have little expertise in such an area. They insure cars all the time which have different sized spare wheels. 

We drive our cars on the roads surrounded by modern cars who use "space saver spare wheels and tyres, that means we can use them also as long as the PCD and the offset allows us to...right ?  There are even cars (Mercedes come to mind ) where their standard roadgoing tyres have different sizes on the front to the rear of the car, and they only supply one size spare so odds are you'll be using a different size at some time. With TRs that means when we can't get an oversize spare wheel and tyre into the letter box which is the TR2/3/3a/3b spare wheel compartment or in your case filling the spare wheel well on a TR6 with other equipment the handy application of a space saver spare wheel and tyre from one of the many moderns carrying them which now inhabit scrapyards, keeps us safe and gets us home legal...right ?

On new cars the only organisation who can decide whether to supply a space saver wheel and tyre is the manufacturer of the car who covers the supplied wheel and tyre within its "Whole vehicle type approval" certification. This makes them responsible for designing and building cars and trucks which comply and are safe to use. EVERY model of car and truck sold is tested with it's different specifications, for example a different exhaust fitted will change the engine emissions so that vehicle will be tested with the variations of exhaust etc. This testing is costly and on an individual model basis so manufacturers are keen only to test and certify vehicles they will sell numbers of. For wheels and tyres this means they get a derogation ( get out of jail free card) from the UK Construction and Use requirements which have been in use since 1936 (with updates) which state it's illegal to use different size wheel or tyres on the same axle (includes independent suspension).
They get the derogation having supplied technical proof the wheel and tyre supplied by them as a space saver has been tested in use and approved as satisfactory over a short journey and limited mph when used with the other tyres on the car meeting certain minimum braking and grip requirements. They then cover the space saver within their product liability plan so that when it blows out and catapults your car onto the East Coast line causing a Dual train derailment which kills multiple people and costs the insurance company £22 million quid ( Google the Selby train crash) the Police and the courts have somebody with enormous financial resources to pay the fine.
Unfortunately Triumph never manufactured any cars under the "Whole Vehicle " scheme (it came in 1994 from memory) with a space saver specified and approved and apart from them not even being an entity now there isn't any covering plan to allow anybody to fit a wheel which contravenes Construction and Use regulations as regards being a different size and type to the other wheels and tyres on the car.
I spent the last 25 years of my career developing specialised commercial vehicles and "tap dancing" my way through " Type Approval " requirements on vehicles and bodywork, including testifying in two cases where operators had changed vehicle specification from that supplied contravening those regulations, in one case it being the cause of an accident.

The WVTA confirms the vehicle can meet braking and handling requirements when fitted with a non standard space saver, the TRs were never tested or submitted for space saver testing (it didn't exist), so there is no derogation which allows a variation from the Construction and Use Regs (commonly called C&Us) so any fitment of odd size wheels and tyres whether a slightly different 145 as against 165 on a sidescreen TR or a fitment of a space saver from a modern vehicle makes the vehicle illegal.

Let me explain an example. I have a Mk1 Ford S Max which does not come with a spare wheel and tyre, they are supplied with a tyre inflater and chemical tyre repair outfit, because of this many S Max owners carry a Mondeo space saver and jack...that's illegal...and dangerous, the S Max is heavier than the Mondeo and the space saver could collapse.

Because I tow I carry an electric scissor jack (rated at 2500 kgs, the S Max is Heavy) and a full size wheel and tyre of the correct type and rating. All S Max owners have moaned through the years about a lack of a spare wheel and eventually Ford have listened and with the Mk3 introduced about 12 months ago it now has a space saver and jack supplied. So ...a flood of letters on the S Max forum from owners of Mk 1 and Mk2 S Max owners asking where can they get a Mk3 space saver and jack from, but to no avail !

Because although a Mk3 has been tested under Whole Vehicle Type Approval for a space saver and has a derogation allowing a different size wheel and tyre fitment, Mk1 and Mk2 S Max haven't been tested under WVTA and so are not covered under a derogation allowing contravention of Construction and Use "same size and type wheels and tyres on the same axle".

No of course it doesn't matter, ...until you have an accident and the forensic examiner checks the Ford build spec records and notes there was no space saver supplied with a Mk1 or Mk2 and your vehicle now contravenes Construction and Use regs and it becomes the basis of a prosecution, and your insurer checks with the underwriter..etc etc.

Sometimes having a technical a r s e ache is preferable to the alternative. 


Micky

 

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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You're welcome Panch, nice to see someone receiving the knowledge in the manner of which it's been given. Hope you find a suitable position for the audio.

Mick Richards

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I suspect that the audio will win out and I'll be carrying a can of tyre weld and an inflator in future... :rolleyes:  Thanks for all the advice everyone.. much appreciated

Panch 

p.s. Steve, you were right in your first post regarding a subsequent post on legality/insurance etc.. you've obviously been here before... :D

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Panch,

Ignoring the legal and insurance issues, which in my opinion is a bad idea, a practical consideration is simply that should you get a puncture and need to fit your ‘space saver’ spare wheel, where are you going to put the full size wheel you have just removed? You’ve told us that there is no space for a full sized spare wheel to be carried.

David

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I would hide the broken wheel /tyre anywhere until tomorrow and spend the evening and night with my wife at the hotel or at home - better than all together (us and the /:;(€&@! tyre) a night out in the nowhere....

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Just join a recovery service. 

So few cars today carry a spare and if any tyre goes on a motorway a can of tyreweld or similar isn’t going to fix it as the side walls are normally shot. 

So the recovery people are used to tyre issues. 

H

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All fair points... I've got breakdown... can't imagine any of us who own 'classics' not having it to be honest! :D but could stick the spare wheen behind the seats as a temporary solution to get me home I thought.. the legalities worry me more actually rather than the practicalities.. I can totally see why it would be very unlikely to be an issue.. but knowing my luck, I'd be the one bugger who comes a cropper with this and ends up in a messy court case.. for me personally, it's probably not something I'm comfortable with risking.. :D  Thanks for all the opinions and information all.. 

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I’m in the US, so the car models might be different, but I use the space saver from a 2011 Nissan Sentra. It’s a 16” rim, which partially compensates for the lower tire height. New/unused on Ebay for $50. 

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2 hours ago, Litespud said:

I’m in the US, so the car models might be different, but I use the space saver from a 2011 Nissan Sentra. It’s a 16” rim, which partially compensates for the lower tire height. New/unused on Ebay for $50. 

I was never so surprised to learn that the US which as a country has a culture which has the most litigations raised for almost any country on earth, bye passes the requirement to have vehicles built to a uniform specification and conform to safe technical requirements. (certainly as regards having tyres and wheels the same size or otherwise confirmed as safe).

Mick Richards    

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Yeah, and I submitted my TR4 for MOT some years back and forgot it had a 13" TR7 wheel I was transporting in the spare wheel well which was ticked off and it's tread measured as being OK ! That's the degree of detail an MOT man gives to whether or not the spare wheel and tyre is correct for the vehicle.

Not really pertinent I think, and although you are recounting what happened to yourself there are some owners who will use such a tale as support rather than having to make a decision which isn't convenient for them, as in carrying a legal spare which complies with ALL legislation.

Mick Richards

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A number of years back our local group set off en-mass for the Le Mans Classic. One member in his TR4 had been carrying round a skinny wheel with a 2CV tyre on it in the boot for years but decided for this trip as there were so many of us he would even ditch even this in favour of more spares and tools. On the way home he got separated and ended up taking a different route to the ferry and, yes you have already guessed it, got a puncture which destroyed the tyre. He eventually made it back to the UK at a very high cost.

Is there a moral here?

Mick

Edited by Mick Forey
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/7/2019 at 2:51 PM, Motorsport Mickey said:

I was never so surprised to learn that the US which as a country has a culture which has the most litigations raised for almost any country on earth, bye passes the requirement to have vehicles built to a uniform specification and conform to safe technical requirements. (certainly as regards having tyres and wheels the same size or otherwise confirmed as safe).

Mick Richards    

The US is an odd mix indeed. New cars are subject to endless rules and regs, although there are strange quirks - for example, there is no standard that I can see for indicator lights - some have yellow, some have red, some appear to essentially have the brake lights double as indicators, so you can’t be sure if the car ahead is indicating a turn or if one of his brake lights is faulty. Maybe it’s a state thing - individual states impose their own regs. Some states require front and rear reg plates, some require only a rear plate. Some states have rigorous annual safety and emissions inspections, some require an inspection only when the car changes hands, some have no inspections at all. In my own state (NC), inspections vary even from county to county - my county requires no emissions, while the next county over does. When you get into the realm of classic cars, things are even more varied. In NC, where “regular” cars are inspected annually, my TR6 requires no inspections. Even in the East, it’s like the Wild West :-)

Edited by Litespud
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