AndyR100 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Hi all..... replacement head gasket has only lasted 12 months, looks like The liner-heights need sorting this time. From a practical perspective, how viable is this job (head off/sump off/protect crank/pistons-liners out/measure/refit) in a single garage and leaving the engine in the car? I understand it’s easier to take it out, but I just won’t be able to handle the logistics. Any advice from folk who have done it in situ would be greatly appreciated...... even if the answer is ‘it’s a PITA’ Thanks in advance...... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 I did this a few years ago. No problem other than protecting the crank from all the cr4p hiding between the liners and the block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Drewmotty said: I did this a few years ago. No problem other than protecting the crank from all the cr4p hiding between the liners and the block. Thanks Andrew, good to know....I figured it was likely to be case of stuffing as many old (clean) rags in as possible, any top-tips you found to keep the crud off the crank? cheers.... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Piece of cake ! Clingfilm is your friend, got the clue ? You can cover and wrap in whichever way you want, if you don't want c r a p in it cover it with tape or clingfilm. Having broken or destroyed these engines in many different ways I have a high regard to how they can be broken down into component parts "in car" and rebuilt, back in the day they were our only car and needed to be back together for Monday so we could go to work ! The liners need pulling with a heavy duty threaded bar with a "plug mandrill" turned so that is has a shoulder to pick up on the liner skirts which protrude through the block underneath. My plug is made from 3/4" thick alloy with the outside dia some 10 thou less than the liner spigot dia to pass through the block and then a shoulder machined into it at 86mm dia to pick up on the liner inside dia. Use pipe or spacers (old gudgeon pins are just the job) slipped over the cylinder head studs and a fulcrum bar drilled clearance to studs that you slip over the studs on top of the gudgeon pins with a central spacer hole for the threaded rod to pass through and then just wind them out. They will need to come up by a couple of inches before you can wiggle the liners gently out, I presume you'll clean up the top of the block and measure liner heights before going for it ? Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 I wrapped tape around the big end journals and packed grease followed by rag around the main bearing caps. I tapped my liners out with a length of timber on the spigots. I got away with it without cracking lumps out of them but certainly some sort of simple puller will be much kinder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Hi Mick, thanks for taking the time to reply, I don’t think I would have thought of clingfilm - great idea! yes, I have a note of your previous descriptions to triple-check the liner protrusions with multiple fittings and clamping down in between, I’ll take the time to get it right. Thanks for he extra pointers Andrew, much appreciated! the encouragement received has raised my confidence-levels to get on with it! Cheers...... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) I favour Racetorations composite head gasket: http://www.racetorations.co.uk/triumph-c56/tr3-c4/tr3-gaskets-c643/engine-c646/racetorations-composite-cylinder-head-gasket-p71 ....and copper figure of eight gaskets fitted with Wellseal. Edited March 30, 2019 by Drewmotty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Last time I used a regular gasket from the TR Shop, but I had seen the Racestorations updated one, I think TR shop have a similar offering, but no idea if they are actually the same or not - certainly worth considering while it is all apart. I have buckets of Wellseal from my Stag-owning days, it is my favourite as well! cheers.... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJC Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 We did exactly this job last year. Micky’s instructions very helpful. I found having two sets of FO8 seals useful. You’re bound to wreck one or two before you get the liner heights set. Also found a flat and feeler gauges the best way to measure liner heights. Wellseal works on the Fo8 seals. Good luck. JJC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david ferry Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Andy, Before you remove the liners etc, it may be worth measuring the liner heights and seeking advice. You’re going to have to remove the cylinder head whatever you do. it is possible that you may be able to solve your problems by simply using the ‘modern’ cylinder head gasket from Racetorations - the one mentioned by Drewmotty. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chilliman Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Quote Last time I used a regular gasket from the TR Shop, but I had seen the Racestorations updated one, I think TR shop have a similar offering, but no idea if they are actually the same or not - certainly worth considering while it is all apart. They are similar but not the same, I've used both but remember unlike the solid copper gaskets that can be annealed & re-used these are a one fit only which gets very expensive if you are likely to need to remove the head again for any reason.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 10 hours ago, JJC said: We did exactly this job last year. Micky’s instructions very helpful. I found having two sets of FO8 seals useful. You’re bound to wreck one or two before you get the liner heights set. Also found a flat and feeler gauges the best way to measure liner heights. Wellseal works on the Fo8 seals. Good luck. JJC Many Thanks for the advice regarding contingency fo8’s - excellent idea! Cheers.... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, david ferry said: Andy, Before you remove the liners etc, it may be worth measuring the liner heights and seeking advice. You’re going to have to remove the cylinder head whatever you do. it is possible that you may be able to solve your problems by simply using the ‘modern’ cylinder head gasket from Racetorations - the one mentioned by Drewmotty. David Thanks David, in 99% sure the liners have dropped so carefull build up per Micks checklist is in the plan... and will look carefully at which gasket to go with cheers..... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Chilliman said: They are similar but not the same, I've used both but remember unlike the solid copper gaskets that can be annealed & re-used these are a one fit only which gets very expensive if you are likely to need to remove the head again for any reason.... Hi John, thanks for confirming about the gaskets..... quite right, it could get rather expensive for multiple changes with the updated ones as they are not designed for reuse. cheers.... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Hi Andy, I use a round bar (1/2" silver steel) and feelers to check the liner height. The round bar will stay consistently level with the liner top. It is possible to tilt a flat bar and get an iffy reading. When you get the liners out do everything you can to ensure that the seats in the block are as clean as you can get them. If you find any minor(ish) corrosion pits in the block seats then, as you do not want to remove the block, fill them with JBWeld. It does nothing for the strength & quality of the block but will give a flat, leak free seal surface. You may well find reason to replace the liners and pistons - the TRShop do very good basic packages that last 100,000's miles. Assuming the head and block are flat then the TRShop head gasket is very good. Again use the round bar and feelers plus a decent light source on other side to see very small gaps. I use a length of silver steel as they are supplied nice and round. have alook at the areas in the block around the stud holes. These can pull up and cause the gasket not to seal too well. Check for any cracking - at the oil hole for the head supply to the nearest stud hole is common. Regarding Fo8 seals - the thickness range comes in material types. The 0.015" is steel Copper is 0.018" and Ali is 0.021" (very possibly) The steel Fo8 works perfectly well for 15/20 years - don;t get anal about copper seals. If you need a special thickness in copper then make your own. There was a post about this the other day. Don;t forget to re-torque after 500 miles or so. Good luck Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, RogerH said: Hi Andy, The steel Fo8 works perfectly well for 15/20 years - don;t get anal about copper seals. Good luck Roger Anneal Roger, Anneal ........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Hi Roger, thanks for the extra points.... and the jb weld tip, I’ll check the head visually but probably give Classic & Modern a call for a proper test (they aren’t far away) and take the head-situation from there im sure more dumb questions will follow in due course cheers.... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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