TR4 AJJ Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 Hi All, My TR has developed a couple of worrying noises and both at the same time. One was a knocking noise when pulling away and the other a scratching sound. I replaced the two rear hubs as I was pretty sure it was a rear wheel bearing and the good news is that the knocking has gone ... the **** news is; the scratching sound is still there. I thought that was going to be the bearing but clearly not. It’s definitely a drive noise as with the clutch down whilst driving, it instantly goes (so not engine). It only comes in 1st & 2nd gear as pulling away or when going around a corner (that’s when it loudest). Sounds like when you have a rusty spot on brake disk, a metal-on-metal scratching that gets quicker with the speed of the car and then once up to 20mph it goes. Any ideas ?? Thanks in advance Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 Hi Andy, I'm afraid I can't offer any definitive suggestions of what it might be, but maybe some additional diagnostic things you can try. If it's possible to either have someone else drive the car, especially in an alley way or something, while you listen on first one side, then the other that might help to identify where it comes from (e.g. drive shaft on one side or the other). Does the cornering make the sound different if turning left or right, or is it the same? Also, try raising the rear of the car VERY SECURELY on axle stands (stable and with front wheels chocked) and run the car in gear and have a listen in various places. Finally, have a look underneath around all the rotating parts (prop shaft, drive shafts etc.) and see if there is a shiny area anywhere that is evidence of rubbing... Those are the things I would do; but perhaps someone with this exact experience might come along and tell you what it is!! Tim p.s. a couple of other things came to mind while I was posting: there is a small "tin" plate at the bottom of the bell housing between gearbox and engine - this is easily bent and can rub on the flywheel - can be intermittent. Is there any chance that the starter motor is rubbing ever-so-lightly on the flywheel? Ok, that's all I have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 wheel rotation frequency or propshaft frequency (~4x faster)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted March 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 Thanks Tim ~ some good suggestions. It did start a while after going over a very high speed bump (slowly). The exhaust scratched as going over (as it has before) but it could well have been a something else I guess. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to take it for another drive Saturday and investigate sound more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted March 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, ctc77965o said: wheel rotation frequency or propshaft frequency (~4x faster)? Hmmm ... I’m not entirely sure. I’ll need to pay more attention but it sounds like it’s central. My initial thoughts was clutch but that is working fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, TR4 AJJ said: Thanks Tim ~ some good suggestions. It did start a while after going over a very high speed bump (slowly). The exhaust scratched as going over (as it has before) but it could well have been a something else I guess. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to take it for another drive Saturday and investigate sound more. If you moved the exhaust a little, it could be that it's prop (or drive) shaft on pipe - coming off power would shift the engine slightly and, therefore, the exhaust Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted March 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, TorontoTim said: If you moved the exhaust a little, it could be that it's prop (or drive) shaft on pipe - coming off power would shift the engine slightly and, therefore, the exhaust I like this idea .... mainly because it doesn’t sound like an expensive fix. It does fit in with how the noise comes and I guess it would also get louder when turning as I guess there’s some more movent. I’ll jack it up Saturday and see if there’s any place where exhaust & prop meet cheer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith1948 Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Follow up on Toronto Tim's suggestion - check engine and gearbox mountings. Engine is quite a lump of iron and will move sideways as you turn and this will alter position of exhaust. Often thought that bracing to top of engine would be a good idea on these cars. Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Check your engine mounts are fitted the right way round, I have seen the 4a type fitted 90degrees out and the engine can then twist sideways. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4TUNE Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Andy, On a bit of a noise theme today..... I have been troubled with scratching noises and each time it was due to a pebble stuck behing the front disc brake back plate. Sometimes resolved by reversing other times by insertion of a small screw driver to loose the pebble. The noise sounds much worse than a pebble...more like a whell bearing at point of collapse! Hope it is a simple answer. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted March 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Thanks guys ~ lots of things to consider and check tomorrow. i did stick my phone on video under there last night on a stick. Watching it I was concerned there seems to be a lot of oil on and around the gearbox .... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Keith - many years ago, I devised a simple brace to steady the engine on my TR4, and it can be found in TR Action 130 and pages G15-G19 of the Technicaties CD. It would work on a TR4A as well as a TR4, but not on TR2-TR3A because the chassis is narrower and the geometry would be compromised. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith1948 Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 10:26 AM, stuart said: Check your engine mounts are fitted the right way round, I have seen the 4a type fitted 90degrees out and the engine can then twist sideways. Stuart. Hello Stuart Just debating whether to fit round or square engine mounts. Round are easy - no particular orientation needed. However looking at the square mounts.... 1. I assume the U-shaped side fits downwards onto chassis mount. 2. I then assume that the mount fits pointing up and down (long axis) rather than back to front. 3. Next question is, the studs are offset. So does the shorter or longer offset point up? The studs don't line up as on the round mounts (where both are in the centre). 4. Are the square ones better because if they fall apart, the U shape stops the engine dropping too far and causing the fan extension to foul the steering rack? Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, keith1948 said: Hello Stuart Just debating whether to fit round or square engine mounts. Round are easy - no particular orientation needed. However looking at the square mounts.... 1. I assume the U-shaped side fits downwards onto chassis mount. 2. I then assume that the mount fits pointing up and down (long axis) rather than back to front. 3. Next question is, the studs are offset. So does the shorter or longer offset point up? The studs don't line up as on the round mounts (where both are in the centre). 4. Are the square ones better because if they fall apart, the U shape stops the engine dropping too far and causing the fan extension to foul the steering rack? Keith They do indeed fit in the up/down orientation with the "U" to the chassis and IIRC the engine side stud is above the chassis side one. They are the supposed "Fail safe" version however when I restored my 4a 26 yrs ago all that was available then was the round ones (albeit in BL blue boxes so possibly better quality than available now) They lasted up till last year when the engine came out to cure oil leaks and fit larger pistons when they were changed for the larger Landrover round ones. The originals were still found to be good albeit very slightly squashed and they have had some stick over the years. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 Good question and alough the verbal description is detailed a photo of the correct installation would be much appreciated if anyone has one. thanks Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith1948 Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 Thanks Stuart Excellent answer. I have had round ones on for about 25 years or more so they have done well. However the clearance between the fan extension and steering rack is now only about 3mm so the 13mm thick fan belt won't slide between the two. The square mounts are about 3mm thicker than the round ones I have bought so might try them with a spacer to get a bit more height now I know which way round they fit. However not quite that simple because raising the front of the engine might mean I need to raise the radiator a bit as well and it might also result in a bit of adjustment of the exhaust pipe. Also fitting a spacer or two alters the geometry between the engine mounts since they are on an angle. Bit like a Rubiks cube - alter one bit and it affects other bits. Coming back to the original post (sorry Andy for side tracking) check the rear diff mountings. I had the offside (right hand side) front mounting split once and that caused diff to move about and make a clonking noise. Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NigelH Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Hi Andy I has a scratching / scraping noise at low speed, it turned out to be the prop U/J's. Nigel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 If the diff mounts are soft the propshaft can move sideways under torque and catch the LH side of the steel U shaped prop guard, this is normally more pronounced when turning left. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 I believe, although not 100% yet, that my scratching noise has gone. I ‘think’ it was the UJ on the near side rear axle. It was either that or that my wife wheels were not tight enough. Mine came only when turning right though, not left. One of my other threads (sorry, I appear to have hijacked the forum), was all about having to change this UJ whilst in France. I’ll need to do a little more driving around to be certain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Andy - I am intrigued/puzzled. Why is your wife equipped with wheels, where are they fitted (ignore if too personal!), and why had you not tightened them sufficiently! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4 AJJ Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, ianc said: Andy - I am intrigued/puzzled. Why is your wife equipped with wheels, where are they fitted (ignore if too personal!), and why had you not tightened them sufficiently! Ian Cornish Ha ha .... note to self ... proof read prior to posting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, ianc said: Andy - I am intrigued/puzzled. Why is your wife equipped with wheels, where are they fitted (ignore if too personal!), and why had you not tightened them sufficiently! Ian Cornish Best not to mention "Mine came only when turning right though, not left." then Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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