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Seeing Roman Britain by TR2


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27 minutes ago, PaulAnderson said:

David,

by chance this article https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/mithras-0013010 on the temple of Mithras came up in the Apple News App on my iPad today. 

my copy of the book ‘Seeing Roman Britain’ has also now arrived.

Paul

Thank you, Paul! It seems a strange cult to me, Mithraism, but maybe it wasn't to the Roman Army squaddies. Why? There was a sacrificial offering, a male god, it narrowed down devotion to and religious belief to a single god. It was quite a rival to early Crhristianity, because it was also monotheistic. It was also international, travelling "abroad" with the Army. It was secretive. My uninformed, lazy, guess is that it may never have been researched. Certainly, many temples have been found in several countries.

Yes, this one in the port of Ostia is on ground level, alongside the main building, in a lean to.

The one I referred to earlier is mentioned too. In or under the church of Saint Clement in Rome.

As it was an illegal cult, it is no surprise that later the temples were underground.

I didn't know they could house a well, but it makes sense, as water was useful for washing, ablutions, during sacrificial rites.

That they included trance-like states would have been a big attraction, like Gospel style Christian worship. A literal communion with the Godhead!

The temples were smallish. Accomodating 30 or so worshippers sitting  or perched along two rows of benches positioned lenghtways in an oblong shaped room with an altar at one end. And yes, imported from Persia (modern Iran), just as the cult of Isis was imported from Egypt and mainly attracted women.

But then, so was Christianity imported to Europe, from the Middle East.

 

Edited by DavidBee
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15 minutes ago, John McCormack said:

Finished the book. My wife and I have visited many of the sites and want to get to the ones we missed. I can see a UK trip coming up when the lockdowns end.

Well, it will require a concerted effort, that's for sure. I can help with the research, the writing, liaising with our PR and Editor, Wayne Scott, as and when. There are the logistics. One thing is a group of thirty, quite another a larger group, if the idea catches the TR imagination. And the specific route? So much. I wouldn't underestimate the amount of work. But maybe I'm wrong. B)

Edited by DavidBee
God is in the detail, said a famous scholar.
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John, I realize I misunderstood you. You are planning a trip anyway! What a good idea. Is that right? If so, you could help  by documenting the route photographs which could then go into the proposed Press Pack and material for a pre-Run article. (The post-run Report would have to have new material.).

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On 5/2/2020 at 9:51 AM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Expand it further into Europe mainland and visit the remaining bridges

https://followinghadrianphotography.com/2017/04/02/roman-bridges/

The site includes the following link: http://hadrianswallcountry.co.uk

This other site features a detailed map of roads along or near the full stretch of Hadrian's Wall and most notably, details of several museums dotted along the way, for example,

1. Housesteads Roman Fort & Museum (Haydon Bridge, Hexham, Northumberland, NE47 6NN)

2. Chesterholm Museum, Bardon Mill, Northumberland, NE47 7JN (Nearest major road is A69. Follow the brown signs from the A69 at Bardon Mill or from the B6318).

I think Peter's idea is very ambitious, but wonder if it would be too much to organize.

I had a look at many of the bridges shown. What struck me was that there are several engineering typologies, from small hump-backed minor ones, to very wide spanning bridges, to pointed arch bridges, to buttressed ones and more still. Then again, their construction spanned several centuries. I didn't get as far as checking if any of them made use of concrete, which figures in other Roman era building construction. Should there be a consensus to go for this particular plan, what it has going for it is that you can drive along scenic routes coasting the Wall, and stop along the way. My guess is that more than three museums in one day wouldn't go down well. Could be too much to take in for a large group. Judging from the photographs, the views are stunning and one would surely get a sense of scale. But it would take museum visits to really bring the Wall to life in terms of its original context and surrounding life, as expressing part of Roman culture, or (army) life in the provinces One alternative would be to follow the tracks of the book, as originally suggested. It would probably have other advantages and so I personally wouldn't discount it. I would be curious to hear what other people think Another approach would be to open the tour to non-members. This would allow others to appreciate TRs in action, and thus promote our Club, as well as enjoy the trip ourselves as an existing group. Should anyone be keen on following up the Hadrian's Wall suggestion, the thing to do would be check the roads on the map supplied on both sites, and draw up an itinerary, using the Roman museums as stopping points (some have tearooms and the like, not very Roman) and post that map and plan in this thread.

 

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I am fortunate to have a Roman Fort within half a mile of my house and it is one of many all the way to Glasgow at Bearsden.. Th bath house re-discovered in the 1970's is spectacular.

There is a very good Time Team episode about the large camp at Drumlanrig castle which gives an insight in the Roman way of thinking as they moved towards the world renowned Glasegian Hospitality. not so much for the Romans who after trying to maintain the Antonine wall decided to move south again to the comparative safety of Hadrians wall. I think they did not find either people or climate to their liking.

Whilst it is riveting to find out about Roman Britain and more is excavated each year I had the opportunity to travel to Italy and visit Both Pompeii and Herculanum over time . As an insight into the fabulous opulence there is little to beat seeing them in the flesh. The colours are fibrant to this day and must have been positively gaudy back in the day, One of the things that struck was it was all about show. The columns you see are not all they appear as they are in fact round brick built with a stucco finish made to look like a carved column. In Pompeii the stucco had been burnt off revealing this and At Herculanum although better preserved structurally the stucco partially remains. The interesting point about Herculanum is that the super heated thermoclastic cloud that hit the town turned wooden structures to charcoal whilst maintaining the shape. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
2 hours ago, Rod1883 said:

Took the car for a gentle circuit of the lanes around home today - stopped off in Bignor Roman Villa gateway (Villa obviously closed at the moment)

P1040251a.JPG

P1040252a.jpg

Very nice! And with a copy of the book too. By the way, what's the body colour of your 2?

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On 5/5/2020 at 6:43 PM, Rodbr said:

I am fortunate to have a Roman Fort within half a mile of my house and it is one of many all the way to Glasgow at Bearsden.. Th bath house re-discovered in the 1970's is spectacular.

There is a very good Time Team episode about the large camp at Drumlanrig castle which gives an insight in the Roman way of thinking as they moved towards the world renowned Glasegian Hospitality. not so much for the Romans who after trying to maintain the Antonine wall decided to move south again to the comparative safety of Hadrians wall. I think they did not find either people or climate to their liking.

Whilst it is riveting to find out about Roman Britain and more is excavated each year I had the opportunity to travel to Italy and visit Both Pompeii and Herculanum over time . As an insight into the fabulous opulence there is little to beat seeing them in the flesh. The colours are fibrant to this day and must have been positively gaudy back in the day, One of the things that struck was it was all about show. The columns you see are not all they appear as they are in fact round brick built with a stucco finish made to look like a carved column. In Pompeii the stucco had been burnt off revealing this and At Herculanum although better preserved structurally the stucco partially remains. The interesting point about Herculanum is that the super heated thermoclastic cloud that hit the town turned wooden structures to charcoal whilst maintaining the shape. 

My wife and I have also been to Pompeii and Herculaneum and many other sites in the region. We thought the Villa dei Misteri was best, not too many tourists get down there and the mosaics and frescoes are in place.

Between Sorrento and Pompei are two of the most magnificent villas, San Marco and Arriana. A bit hard to get to, we walked up the hill from the railway station.

Both villas were on top of the then sea cliff, the sea has retreated a km or so since. They are very complete with numerous frescoes and mosaics in situ. Just wonderful to sit there and imagine the life they hosted. https://archaeology-travel.com/travel-tips/how-to-get-to-stabiae/

Also fantastic for Roman buffs is Baiae near Pozzuoli on the Bay of Naples. Most of the Roman resort is in a few metres of water and easily snorkeled. The ruins on shore are just brilliant.

We have visited numerous Roman sites in Britain and would love to join in a Register tour if it happens.

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  • 3 months later...

Hopefully people have noted the current series on Channel 5 called ‘Walking Britain’s Roman Roads’.   Tonight’s episode ( three of six) was on the north east covering Dere Street and Stanegate.  The former covering from York to near Edinburgh and The latter following Hadrian’s Wall.   It can be seen on My5 catch up TV if you missed it.   It covered Piercebridge, Corbridge and Vindolanda amongst other places.
 

I've been to Pompei and Herculaneum twice and loved them both.  I’d particularly to go back to the area again and see Baia  which John mentions myself.  It was the pleasure palace of the Roman Empire which largely but not totally disappeared into the sea.  There was a great TV programme on that a while ago and snippets are on YouTube.  I’d not heard of it before seeing that programme. 

Paul

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9 hours ago, PaulAnderson said:

Hopefully people have noted the current series on Channel 5 called ‘Walking Britain’s Roman Roads’.   Tonight’s episode ( three of six) was on the north east covering Dere Street and Stanegate.  The former covering from York to near Edinburgh and The latter following Hadrian’s Wall.   It can be seen on My5 catch up TV if you missed it.   It covered Piercebridge, Corbridge and Vindolanda amongst other places.
 

I've been to Pompei and Herculaneum twice and loved them both.  I’d particularly to go back to the area again and see Baia  which John mentions myself.  It was the pleasure palace of the Roman Empire which largely but not totally disappeared into the sea.  There was a great TV programme on that a while ago and snippets are on YouTube.  I’d not heard of it before seeing that programme. 

Paul

And down the road from Baiae is Cumae. My wife and I were walking down to it when we got caught in a torrential down pour. By the time it cleared we had to get back to Baiae.

A walk or bus out to Miseno where Pliny the Elder watched Vesuvius erupt and deployed the Roman navy to the rescue is also worth the visit. There is a great museum at Arrogonese castle on a hill near Baiae. Fantastic.

Once this virus rubbish lets us travel we would still be keen on a Register Roman run. We need a fair bit of notice to get there from Australia.

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On 6/2/2020 at 3:43 AM, John McCormack said:

would love to join in a Register tour if it happens.

+1 I plan to contribute something soon... great to see the Virus has not dampened our enthusiasm. One thought I have is to think about how to make monuments release their secrets, get them to talk. Someone who does that whom I strongly reccomend is the Classicist MARY BEARD. Down to earth, very readable, entertaining, no airs and graces, yet extremely competent. :)

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Just now, DavidBee said:

+1 I plan to contribute something soon... great to see the Virus has not dampened our enthusiasm. One thought I have is to think about how to make monuments release their secrets, get them to talk. Someone who does that whom I strongly reccomend is the Classicist MARY BEARD. Down to earth, very readable, entertaining, no airs and graces, yet extremely competent. :)

I follow both Mary Beard and Michael Scott on Facebook. Watch all their shows and have read some material. 

I have more recently got into Greek history and philosophy. Fascinating!

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14 hours ago, John McCormack said:

I have more recently got into Greek history and philosophy. Fascinating!

Yes, I agree with you. These were my original studies. Classics, Latin and Greek. Still keen, but a hobby now for quite some time. Though I have lost all my Greek through lack of use (except for etymology). 

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  • 8 months later...

If anyone is interested, there’s been a recent archaeological dig started at Birdoswald Roman Fort on Hadrian’s Wall in Cumbria.   News articles covering it include:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-57612323

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19395961.major-excavation-birdoswald-hadrians-wall-cumbria/?ref=twtrec

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19400064.penrith-mp-backs-excavation-birdoswald-hadrians-wall/

 

Paul

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  • 10 months later...

If anyone is interested I've noted that there is an online talk tomorrow evening on the subject of 'The Stainmore road, its unique Roman camps, and Venutius’s war', by Mike Haken, the Roman Roads Research Association's chairman.  Details can be seen on Eventbrite (click on word for link)

Paul

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Getting back to Mithras, I’ve learned of a talk on Eventbrite  about Mithras.   The notes indicate:

A lecture by Alan Beale on one of the strangest of the Roman gods, a deity who had several temples built in his honour along Hadrian's Wall.  Mithras is one of the strangest and most fascinating of the Roman gods. Apparently a Roman god in eastern dress, his cult spread across the empire at its height. With three temples excavated on Hadrian’s Wall the cult of Mithras has locally a wealth of evidence for its interpretation. But that evidence presents problems for those who try to understand the god and the practices of his followers. This talk will focus on what the excavated remains reveal but will also look at some of the evidence from the rest of the region and the empire as a whole. Attractive as it is to reconstruct the cult, the evidence always requires careful scrutiny. Indeed, one scholar issued the caveat, ‘You would do well to take everything you read [see or hear!] with a large pinch of salt’.


It’s to be held in Newcastle upon Tyne at the Lit & Phil, itself on the edge of the route of Hadrians Wall

Paul

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On 6/9/2022 at 1:44 PM, PaulAnderson said:

Getting back to Mithras, I’ve learned of a talk on Eventbrite  about Mithras.   The notes indicate:

A lecture by Alan Beale on one of the strangest of the Roman gods, a deity who had several temples built in his honour along Hadrian's Wall.  Mithras is one of the strangest and most fascinating of the Roman gods. Apparently a Roman god in eastern dress, his cult spread across the empire at its height. With three temples excavated on Hadrian’s Wall the cult of Mithras has locally a wealth of evidence for its interpretation. But that evidence presents problems for those who try to understand the god and the practices of his followers. This talk will focus on what the excavated remains reveal but will also look at some of the evidence from the rest of the region and the empire as a whole. Attractive as it is to reconstruct the cult, the evidence always requires careful scrutiny. Indeed, one scholar issued the caveat, ‘You would do well to take everything you read [see or hear!] with a large pinch of salt’.


It’s to be held in Newcastle upon Tyne at the Lit & Phil, itself on the edge of the route of Hadrians Wall

Paul

All I know is that it was a monotheistic religion, very widespread among rank and file, with Eastern elements combined, from Persia, so dualist, it seems. Then Christianity swept it away.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

I spotted another article on Mithraeum  in the press, here   And here is an English Heritage web page on Mithras and the eastern religion on Hadrian's Wall.

Note that the Roman archaeology dig at Birdoswald Roman fort is on until 7th July and tours to see it close up can be booked at EH's web site

I recently visited Corbridge Roman site and saw the new exhibition on the people who excavated it.  A press article on that can be seen here and on their own web site here . I might post some photos when I get organised but there's lots of information on that web site.

 

Paul

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  • 3 months later...

 

Here, hopefully is the same Ebchester / Northumberland scene a couple of months ago when I realized I was nearby and went to take a similar photo.  I am facing the other way but there were other cars in the layby which made turning around a bit more difficult.

 

IMG_7520

 

Paul

 

Note that I tried to post the BB Code for the photo held on Flickr using the 'Other Media - insert image from URL' function as I used to do but it would not allow me to paste it.  Not sure why that is but something has changed.

Edited by PaulAnderson
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Next year is now taken up for us. We are off to Italy and Greece for 9 weeks in April/May. Then to the US of A and Canada in September/October to visit friends in Arizona and drive through the National Parks north of Arizona to visit our oldest son who now lives in Toronto.

Maybe 2024 we will be back in the UK if this tour comes off.

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  • 5 weeks later...

There's an online talk this evening on the 'The Rivers and Roads of Flavian Scotland' at this link if anyone is interested.  You need to book online in advance to attend.  It's given by the Roman Roads Research Association (romanroads.org) 

 

I've also just spotted that you can see some of their other talks and videos on YouTube

Paul

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