Lucas fuel pump thrust washer

[super6al]

Hi All

Ive managed to bugger my Lucas fuel pump attempting to fix a screeching noise. I stripped the motor & found the brass thrust washer was paper thin . Thinking this was the problem I replaced it with a standard M10 x 1.25mm brass washer. It went back together fine, however the motor was tight. I backed off the case fixing screws & it ran no problem. When trying to start the car I noticed petrol coming out of the 'tell tale' pipe. I suspect the washer is too thick & has caused the shaft to put too much force on the shaft fuel seal.

Ive found a repair kit that contains the seal but doesn't include the thrust washer. Does anyone know what i thickness the brass thrust washer should be & are they available? 

Thanks

Alan

[jamesStag]

Hi Alan, 

       I'm surprised no one else has replied before, but for all things Lucas PI related best speak to Neil Ferguson (k raven-smith on here) is at Stafford he does a first class job. 

I don't know if he'd send just the thrust washer only, but he'll certainly refurbish your pump and do it properly and for a fraction of the cost compared to all the commercial outfits (KMI, Prestige, etc) 

Cheers, J. 

[CP26309]

I endorse James suggestion above, Neil is the man for all Lucas Pi refurbishing jobs.

I don't know the Lucas pump Thrust Washer size...but I recall from my own overhaul many years ago that it is very thin, and Yes it Screeches when it gets too hot! The pump in the 2.5 Saloon has the luxury of being positioned laying on it's side...so it takes the weight of the armature off the Thrust Washer...whereas the lack of space in the TR means it sits upright and overheats the Washer. In reality the pump should have been designed with a proper bearing! The cure that has seen my pump work these past 40 odd years with the same washer is the so called "Continental Cooling Kit"...Triumph's fancy (Excuse) name for a Metal Coil fuel line that winds around the pump casing...the cool fuel acting as cooling for the hot electric motor!

Edited March 11, 2019 by CP26309
addition

[super6al]

Gents, Thanks for the replies. I'm awaiting a overhaul kit (doesn't contain the washer but does have the seal i managed to wreck). I'll try & calculate the washer thickness when i reassemble. Failing that I'll contact Neil.

Ive done a bit more research & the Lucas manual refers to it as a shim(s).It seems its to take up float rather than act as a bearing surface, however, mounted vertically as it is, gravity ensures its doing exactly that! The actual bearing shows little wear. There is adjustment on the end of the motor shaft to cope with varying shim thickness.

Having said that, its a simple enough item & I wonder how many were changed over the years to Bosch when a little maintenance & wiring improvements would have ensured reliability. Mine has worked for 84,000 miles, so I think it deserves a second chance. 

From the lack of response, I guess theres not many still using the Lucas pump. Mine has never overheated but has always been relatively noisy. The screeching is mainly after its been laid up a while, future lubrication should prevent this. In attempting to understand the cause, I broke the golden rule of if it ain't broke don't touch.

 

[jamesStag]

Hi Alan, 

        Glad reply of use. I have no firm data but I'd say there's plenty of people still running Mr. lucas' pump. Perhaps 50% or a little under? If you search past posts is plenty of comment on the topic over the years. 

Both Bosch or Lucas can work well. Lucas must have good power supply and earth and pressure set right etc, then it can hum away quite reliably. But they can also been quite frustrating too, as I know. They may let you down intermittently if being troublesome but I've always got home, if in stages... 

Bosch also needs wiring upgrade and in particular clean filters as they don't suck well. Again they can run trouble free for years, though can howl in complaint of lack of sufficient fuel supply or eventual bearing failure. Trouble is once they do fail, as a sealed pump that's it, time for a new one.

Whereas Mr Lucas can be stripped, rebuilt and carry on again. It's horses for courses.... When you rebuild yours can I suggest putting oil on bottom bearing, thrust shim and non fuel side of the rubber seal (not grease). That's helps to keep it all happy. Any doubts contact Neil (his mobile number can be found by searching on here). Good luck. 

Cheers, J.

[super6al]

Thanks James,

As an update & for anyone who's interested-i'm sure this is all old hat to some but its all part of my exciting Tr6 learning curve (sad I know). The overhaul kit arrived without the seal (the only bit I actually needed haha). In the mean time I took a chance on a second hand unit from ebay. I stripped, cleaned (like mine it was chock full of carbon dust & the washer seemed very thin), lubricated it & banged it back together. It runs quite happily, although seems to run hotter than my old one - I noticed when it was in bits the windings were discoloured so it had obviously ran warm at some point in the past. Maybe the armature insulation is on its way out. Ill do a check when I next change it over.

Anyhow I'm currently rebuilding my old pump with the newly arrived seal, brushes & O rings. Incidentally I since found its much cheaper to source the components separately rather than buy a kit, even after allowing £12 for a set of original brushes that could be had for a couple of quid from Amazon/eBay with slight modifications. I will refit my pump & use the eBay one as a spare.

  Regarding my original post, I measured the washers from mine & the eBay unit at 0.26mm & 0.31mm respectively. I contacted Neil (thanks again) & he confirmed 0.26mm should be ok for reuse. I suspect the cause of the screeching to be :

 a) the carbon deposits inside the casing (this can't help the motor insulation or heat dispersion either)

b) the motor washer or bearings being dry (although they are made with self lubricating materials they do run quieter with oil or light grease)

c) the pump gears & shaft seal being dry as they do need fuel to keep them lubricated.  

I think a) & b) can explain any constant noise when running & c) after a lengthy lay up-should disappear after start up.

Probably all well documented elsewhere but my advise, regardless of noise, would be for anyone still using the Lucas pump to periodically strip, clean & lubricate the motor  & maybe run it every couple of weeks or so if laid up.

Alan