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hydraulic clutch release bearing (for TR4A-TR6)


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Hi Waldi,

which MX-5 gear box :rolleyes:

Well, this could be another thread, I always hoped to get some input from other users with my posts.

But this is very limited the case, mainly some kind of talking to myself, at least a documentation for myself.

So I have doubt about the sence of reporting about this project....

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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“So I have doubt about the sence of reporting about this project“

Hi Marco,
sorry to read This but I’m afraid I have to agree with you.

Best regards,
Waldi

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Don't stop.  I am enjoying the thought processes and the engineering.  I agree not all have the engineering skills, nor perhaps understand the benefits. 

Please keep reporting.

 

Cheers

Peter W

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HI Marco/Waldi

Another please here. Don't stop I enjoy reading your thread, I have the interest but not the tooling to tackle such mods! So carry on.

MX5 box that's interesting they seem to get used in lots for cars from MGB's to lots of Kit cars because they are cheap and plentiful. I've fitted lots, destroyed many and modified them over the years the best of the bunch for my applications and strength was the six speed MK2 from a "Sport" cost £200-250 a time. Although there were quite a few internal changes even in the MKI/II. Be interesting to see if you can get one to fit.

Keep at it:P.

Andy 

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36 minutes ago, PodOne said:

Be interesting to see if you can get one to fit.

That conversion is already available, at a price e.g.:

https://www.vitesse-ltd.com/products/vittr253?variant=29075688587347

but from the description it looks like they might make a new bell-housing.

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3 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Don't stop.  I am enjoying the thought processes and the engineering.  I agree not all have the engineering skills, nor perhaps understand the benefits. 

Please keep reporting.

 

Cheers

Peter W

Same here.

Pete

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3 hours ago, RobH said:

That conversion is already available, at a price e.g.:

https://www.vitesse-ltd.com/products/vittr253?variant=29075688587347

but from the description it looks like they might make a new bell-housing.

Yeah I know,

realizing this was tho GO for me.

But I want to make it my own project.

Ciao, Marco

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Hi Marco,

looks like you have more support than You (we) expected. Thanks to all who took the effort to reply:D.

Waldi

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8 hours ago, RobH said:

That conversion is already available, at a price e.g.:

https://www.vitesse-ltd.com/products/vittr253?variant=29075688587347

but from the description it looks like they might make a new bell-housing.

Price plus VAT! Looks like they are using a MX5 MK1 box with a custom bell housing you can pick these boxes up for £50-75 don't blame you for trying to produce your own, but why not use a six speed? Stronger to boot.  

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Ready to go back in the TR

1393392731_73readytofit01.JPG.c8040d41099ff1897d16b10c82991536.JPG  162314490_74readytofit02.JPG.6d1f64bef384413d6febf7e51d10ecc7.JPG

I'm thinking of making "a lift" to get it easy in - and out again, someone here at this forum showed a very usefull construction....

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8 minutes ago, Z320 said:

 

I'm thinking of making "a lift" to get it easy in - and out again, someone here at this forum showed a very usefull construction....

John Morrison is that man you need to context for the gearbox lift design .

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Covid-19 gives me the chance not to hurry - and to realize another dimension to check!

Just by accident I put one of my friction plates on the gearbox main shaft while the one I decided to use was already on the engine.

"Looks a little bit close - the space to the flywheel?" And indeed! Only 46 mm - while I measured 44,5 - 45 mm for the flywheel!

763151454_75checkingspacetoflywheel.JPG.fafdac8dd3c53c90172331f009a535ae.JPG

The guide / tube for the ring piston is the reason, about 68 mm deep in the gearbox bell, while the original is 80 mm deep in there!

1001767071_76deepabout46mm.JPG.c02fdece32f8117c99dbcc6df0d0cd94.JPG

Probably this would work, but I decided to put the friction plate on the lathe and cut the splines down on the gearbox side for 3 mm.

The cut was remarkable easy to do, it's a very simple steel compared with the gearbox shaft..

610110256_77reducessplines.JPG.06253f10c799fbfd0736686105406a93.JPG    2041417277_78closerlookonthesplines.JPG.5a4462feebaeed4cd890e970333c01ff.JPG

I phoned immediately to my mate Robert, but his clutch still works lovely and without any problem or noice.

Perhaps the splines of his LuK friction plate is shorter? So, who ever want's to go this way: check, check, check - and check again.

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

every day there is someting to learn - but this is sometimes a pain!

I did not get the gearbox on the engine, did everything for an hour, another hour the next day, it did not work at all.

Problem was: I was exactly at the point when the gearbox shaft must slide in the splines of the friction plate but it did not and I did not feel the spines!

So I had a closer look on my other friction plate. Do you see what I realized?!?

844261175_79originalsplines.JPG.4381a570e3d6cfa112f479aec1f14350.JPG

I always thought this surface is "anyway" due to the process of production - but it is tapered on purpose!

This is needed to guide the gearbox shaft inside the splines! And I cut it off on the lathe to get some millimeters more clearance.

All in pieces again to do another modification, from this

2041417277_78closerlookonthesplines.JPG.5a4462feebaeed4cd890e970333c01ff.JPG

To this

1700171176_80modificatedsplines.JPG.90595ae99fa859511eb120ff5d41a8f8.JPG

More / deeper is not needed, this way it worked fine, the gearbox is now on the engine, I hope tomorrow I can finish the work.

"Next time", if I ever make a unit again, I make the hydraulic unit 3 mm shorter.

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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Well done Marco. 
very frustrating for you. But also very rewarding to get it right. 
 

more so for you when you are inventing something. 
 

keep smiling. 
 

H

Edited by Hamish
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On 5/2/2020 at 4:51 PM, Waldi said:

Hi Marco,

looks like you have more support than You (we) expected. Thanks to all who took the effort to reply:D.

Waldi

I'm an engineering ignoramvs (or ignorans, to be more accurate). 

But, strangely enough, I also enjoy Marco's experiments, successful to boot, while feeling stretched.

The way I see it, though I can barely follow, each experiment teaches me about the nature of a set problem, and the technical limitations you want to fix.

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Hi Hamish and Dave,

thank you for your laud, I see it as a challenge and a  guidance for others to go over their limits.

And indeed there is something to learn about for EVERYONE from what happened at last with my gearbox.

"A problem is mostly solved in your head - and not with a sledge hammer in your hand".

True or not?

Well, the TR is ready for a test drive, but I'm to tired for this today.

At the garage with the engine off the clutch is easy to press, even by hand, not as easy as on the MX-5 MK2

on which I did it to compare some days ago. I hope the test drive tomorrow (?) will not be a disaster.

Ciao, Marco

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Hi Harald,

thank you, no problems at all on our first 50 miles test drive today, next WE it will be 200 miles.

Sadly I borrowed my tool to measure the force to push the pedal a friend and I get it back "soon".

But what I can say the force is less than it was before but strong enough to get a good feeling for the clutch.

I'm very pleased, the future will show how it works.

Ciao, Marco

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all,

I drove the first 500 miles and the unit works without any issues.

P1160525-b.JPG.a4d6449ebd2d95d6036b2ee578398d96.JPG 

P1160529-b.JPG.3a2365d40870fdf752270bec0a51e304.JPG

Today my mate Wolfgang gave me my scaling tool back and he wanted to test the release bearing in my car (he has one of the five units).

16 kg was indicated, that is 2 more than I wanted - but what I expected. I'm pleased - and he was enthusiastic (he has 25 kg on this TR6!).

This could be 14 kg with a 1/2" master cylinder - but there is no such a Girling part on the market?

Let's see what time brings - perhaps a MX5 box :rolleyes:

Ciao, Marco

 

 

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Hi Marco,

Measuring is knowing & you get what you inspect. Congratulations on your achievement!

Waldi

 

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