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Does anyone have an old but legal /serviceable 155x15 tyre I can use as a "get you home " spare ? On my early TR2 a 165 tyre won't fit the spare wheel compartment, even deflated--a well known problem with early TRs built for 5.50x15 cross-plies. Bill Piggott

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Bill, I bought  cheap new tyre from mytyres for this. I think it cost £30. Probably made of candy floss but fingers crossed I haven't needed it yet. 

Rgds Ian

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Is an emergency spare tyre not allowed at GB?

I have been told some tyres from for example small Volvos fit.

Me myself I have a sealant and 12 V compressor on board.

Cioa / Cheers, Marco

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Without warranty!

Browse at eBay for "Volvo V40 / S40, Mk 1, 4 studs, 125/90 R 15"  

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Marco,

I think that “Emergency tyres” are only legal in the UK (Maybe even EU) if they were specified by the manufacturer as original equipment.

Not so important from a legal point of view, as I don’t think many police would know or care, but more from an insurance side, if an accident occurred while using one.

I think it was Alex Pringle who said that even having a 155 on one side and a 165 on the other might invalidate your insurance.

 

As for "selant and compressor" I as once told by an AA man that 90% of the sealent has gone hard by the time someone needs to use it (as was my case when my Fiat had a puncture.)

Charlie.

Edited by Charlie D

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21 minutes ago, mike ellis said:

Has anyone tried this stuff as I am considering it for a daily driver on which I have ditched the runflats.

http://www.autoseal.co.uk

Mike

Any of those sealant types are Ok but no good for a sidewall rip and also even if it is a repairable hole tyre fitters wont touch them due to the mess so it writes off the tyre anyway.

Stuart.

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The ONLY SAFE WAY to repair a puncture is to

remove the tyre from the rim, and examine inside for secondary damage.

John.

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I would not be happy relying on a tin of sealant after ripping a tyre some years ago on a remote road in northern Sweden,.

When I bought a new VW recently I had to threaten to walk away from the sale if I didn't get a spare, jack and wheel brace, they gave me a space saver which was great untill I had to use it and realised the full size flat tyre would not fit in the boot with all the luggage!

George 

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1 hour ago, harlequin said:

...untill I had to use it and realised the full size flat tyre would not fit in the boot with all the luggage!

George 

oh, that's quite easy to handle,

first drive with the flat trye on the passenger seat to the hotel, second pick up your wife from the road ....

(bad idea, silly bad guy) 

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Bill

i dont know where you are but this is in chertsey 

Warrior Car Tyre  Never Fitted 155 x 15  C45 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302956725187

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Thanks Hamish, I'm in Herefordshire, but I'll contact the bloke on ebay and see what it will cost to send.....

Sadly Ian the cheapest on MYtyres is now 60 quid plus VAT, candy floss included ! Or they will sell me a new Michelin XAS 165x15 for nearly £500 with the VAT......good gawd, that's two thousand quid for new boots for a TR2......does anyone buy them? Bill P 

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I’m in chertsey and could collect the tyre and store for you Bill, until you arrange courier or collect at your leisure?

steve

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I would ask for the age of this trye?

Without DOT number ist is older than 39 years.

Edited by Z320

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Yes I can confirm the Volvo V40/S40 space saver with 4 stud fitting sized 125/90x15 fits the TR

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-VOLVO-V40-XS-4-STUD-15-SPACE-SAVER-SPARE-WHEEL-TYRE/272573634085?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It works with 10 " drums and does not foul the suspension or body of a TR3.

Cheers

Peter W

PS You can get an "heard of sheep" in the spare wheel hole with the Volvo wheel and tyre!

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On 2/19/2019 at 1:17 PM, Charlie D said:

Marco,

I think that “Emergency tyres” are only legal in the UK (Maybe even EU) if they were specified by the manufacturer as original equipment.

Not so important from a legal point of view, as I don’t think many police would know or care, but more from an insurance side, if an accident occurred while using one.

I think it was Alex Pringle who said that even having a 155 on one side and a 165 on the other might invalidate your insurance.

Surely if you tell the insurance company at time of taking out the policy - then they can make that decision to accept it or not.  Their accepting it would of course imply (legally) that it was there to be used and therefore they are accepting its use and covering it.  - no ? 

 

11 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Yes I can confirm the Volvo V40/S40 space saver with 4 stud fitting sized 125/90x15 fits the TR

Would that then also fit the TR4 and 4A ?

Thanks,

Pete

 

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1 minute ago, Bfg said:

Surely if you tell the insurance company at time of taking out the policy - then they can make that decision to accept it or not.  Their accepting it would of course imply (legally) that it was there to be used and therefore they are accepting its use and covering it.  - no ? 

 

Would that then also fit the TR4 and 4A ?

Thanks,

Pete

 

Yes I consider it would fit a TR4 with steel wheels.  It would need checking for clearance on a TR4A with IRS but I do not expect there to be an issue -

The Volvo wheel rim inset is about 1/4" greater than a Genuine TR 4/4A/5 steel rim - so the inner rim edge gets closer to the body tub.

Cheers

Peter W

PS The great debate of legality and insurance acceptance rises to the surface again here.  I know I cannot get a 165/80 x 15 on 5 1/2" TR6 steel rim in the spare wheel hole of a sidescreen car without serious bodywork modifications.  So, at under £30.00 delivered it is a cheap option to get me home in an emergency. 

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1 hour ago, Bfg said:

 

 

Would that then also fit the TR4 and 4A ?

Thanks,

Pete

 

You can get a 185 in the boot of 4/4a you just need the TR5 Boot board so not needed.

Stuart.

Edited by stuart

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I only know about the Volvo spare wheel and still have seal and a mini compressor on the car.

To the question of legality my question is: what is the fastest way to get out of a dangerous or inconvenient situation?

That's why I have the Volvo tyre still in my mind, but also the question: does it fit with the short bolts of whire wheel (adaptor off)?

 

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I have changed to long studs with spacers on the front hubs of my 3. That way if I have a double puncture on a group tour I can scrounge a spare off anyone without having to have a knock on. You could do the same for your bolt on space saver. 

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3 hours ago, stuart said:

You can get a 185 in the boot of 4/4a you just need the TR5 Boot board so not needed.

Stuart.

...or just rivet some 1" square box tube to the two side edges of your existing boot board to lift it up from the spare tyre....

Cheers

Peter W

PS Been There, Done That.....

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT

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On 2/19/2019 at 1:17 PM, Charlie D said:

Marco,

I think that “Emergency tyres” are only legal in the UK (Maybe even EU) if they were specified by the manufacturer as original equipment.

Not so important from a legal point of view, as I don’t think many police would know or care, but more from an insurance side, if an accident occurred while using one.

I think it was Alex Pringle who said that even having a 155 on one side and a 165 on the other might invalidate your insurance

Charlie.

Nope ! Alec was only quoting what Construction and Use regulations say, broadly paraphrasing "the wheel and tyre must be the same on both sides of the axle or car" this is the bedrock of our car and vehicle manufacturing standards here I the UK.

The latest iteration of the C&U (as those that use it regularly (I used to in my previous job for the last 30 years) has a recent paragraph which acknowledges Space saver spare wheels of different sizes being allowable BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE SELLING MANUFACTURER UNDER WHOLESALE TYPE APPROVAL PRACTICES, fancy getting Triumph to confirm and supply the certification of Type approval which they did...errr... Nada Triumph was nothing but an ephemeral memory by the time WVTA came into being.

Also included in the requirement for the derogation (get out of jail card) from having ALL wheels on the car matching as for sizes and types is the requirement under WVTA for the manufacturer to having carried out and certificated trials of the car under braking and steering with odd type wheels and tyres fitted. This is to avoid a TR3a with 155/175/185/196 or even 205 sized tyres all of which are allowed (as long as you inform and gain approval from your insurance company) having an odd sized tyre fitted amongst the other tyres. Which catastrophically under certain conditions (sunny and dry, snowing, raining, mud strewn road surface etc) gives a different road holding or braking characteristic which can cause a road accident which involves you spinning and T boning an innocent oncoming Mercedes driven by a Chief executive of a Trust whose annual wages are similar to that of the GDP of a small third world country (millions) and killing him.

Of course apart from the misery and sadness caused to his family there will be the small factor of  his missing wages ALL of which his insurance (both car and personal insurance) will look to have underwritten by your insurer...now where was the piece of paper where you wrote the name of the young employee at your insurance. The same employee who blithely said " yep of course space saver spare wheels are allowed" armoured by his ignorance that just because you carry a space saver spare wheel it will meet requirements. Garnered from the local scrapyard (or even e bay) off a Volvo, Renault Ford etc all of which offer them on their cars after carefully selecting them and specifying they need a different special tyre formulation with a stickier compound to approximate the grip of the other tyres (why don't they all offer the same one and reduce costs ?...aahh because they have to meet the testing schedule and certification of WVTA which varies according to car)...do you feel lucky ?

I've attended court twice as an expert witness testifying for the prosecution where a customer has changed the manufacturer specification of OE supplied equipment to different items, once sadly having an accident caused by it. A chastening experience as you see a man in the dock twisting and turning trying to explain that "it was done with best intentions" and "how was he to know that changing the wheelbase on a truck also required the ESP settings on the brakes changing" ( a longer delay time) which materially altered the braking characteristic of the vehicle.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A8117f180-9981-4b6b-b760-0cce47ce02bf

Given that a TR CANNOT comply with requirements of the Whole Vehicle Type Approval certification because it was never submitted to pass it then it reverts to common or garden C&U (remember them) regulations which means you have to have the same size wheel and tyre with the same construction on either side of the car. If you advise your insurer that your spare wheel and tyre is NOT a proscribed spare and your car will NOT then meet with Whole Vehicle Type Approval derogations to allow the use of a non standard wheel and tyre and they then discuss it with their underwriters and approve it then at least you have given them full information.

Perhaps we can try it with the TR Register approved insurers and see what they say, if they approve it then I'll go back to sleep and forget about posting on these sort of posts on a 3 months basis.

Let me explain an example. I have a Mk1 Ford S Max which does not come with a spare wheel and tyre, they are supplied with a tyre inflater and chemical tyre repair outfit, because of this many S Max owners carry a Mondeo space saver and jack...that's illegal...and dangerous, the S Max is heavier than the Mondeo and the space saver could collapse.

Because I tow I carry an electric scissor jack (rated at 2500 kgs, the S Max is Heavy) and a full size wheel and tyre of the correct type and rating. All S Max owners have moaned through the years about a lack of a spare wheel and eventually Ford have listened and with the Mk3 introduced about 12 months ago it now has a space saver and jack supplied. So ...a flood of letters on the S Max forum from owners of Mk 1 and Mk2 S Max owners asking where can they get a Mk3 space saver and jack from, but to no avail !

Because although a Mk3 has been tested under Whole Vehicle Type Approval for a space saver and has a derogation allowing a different size wheel and tyre fitment, Mk1 and Mk2 S Max haven't been tested under WVTA and so are not covered under a derogation allowing contravention of Construction and Use "same size and type wheels and tyres on the same axle".

No of course it doesn't matter, ...until you have an accident and the forensic examiner checks the Ford build spec records and notes there was no space saver supplied with a Mk1 or Mk2 and your vehicle now contravenes Construction and Use regs and it becomes the basis of a prosecution, and your insurer checks with the underwriter..etc etc.

Sometimes having a technical a r s e ache is preferable to the alternative. 

Mick Richards 

 

 

Edited by Motorsport Mickey

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I use a " get me home space saver" from a Chrysler, I think K series. It fits perfect on the spare rim. Most guys here are pretty scared about being pulled over by the cops or get in some freak accident and get spanked by the insurance. I mean, why would you be pulled over all of a sudden when you probably didn't get stopped by the cops once in the last years.......and a spare tire only gets you to the next town were you would get it fixed at a tire shop anyway.....so I guess you wouldn't do more then 80 km on the spare....so my point, get what you can afford and what gets you home.

Yves

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14 minutes ago, classic225 said:

I use a " get me home space saver" from a Chrysler, I think K series. It fits perfect on the spare rim. Most guys here are pretty scared about being pulled over by the cops or get in some freak accident and get spanked by the insurance. I mean, why would you be pulled over all of a sudden when you probably didn't get stopped by the cops once in the last years.......and a spare tire only gets you to the next town were you would get it fixed at a tire shop anyway.....so I guess you wouldn't do more then 80 km on the spare....so my point, get what you can afford and what gets you home.

Yves

Yep, that's about the response whenever this subject comes up, it's just too inconvenient to specify or carry the correct size wheel...what the chassis flexes too much, well I reckon a small engineering project will sort that out...oh and vented discs complete with 4 pot calipers..and of course adding a second braking circuit is only a small inconvenience and all this is for an increase in car safety...right ? But not carrying the correct sized spare wheel ? especially when an illegal space saver is normally red with a sticker on and any rookie cop who can be bothered is thinking "did they have space savers in 1959" ?

As always it's the owners choice what he puts on his car, but try googling the "Selby Train crash" if you want a nightmare scenario, and then think having caused multiple fatalities and over £22 million GBP damage was the 8 years imprisonment too hard a sentence ? Now this driver didn't have illegal tyres or any engineering fails on his outfit and just fell asleep after foolishly not sleeping before his journey, but it illustrates just how " get what you can afford" can cost you more than your home.

Mick Richards

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