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CRACKING IN FRONT SUSPENSION PILLARS


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For the last few months the TR6 has had a clunk from the front left when turning into driveways, parking spots etc. It only occurs if I turn a bit fast or hard.

Investigating yesterday and we found that the top of the suspension pillar either side of the top shock absorber mount is cracked through. The right side has a small hairline crack.

I understand this cracking occurs but isn't common. I did replace the shock absorbers for spax adjustables a year or so ago.

I wonder if I have set them too hard or done something I shouldn't have. Any ideas?

 

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Hi John

After 50 years of thinning metal and fatigue its not too surprising maybe the shocks just advanced it a little. 

After blasting the frame I had a similar cracking around the shock turret and below the engine mount on one side. I ground a V into the cracks and welded them and added some shaped metal plates to the sides (both while I was at it) to span them as well as welding all the turret seams together. Did the same to the turret tops and added a half  ring. The metal in the turret tops is much thicker than the turret sides and where it meets frame.

You might have just enough room to do the tops but if there are any more I suspect it a body off job. 

Hope it ends well.

Andy  

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Good that you detected this before worse happened.

Check that the Spax has a rubber ball or whatever so when fully compressed this is a bump stop (because our cars do not have a rubber bumpstop like we have in the rear).

I would inspect the entire front suspension, clean all the welds and closely examine with a good torch and bright light. Be ware that you can smeer dirt in the cracks, so without blasting it may be difficult to detect any cracks.

Like Andy, I also ground out and welded again plus made reinforcements on the usual places.

Waldi

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John

have you got a photo so we can see precisely where the cracking is so we can keep an eye on ours?

i had the spot welded bracket (which the fulcrum pin is screwed to) break over one spot weld but I just about had enough room to be able to weld it back up. Space is tight in there so hopefully you don’t have to take the body off.

Cheers

dave

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks all. I don't weld so it will be done by our faithful Triumph specialist, the only one in Sydney.

I am away for a few days but will take a photo or two when I get back

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Here is a not very clear photo of the cracking on my lh suspension pillar. There is also one small hairline crack on the rh one.

It will go to a workshop to remove the shocks and top wishbone to repair both sides.

The cause is unknown. I doubt the shocks are set too hard. I took Tim Hunt for a run in the TR6 in December and he didn't notice anything untoward in some spirited driving on uneven roads.

InkedIMG_3117_LI.jpg

Edited by John McCormack
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Too much leverage being transmitted through the top wishbones causing the top fulcrum to flex the top of the suspension pillar, bigger tyre or wider wheel syndrome ?

Mick Richards

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I had this issue and the left turret gave way and pushed into the inner wing. When I bought the car I replaced the old tired front shock absorbers and the one on that side was seized solid, so my theory is it had acted like a hammer for some time, leading to the problem. The repair by a professional was expensive and involved cutting out the inner wing to rebuild the turret area. I was told this was a rare fault but maybe as the cars get older it isn't. My chassis was restored in the 90s and seems otherwise to be in good order.

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Is it just me, or does there appear to be a common theme involving cracked chassis, whether it be turrets at the front or trailing arms/chassis at the rear - namely non standard shock absorber fitments.

It looks like John has got adjustables on his car, and typically rear issues seem to involve telescopic conversions - unless you are considering competition use, I do wonder if these types of mod are really necessary for the ordinary roads , and whether people get anywhere near utilising the increased performance they might add?

I'll now duck!

cheers

Rich 

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2 hours ago, rcreweread said:

Is it just me, or does there appear to be a common theme involving cracked chassis, whether it be turrets at the front or trailing arms/chassis at the rear - namely non standard shock absorber fitments.

It looks like John has got adjustables on his car, and typically rear issues seem to involve telescopic conversions - unless you are considering competition use, I do wonder if these types of mod are really necessary for the ordinary roads , and whether people get anywhere near utilising the increased performance they might add?

I'll now duck!

cheers

Rich 

You do have to remember as well that age and the declining quality of the roads and possible hooligan previous owners has a lot to do with it. Also if you carefully examine a freshly blasted chassis you will notice that the guys at Rubery Owen werent that bothered how they put them together in the first place!

Stuart.

 

Marks TR5 070.jpg

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Marks TR5 066.jpg

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11 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Too much leverage being transmitted through the top wishbones causing the top fulcrum to flex the top of the suspension pillar, bigger tyre or wider wheel syndrome ?

Mick Richards

Looking at the cracks I think they have been there for a long time. They aren't new and the last time the car was driven in the wet would have been 9 months ago.

The shocks have only been on a short while, maybe a year. They aren't set overly hard, maybe 60% hardness. The car is a survivor car with about 60-80,000 miles total but has had the diff mounts reinforced due to cracking.

When I bought the car it hadn't been used more than 5000kms in 20 years but did have large 225/15 tyres. Previous owners may have used wide tyres as well.

I will get this repaired and monitor it. Luckily it was found before it collapsed and should be a 5-6 hour repair. 

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I had cracks and poor welds in the same locations, that became visible after grit-blasting. 

They are easy to repair with the body off and the chassis grit-blasted. 

Some front shocks lack the rubber damper (when the shock is fully conpressed), this will result in very high stresses, but even without that, the poor welds can fail too.

Waldi

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Same for me once blasted there were loads of poor welds and cracks that needed attention. One thing I noticed about the steel was that it seemed more malleable that the metal I used to effect the repairs. It seemed to tear for want of a better word, the original welds seemed harder. 

I would think there are a lot of cars with cracks running around in ignorance.

Andy   

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A not uncommon problem, at least with the more powerful TR6 than its earlier cousins.

The lesson, which I learnt many many years ago, is don't ignore clunks and knocks until you have found the cause.

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The seized shock I took off was standard and I then fitted adjustables. The damage has been repaired better than new but I am checking welds on both sides at the front. i have a telescopic conversion at the rear and have already strengthened the chassis. If you get a knock or-as in my case-a clicking at the front, check it carefully-I drove mine for a long while before the click became the damage shown!

 

 

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Edited by tr6fan
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  • 4 weeks later...

The repair has been done, however, the clunk is still there. I and our trusty Triumph specialist can't figure out what it is. The knock occurs rarely, today when I changed lanes in the petrol station requiring full right lock at an almost stopped speed. It only does it with full right lock and at almost stopped speed. I suspected top ball joint but there is no play there.

I will ignore it and eventually it will let me know what it is.

The car is driving superbly, a delight in performance and handling and I am now more confident pushing the car along through corners. 

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Check the left hand side of the rack where the inner rod end comes out from the rack tube for up and down play as the bearing in there can wear and give a clonk.

Stuart.

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I had the opportunity today to get the front left wheel off and have a good look around. I found a couple more cracks lower down in the pillar. They are pretty big cracks but not all the way through and the structure appears to be sound.

I have filled the cracks I can see with JBWeld, not to repair them but to enable me to see where the cracks are moving. The JBWeld will come apart when the crack moves. The large weld that looks like a crack is a previous repair and is solid.

Another trip to the workshop to effect more repairs.

IMG_3233.JPG

IMG_3232.JPG

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Hi John,

just a minor comment: the bolt on the spring pan (2nd pic) is too short, it should protrude through the nut. I would replace the bolt with a slightly longer one (and check the others too).

Good luck with the cracks.

Waldi

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2 hours ago, Waldi said:

Hi John,

just a minor comment: the bolt on the spring pan (2nd pic) is too short, it should protrude through the nut. I would replace the bolt with a slightly longer one (and check the others too).

Good luck with the cracks.

Waldi

Thank you. Very good pickup.

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7 hours ago, John McCormack said:

I had the opportunity today to get the front left wheel off and have a good look around. I found a couple more cracks lower down in the pillar. They are pretty big cracks but not all the way through and the structure appears to be sound.

I have filled the cracks I can see with JBWeld, not to repair them but to enable me to see where the cracks are moving. The JBWeld will come apart when the crack moves. The large weld that looks like a crack is a previous repair and is solid.

Another trip to the workshop to effect more repairs.

 

 

Hi John,

          interesting use of JBWeld.

Having played with cracks for a few years now I think I would be best to to remove the filler, thoroughly clean the area and then paint it white.

The crack will show up better against the white. the crack face chaff then you will see a 'rust' deposit on the white paint high lighting the crack more so.

If you have an airfield near you, pop along to the engineers and scrounge an aerosol of Red Dye Penetrant.   Cheap and simple.

 

Roger

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1 hour ago, tim hunt said:

+1 Good spot Waldi. Better not send you any pics of my car!

Tim

Hi Tim,

no worries, I’m also “blind” for my own errors, I believe I never make mistakes:)

cheers,

Waldi

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11 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi John,

          interesting use of JBWeld.

Having played with cracks for a few years now I think I would be best to to remove the filler, thoroughly clean the area and then paint it white.

The crack will show up better against the white. the crack face chaff then you will see a 'rust' deposit on the white paint high lighting the crack more so.

If you have an airfield near you, pop along to the engineers and scrounge an aerosol of Red Dye Penetrant.   Cheap and simple.

 

Roger

Thanks Roger. That process would require dismantling when it would be better to do the repair properly including reinforcing the areas of cracking.

All the JBWeld will do is identify where the movement is when it clunks again. It will be ground out for the repair.

I took it for a very short drive yesterday after the Weld had set including a couple of roundabouts and uneven roads. There wasn't any movement in the cracks. It appears to only occur when there is a lot of strain on the pillar, full lock at walking speeds and slower. 

My concern is why this cracking is happening and it appears from other responses that it is a weak point in the chassis, like the diff mounts.

I have owned the car for 2.5 years and this seems to have appeared in the last 6 or so months. I removed the springs when I installed new shocks (the spacer was fitted at the bottom not the top so the shocks wouldn't fit), there have been a couple of MOTs by two different garages and a thorough wheel alignment. Nothing untoward was seen.

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