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Running badly - any ideas?


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Another straw clutched at and failed. Swapped distributor cap, leads and rotor arm into the 2 and it ran fine. So it’s not that. Annoyingly I dropped the ht lead clamp screw for the coil and can’t find it. Someone said smile things could be worse, I did, and they were.

Run out of ideas now. Maybe take up stamp collecting.

JJC

 

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Did you check the diaphragms, and the fuel supply? My engine was having tantrums a while ago, which turned out to be a bit of **** in the fuel duct inside one of the (Stromberg) carbs. Had to flush it out by turning the engine on the starter (plugs out, LT lead removed from the coil) with the float chamber and needle valve removed from one carb at a time.

Pete

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Just re read this thread......did you have the HT leads on the wrong way round? 1342 anticlockwise.......only a suggestion, been there seen it got the T-shirt many years ago :D! Symptoms were pretty much as you describe, occasionally tries to fire, farts and back fires like a goodun.

Iain

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On 1/26/2019 at 2:55 PM, iain said:

Just re read this thread......did you have the HT leads on the wrong way round? 1342 anticlockwise.......only a suggestion, been there seen it got the T-shirt many years ago :D! Symptoms were pretty much as you describe, occasionally tries to fire, farts and back fires like a goodun.

Iain

They’re correct. In fact everything seems to be correct but it just won’t go. Even has people who know what they’re doing stumped. Plan to look at carburettors on the bench next week. JJC

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Quote

Just re read this thread......did you have the HT leads on the wrong way round? 1342 anticlockwise

...And starting with number 1 in the correct place on the dizzy cap?

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+1 John just had that problem starting a 6, everything checked out fine, then found the rotor arm not pointing at No1 lead. Think Waldi had a similar problem also.

Very unlikely as you have had it running.

Paul

Edited by Paul J
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Look I'm no expert, many will testify to that so please ignore if this is a stupid suggestion............but you do have the timing right / not 180 degrees out? pointer and little hole line up either way but only when it's right will the rotor arm point at number one plug....I think.

I will probably be back tomorrow, getting alarmingly close to restarting my own engine after a major rebuild! 

Good luck David

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4 hours ago, Chilliman said:

...And starting with number 1 in the correct place on the dizzy cap?

Interesting that. Yes, checked tdc is lined up with rotor arm by checking valves (just to make sure) but curiously the rotor arm isn’t quite where you might expect it to be. It looks a little advanced but that’s actually very difficult to judge and as it was running fine before I don’t think that’s it. After all the distributor is gear driven so it can’t jump a tooth on a timing belt. Anyway we twirled the distributor by hand with no result whatsoever. A real mystery. Fingers crossed when I get the carbs on the bench tomorrow a gremlin jumps out and beats it. JJC

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Well, it still won’t go. Carb diaphragms are fine, there’s petrol in the float chambers and it fires properly on Easy Start so probably not sparks. Haven’t found the gremlin yet. Latest suggestion is to sell it for spares. JJC

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Just tried petrol straight into the manifold. Not even a splutter. A fair imitation of the Monty Python parrot. Suggests although there’s spark maybe it’s just to feeble? I’ve already tried another coil. I guess even a very weak spark would fire on Easy Start. JJC

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If your using new NGK plugs and they have got wet throw them in the bin and fit a new set, its a known problem with them that if they get wet in the first few times of using due to incorrect timing or over fuelling then it will kill them, after they have been run for a while then they are fine.

Stuart.

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My dad used to get a blow torch - plumbers type- on plugs like that. Often brought them back. 

He’d also try and get them back in the car hot to aid starting on his alvis before it was rebuilt by a John Hadwick and then was right for 25 years ......

it also got addicted to easy start before rebuild. 

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5 hours ago, stuart said:

If your using new NGK plugs and they have got wet throw them in the bin and fit a new set, its a known problem with them that if they get wet in the first few times of using due to incorrect timing or over fuelling then it will kill them, after they have been run for a while then they are fine.

Stuart.

They are new plugs (second set!) but Champion. I think I tried the ones out of the 2 as well but have tried so many things I can’t remember what I have and haven’t done. JJC

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On 1/27/2019 at 6:02 PM, Paul J said:

+1 John just had that problem starting a 6, everything checked out fine, then found the rotor arm not pointing at No1 lead. Think Waldi had a similar problem also.

Very unlikely as you have had it running.

Paul

Sorry for coming in late, I do not follow the TR4 forum regular. My TR6 was running but poorly, so there may be something common

Regarding the rotor position relative to the leads: I had an old distributor so was curious is it had the same issue I experienced on my TR6 (see post “her first start” on the tr6 forum), where the rotor did not align with the ignition lead position in the distributor cap at the moment of ignition (points just start to open). So I put new points in the old dizzy, adjusted the gap (0,35-0,4 mm), marked the position of the ign leads on the dizzy body (blue marks) to see it they matched. I did this with the knurled nut in both extreme positions: threaded rod fully in and fully out. See below pics. The upper situalion looks ok to me, there is sufficient overlap for centrifugal advance or vacuum retard (if you have that).

The lower pic (fully out) shows they are just or just not aligned, and once you increase rpm, the centrifugal advance will make it worse!

it may be worth checking this. You can correct by screwing the threaded rod with the knurled nut fully in (I removed the circlip at the end to have a couple of extra mm. Then you rotate the dizzy body to get the static timing right again. It worked for me, but I still do not understand how this happened and why I have this on 2 dizzy’s. I think I may not fully understand what’s going on, but it worked. I hope some wise dizzy persons on this forum can clarify/correct me.

Waldi

2350821E-1E00-418A-B321-BF02DC7E4723.jpeg

C8903CE4-883D-4D90-81D4-792960EFC2B0.jpeg

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16 hours ago, Tim Carr said:

Why not check the voltage at the coil with the ignition on? If the voltage is low leading to a dull spark the ignition switch may need a clean or replacement.

Tim

Just checked volts drop to 7 when cranking starter. Battery has had a bit of hammering so will check again after charging it. JJC

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5 hours ago, JJC said:

Just checked volts drop to 7 when cranking starter. Battery has had a bit of hammering so will check again after charging it. JJC

What is the voltage with ignition on and not cranking? If it is down relative to the battery it could be the ignition switch at fault.

Tim

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2 hours ago, Tim Carr said:

 it could be the ignition switch at fault

Or anything else between the battery and the coil! Fusebox is more likely to be a high resistance I'd have thought.

Where were you measuring 7 volts, and with respect to what? (i.e. where was the other lead of your meter?)

Pete

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The 7 volts was between the live input to the coil and ground. When not operating the starter it’s 11 volts. But I’ve been reminded that we put a separate battery across the coil and it still didn’t fire. Might try that again. I would have thought 7 volts was a bit low. 

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8 hours ago, harrytr5 said:

Ballast coil?

Regards Harry

I didn’t think the 4 cylinder cars had ballast resistors. But today I measured the coil volts on the TR2 which does work. A good 10 volts when cranking so when I’ve put the carbs back on I’ll try a good battery powering the coil separately and see what happens JJC

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Have you measured your coil primary resistance. It should be 3 Ohm for your car, and then 7V is very low, I think too low.

Waldi

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1 hour ago, Waldi said:

Have you measured your coil primary resistance. It should be 3 Ohm for your car, and then 7V is very low, I think too low.

Waldi

Waldi, yes I checked the resistance and it is down there at the odd few ohms. I reckon 7 volts is too low. Plan to have another look tomorrow. JJC

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