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Waldi

Her first start

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Hi Steve!

thanks, I thought the same, moving the body will also move the base plate, so I think the spark now is “in between” two terminals. The dizzy has no teeth, so I’m afraid I will have to remove the pedestral with MU, then rotated te gear below one tooth. Do you agree?

will first TRy swapping the leads one position as proposed by Peter.

Waldi

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RESULT:)

we spapped the leads one position and it fired straight away, jippyyyy

Black smoke, now ready for the 20 mins running in at 2000 +rpm

Thank you all for the terrific support, am in heaven now:)

Waldi

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Fantastic news Waldi !

gotta love the forum for all the advice you’ll ever need, and some you don’t need !

steve

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Hi Waldi,

Great news!! If ever there is a problem with a new engine start, 9 times out of 10 there's a simple answer. Well done for finding it.

Time for a beer... Or 3.

Nigel

Edited by Nigel Triumph
Typo

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Congratulations Waldi. Huge milestone and Great news. I bet your clothes stink of exhaust fumes this evening :D.

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Update:

it run ok for 12 minutes all 6 cilinders, and “nervous” like it should, but the ignition ( with strobe) was way off. This must be because the terminal positions and the rotor don’t line up.

after 12 minutes at 2000-2500 rpm the engines started boiling and I decided to stop.

Rotating the dizzy body does not solve this timing issue, since the points rotate the same angle. The baseplate should require rotation relative to the dizzy body. More homework, but good progress for this day!

Waldi

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I’m celebrating your success with a bottle of Cobra, only thing we had in!

timing easy to sort now its running

steve

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Hi Waldi,

First of all: congratulations, good job!

You write the timing is way off with the strobe. Before you said you checked the timing, how exactly did you check?

Regards Peter.

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Hi Sean indeed, my clothes smell great, think I’ll wear them for another week at least, the smell of success is addictive.

But I think I do not fully comprehend the situation (all solutions start with that insight ).

Can someone explain what is needed to correct the relative position between rotor and terminal? My ignition timing is way off.

Thanks (as ever),

Waldi

 

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I have had a beeer but.....

you rotate the distributor to get the timing you want

i know you checked the tdc mark is actually tdc, so what is the difficulty?

as you’ve moved the ignition leads you’ve moved the timing, so just turn the distrib , probably anti-clockwise to retard the ignition as you moved the leads clockwise which advanced it?

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Hi Waldi

Congrats well done a great feeling I am sure. From what you say your timing was too retarded so you  could have left the leads where they were and just advanced the ignition.  Sounds like you need to double check your timing marks on the flywheel.

Roger

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Roger,
My timing marks on the pulley are correct, pulley mark is within one degree of true TDC (checked with DTI).

Peter,
I have set the static timing as follows:

1) set points gap at 0.4 mm (15 thou).

2) set crankshaft at 10 degrees BTDC and revolved dizzy body until points opened, then fixed dizzy body.

3) Checked exact cranksshaft position by pushing car slowly fwd in 4th gear, so all play is on correct side, and the points indeed open at 10 dger. BTDC.

So points are set correct, relative to crankshaft, but.....at this situation, the rotor tip is not at #1, it is some 30 dizzy-degrees off.
I tried to adjust this with the little knurled screw on the dizzy, that can move the base plate relative to the body, but this has insufficient range. Swapping cables does not resilve this, as that will give a "correction" of 60 degress (dizzy-degrees).

Looks like I do not fully understand something I worked on for 25 years or so.

Waldi

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Roger,
My timing marks on the pulley are correct, pulley mark is within one degree of true TDC (checked with DTI).

Peter,
I have set the static timing as follows:

1) set points gap at 0.4 mm (15 thou).

2) set crankshaft at 10 degrees BTDC and revolved dizzy body until points opened, then fixed dizzy body.

3) Checked exact cranksshaft position by pushing car slowly fwd in 4th gear, so all play is on correct side, and the points indeed open at 10 dger. BTDC.

So points are set correct, relative to crankshaft, but.....at this situation, the rotor tip is not at #1, it is some 30 dizzy-degrees off.
I tried to adjust this with the little knurled screw on the dizzy, that can move the base plate relative to the body, but this has insufficient range. Swapping cables does not resilve this, as that will give a "correction" of 60 degress (dizzy-degrees).

Looks like I do not fully understand something I worked on for 25 years or so.

Waldi

 

 

 

2) set crankshaft at 10 degrees BTDC and revolved dizzy body until points opened, then fixed dizzy body.

With #1 on its firing stroke I assume ?

Stan

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Yes Stan.

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Hi Waldi,

            I have followed your sadness and excitement on this thread.

Ref your comment  My timing marks on the pulley are correct, pulley mark is within one degree of true TDC (checked with DTI)

 It is not usually successful to set #1 Piston to TDC with a DTI as you can get a fair amount of crank rotation with almost zero piston lift

One normally uses a piston stop 10 or 20 degrees before/aft TDC and split the difference

 

Roger

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Hi Waldi,

the way you describe setting the timing is correct. This means the timing of crankshaft to distributor points is OK.

The reason I asked for a pic of the opened distributor is because when the points open, the finger has to be close to a plug contact. If it is in between two plug contacts then a lot of spark will be lost or arrive at the wrong spark plug. If you machine holes in a distributor cap and simulate this condition, you will see a spark inside the distributor cap. A lot of energy gets lost, the engine will run but will stutter if you press the pedal.

My suggestion of moving the leads is not the solution, it is to check if the finger is in the wrong position. This can be corrected by moving the baseplate.

Regards Peter.

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Hi Waldi,

I had some problems uploading a pic, here it is, now it seems to work again.

If you check the timing by pointing the strobe inside the cap, you can actually see to which lead the spark is firing, or if the spark is leaving top or heel of the finger:

IMG_1464k.thumb.jpg.d5e6da8925cc059d55b1d3a90eb8c7b1.jpg

 

The pin on the baseplate which connects to the spring is in the wrong postion on the pic, yours is even more out:

IMG_1428k.thumb.jpg.bade348c2621bd4ae997312b23c54080.jpg

 It has to be in the area of the rectangular dome in the casting, pin and according area are marked green:

IMG_1476k.thumb.jpg.284c0c3b10e819302c13d8badd0c3bba.jpg

Maybe the baseplate has been changed by a wrong part, or the spring is wrong, I cannot tell you.

 

As a TR friend had an issue with his ignition I found out by experimenting on a distributor test rig. It took me months to find the problem, after correcting the position of the baseplate, the engine ran as it should do.

 

Regards Peter.

 

 

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Hi Waldi   Great news  nearly there.....

Think if you turn the engine to 10 degrees before TDC #1 and turn the distributer body to the next cam anticlockwise, and turn the thumb screw the opposite way to what you have now I think the body of the distributer will be in the correct position, you will then have to move the plug leads round one position to the anticlockwise position.

My tacho cable runs across the top of the MU.

John

Edited by John L

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Looks like you need to remove the distributor drive gear and move it by a tooth to get the rotor arm in a better position.

Bear in mind the mechanical advance, this will move the rotor arm relative to the distributor cap terminals, and the rotor arm needs to be next to the terminal throughout its range of movement. You can reproduce this by twisting the rotor arm against the springs of the advance mechanism.

Vacuum advance doesn't have the same effect as it moves the base plate not the shaft. The best way of seeing it all is to cut the top off an old distributor cap leaving the contacts in place.

I have a few engines using Megasquirt engine management triggered from lumenition ignition. With these the shaft is fixed but the rotor arm needs very careful positioning as it has to account for the full range of advance which can be 40 degrees or more.

Neil

Edited by Stagpowered

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58 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Waldi,

            I have followed your sadness and excitement on this thread.

Ref your comment  My timing marks on the pulley are correct, pulley mark is within one degree of true TDC (checked with DTI)

 It is not usually successful to set #1 Piston to TDC with a DTI as you can get a fair amount of crank rotation with almost zero piston lift

One normally uses a piston stop 10 or 20 degrees before/aft TDC and split the difference

 

Roger

Hi Roger,

that is exactly what I did.

Waldi

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Hi Peter,

I think I follow your logic.

If the points open (which starts the spark), the rotor shoyld be opposite of the terminal. I not, part of the spark is lost. 

Do you agree it does not matter where the rotor is exactly, as long as the brass part is opposite the terminal in the cap?

John,

I tried that, but was not succesful. The

Neil,

if I relocate the drive gear say by one teeth , the rotor will be at the correct location, but the points will move equally. I think my issue is caused by the relative position of base plate in body, as Peter showed.

Thanks,

Waldi

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