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Waldi

Her first start

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Did your engine kick at all when you fed it either? If not it's probably ignition as your valve timing seems to be OK.

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Sorry about last post!  I was going to say after reading your last post, is that PRV might be ok, but your pump might not be. Also I would connect up the enrichment choke it will make life  a lot easier for you. I can see that you have loads of suggestions what to do over the weekend and I am sure one of them will lead to cracking open the Champagne or maybe a beer.

Roger

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Hi Mike, Steve and Roger,

the choke lever is connected (but not the cam), and I used the choke (and also tried without) and opened the throttle, not, a bit and full, like every possible combination of choke and throttle.

The engine did not rev up, just the occasional stroke.

I plan to do the fuel pressure check and vent the line . I have not felt the plastic injectir lines, good tip! (Why did I not think of that myself, it is mentioned several times on the forum).

thanks,

Waldi

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Hi Waldi

After reading this through I would agree that if Number 1 is 10 TDC and both valves are closed and she is still not firing with a good squirt of ether then there is likely a lack of spark. Fit a spare coil and try again

I had a similar issue a few years ago when I went for a COPs set up over the normal coil pack and had forgot to earth the head and there was nothing after a week chasing the same  PI issues as here the light bulb came on after which she fired right up. 

Just keep plugging away and if you can get a mate to help to heads are better than one!

Andy

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Thanks Andy, I will change the coil first.

I will order a new distributor cap and leads as well, just to eliminate these as a possible cause.


Questions:

1) The rotors from DD (Martin) are famous on here, and have one; does the same apply for other parts like the dizzy cap, condensator, points, leads, coil?

2) Should you feel the pulses on the fule lines when just cranking too (i.e. with motor not running)?

 

Thanks,

Waldi

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Just a thought Waldi

do you have a friend nearby with a known working ignition system?, if so i’d be tempted to  swap in a complete working set to eliminate or confirm

Shame you aren’t nearer or we’d all be round ‘helping’ !

steve

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Hi Steve,

yes, I have a friend near-by with a TR6, I will first do my remaining checks and then ask him.

Regards,

Waldi

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50 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Hi Steve,

yes, I have a friend near-by with a TR6, I will first do my remaining checks and then ask him.

Regards,

Waldi

I’d at least have the cars next to each other to sanity check the ht leads etc :-)

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your first check is that you have a spark at the plugs. 2nd your dissey could be 180 out. it should try to fire with a spray of fuel etc and then re check the metering unit timing .

You have probably tried all of this ,just trying to help.

Found the 180 degree out on a knowledgeable member who was certain all was correct and at a loss as to why no go.

ROY

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Hi Waldi

DD(Martin) makes his own distributor caps, condenser and the points are Lucas with a fibre heal instead of plastic. I would definately recommend the condenser as it has 3 meters of wire windings as opposed 1.5 meters from the opposition.  Have a look at his web site its quite interesting.

Roger

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Update (whatelse on a Saturday night):

 This afternoon we checked:

1) Fuel pressure at MU inlet: 7.0 barg (102 psig) so ok. Volume (flowrate) is likely ok, based on the quick pressurization.

2) Fuel delivery at injectors, each injector gave a clear cone, not a fine mist. The fuel lines were clearly pulsing and could be felt with two fingers.

3) Replaced the coil with another one, both non-ballested, 3,0 resp. 3.5 Ohm.

4) Voltage during cranking: 11.5V at battery, 10.5 V at coil, so should be ok. We also connected a separate (dedicated) battery to the coil (12.4 V), it made no difference.

4) Closed the butterflies (they were a bit open, and opened the idle screw a bit.

None of the above gave any improvement, not even the slightest bit.

I feel confident the ignition - and valve timing are correct, but at the same time I realize checking your own work is never conclusive, so will change the leads 180 degr on the cap, just as a practical check.

next on my list is to order new points, cap, rotor and leads, so I can rule this out.

Roy,

I have set the MU timing per the manual, but not checked it recently. Some say MU timing is not critical, what do you think? My first thought is that since ether also gave no improvement, this points to an ignition issue. 

Any suggestions are welcome. 

Thanks again for the continued support!

Waldi

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Hi Waldi,

MU timing is not critical. With Lucas injection the injectors are spraying in front of the butterflies. More or less the same as a carburettor. Also Bosch mechanical injection did not have intermittent supply, but was delivering constantly. The mixture is „waiting“ until the valve opens. Timing of the MU certainly has effect on how the engine runs at idle, but the correct timing will be different from the manual because our petrol today is different from petrol in 60-70ties.

Could you remove the distributor cap and make a picture?

Regards, Peter.

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Hi Peter,

thanks, that was my thinking too, but not backed up by much experience on the Lucas system. Will make a picture of the distributor tomorrow.

Waldi

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Hi Waldi

At Classic Le Mans a few years ago we watched an engine being changed in the pits. It would not fire, they checked everything except the timing despite the audience telling them it was probably 180 out. Eventually they checked and it was.started straight away.

So worth a check as even the experts can get this wrong.

Nigel

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Pete and Nigel,

thanks.

I had a new set of points with the fibrax finger (“good quality”), the points installed were also new but with a plastic finger, so I installed these this morning, just to rule out the points. It made no difference.

I then swapped the opposite ign leads to change the ign timing 180 degrees (camshaft) or 360 degreess crankshaft as you recommended. It gave a firm blast (flame) back out of the inlets (no plenum installed), ON EVERY stroke, so that is positive, in a way. I think this is what you get if the ignition is 180 camshaft degrees out of phase, So I will swap back to how they were.

But the important thing I learnt from this is that I have proper fuel and ignition!

So this is pointing in a timing issue, but what riming: valves, ignition or MU.

This begins to look like a quizz, please keep those suggestions coming.

Waldi 

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Here are pics from the ignition after I replaced the points. Leads are installed on the position I think they should be (before the swap excercise).

Waldi

D8273203-56F6-42AF-9B5A-DCCA82EA528D.jpeg

BDF5A986-51B8-4214-9A38-0C417E05247B.jpeg

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Hi Waldi,

I can't follow the HT leads in the photo too well, but are you sure its wired to fire 153624 with a counterclockwise rotation.

 

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Waldi,

leads are ok provided finger points at cylinder 1 lead @ tdc (7 or 8 oclock position). Maybe you can make another pic with finger and tdc.

Jochem

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Hi Mike and Jochem,

Yes, I Think the leads are in the correct position and the rotor is at 7 o’clock when firing #1, but to make sure I will make a pic later today (not at home at the moment).

Waldi

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Hi Waldi,

Please change position of the leads on the cap: remove 4, replace by 1, put 5 in old position of 1, 3 in old position of 5, etc. So change all positions clockwise by one position.

Please try to start now.

Regards, Peter.

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I guess the engine earth is good as the starter turns.

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Hi Waldi

peter might have best me to it. But this is how my dizzy looks. Yours looks to be out compared to mine

2F17127C-98EC-4926-BA11-0C66E4F77FAC.jpeg

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The guys might be onto something with the leads, but best to turn engine to tdc on 1 on compression stroke and see where the rotor is pointing = plug lead 1

Edited by Steves_TR6

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Think we are getting closer. See attached pic. This shows the rotor at 10 degr BTDC, point are just starting to open, but this is a bit to early, the rotor tip it not yet at #1 lead terminal. Can I just rotate the dizzy body clock wise or is it more complicated?

Waldi

1BDE8ED1-61A1-4603-8D4B-C02D7C8DFAC2.jpeg

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Hi Waldi

i dont think that will work as the points will then open at a different time and cancel out!

i think you need to install the distributor one tooth round on the drive, unless you can get away with rotating the plug leads one clockwise as suggested above

can see if the rotor is lining up with the previous electrode or not, might be

steve

 

Edited by Steves_TR6

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