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InfinityJon

And so it begins.....

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Not going to powder coat as I have read many horror stories about cracking and flaking. Over time. Unseen developing rust behind a good looking finish. 

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4 minutes ago, InfinityJon said:

Not going to powder coat as I have read many horror stories about cracking and flaking. Over time. Unseen developing rust behind a good looking finish. 

XJ40 front subframes were a classic example, they looked fine on the outside but they rotted from the inside out due to a few stone chips.

Stuart.

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My floors were powder-coated on the inside of cockpit. Rusted underneath the powder-coating. Not good.

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18 minutes ago, Sapphire72 said:

My floors were powder-coated on the inside of cockpit. Rusted underneath the powder-coating. Not good.

Yep. Not going down that route. 

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I did fancy my chassis dark grey. Anything stopping me painting in Chassis black and then POR15 2k topcoat in in dark grey?

are the paints compatible?  Am I wasting my time?

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No and Yes.

Bit hard on you really, I'm not sure about the POR 15 on top of Chassis black, but as pointed out a number of times in this thread POR 15 is designed and goes on best over bare metal which has been shotblasted.

Give a lot of weighting to Stuarts advice, he does it for a living and every year a good number of TR owners of all models (including Italias and other TR based models) pass through his workshop being totally renovated and turned out in great condition with long lasting results. If you needed a heart bypass and spoke to a heart surgeon who said "I do it this way" why would anybody try to develop a better system than that used by a respected professional in the job ?

Your choice of what you do of course, but just think of the heartache if your home brewed mix of finishes start to come off in a couple of years after being finished.

Mick Richards 

 

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Powder coat can certainly fail, for most of the same reasons that paint can fail--sub-par materials, inadequate surface prep, or poor application.  I too have seen instances of rust undermining PC, but that can happen with paint, too.   In the cases I recall, the PC was applied too thick, which of course makes it brittle and prone to cracking or chipping.  It is really easy to overdo it with a powdercoat gun, since there aren't the same surface cues for thickness that wet paint has.  Powder coat thickness should run maybe 3x or so the thickness of a coat of paint, or about the same as a coat of primer and a couple of top coats.

I understand and respect other opinions, but I really believe that well applied, quality PC is at least as durable as well applied, quality paint. 

For me, the decision usually comes down to the size of the part and how soon I need it.

Ed

Edited by ed_h

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11 hours ago, ed_h said:

Powder coat can certainly fail, for most of the same reasons that paint can fail--sub-par materials, inadequate surface prep, or poor application.  I too have seen instances of rust undermining PC, but that can happen with paint, too.   In the cases I recall, the PC was applied too thick, which of course makes it brittle and prone to cracking or chipping.  It is really easy to overdo it with a powdercoat gun, since there aren't the same surface cues for thickness that wet paint has.  Powder coat thickness should run maybe 3x or so the thickness of a coat of paint, or about the same as a coat of primer and a couple of top coats.

I understand and respect other opinions, but I really believe that well applied, quality PC is at least as durable as well applied, quality paint. 

For me, the decision usually comes down to the size of the part and how soon I need it.

Ed

If all the old finish is  bead/sand blasted off, then pickled and the chassis is then galvanized by someone like Medway Galvanizing then powder coated you are in a different league to rust resistance. I would not recommend powder coating without galvanizing or zinc and pas.

Bruce.

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.

Surely., without a definitive reference in numerous years ..and daily driver / all weather use - it seems to me (with all due respect like) that any other answer is no more practical than "I did this and now live in hope that it'll OK " sort of reply.  or else "the car was restored x number of years ago, but tbh  for most of those the owner probably avoided taking the car out in the wet,  dirt, or snow"  .. a situation similar to last Thursday's TR group meeting where the turnout was a reflection of the weather forecast and then as dark clouds approached over half of those present scampered away. 

I don't mean this as a criticism of those owners, nor to an previous post made (above)  ..because why let the car get soaking wet ..only to then have to wipe it dry and polish it again ?  I can appreciate for many of us - it simply wouldn't be worth the effort, for a monthly club meeting, when in a couple of weeks time we'll be attending an annual rally or classic car show.  But my point is Unless the chassis and its rust prevention treatment has frequently seen wet and winter road dirt.,  then an endorsement of its paint / protection is somewhat without substance. 

After all,  most of these cars chassis' survived adequately as neglected daily drivers and were parked in the street, through all sorts of climates, with their original paint and splodges of under-seal for 40 or 50 years before they were 'properly' restored.  Surely, that's the known yardstick for us to compare any modern coating with.? 

Personally, I'd never heard of Bondarust  (..and tend to avoid any product with that sort of name)..,  so was thinking POR-15 for my chassis (once that had been sandblasted to ensure a good key).  I've used this stuff inside petrol tanks to seemingly good effect, but to be honestly I have no idea how long ago others used this on a chassis nor how well it stays on after 30 years ?  ..yeah OK you're right, I'll probably be pushing daisies up in ten to fifteen,  but that's not the point ..or is it ?

So, can we possibly cut to the chase once and for all, and simply ask :  Has anyone / themselves : restored / painted their chassis or the underside of any car, wheel-arches, etc., 20, 30 or more years ago and still uses that car frequently throughout the year in a wet weather climate.?   What rust protection did you use and how has it subsequently stood up to the task ?

Thanks.

.

Edited by Bfg

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2 hours ago, Bfg said:

.

Surely., without a definitive reference in numerous years ..and daily driver / all weather use - it seems to me (with all due respect like) that any other answer is no more practical than "I did this and now live in hope that it'll OK " sort of reply.  or else "the car was restored x number of years ago, but tbh  for most of those the owner probably avoided taking the car out in the wet,  dirt, or snow"  .. a situation similar to last Thursday's TR group meeting where the turnout was a reflection of the weather forecast and then as dark clouds approached over half of those present scampered away. 

I don't mean this as a criticism of those owners, nor to an previous post made (above)  ..because why let the car get soaking wet ..only to then have to wipe it dry and polish it again ?  I can appreciate for many of us - it simply wouldn't be worth the effort, for a monthly club meeting, when in a couple of weeks time we'll be attending an annual rally or classic car show.  But my point is Unless the chassis and its rust prevention treatment has frequently seen wet and winter road dirt.,  then an endorsement of its paint / protection is somewhat without substance. 

After all,  most of these cars chassis' survived adequately as neglected daily drivers and were parked in the street, through all sorts of climates, with their original paint and splodges of under-seal for 40 or 50 years before they were 'properly' restored.  Surely, that's the known yardstick for us to compare any modern coating with.? 

Personally, I'd never heard of Bondarust  (..and tend to avoid any product with that sort of name)..,  so was thinking POR-15 for my chassis (once that had been sandblasted to ensure a good key).  I've used this stuff inside petrol tanks to seemingly good effect, but to be honestly I have no idea how long ago others used this on a chassis nor how well it stays on after 30 years ?  ..yeah OK you're right, I'll probably be pushing daisies up in ten to fifteen,  but that's not the point ..or is it ?

So, can we possibly cut to the chase once and for all, and simply ask :  Has anyone / themselves : restored / painted their chassis or the underside of any car, wheel-arches, etc., 20, 30 or more years ago and still uses that car frequently throughout the year in a wet weather climate.?   What rust protection did you use and how has it subsequently stood up to the task ?

Thanks.

.

In answer to your question yes mine was restored 26 years ago now and has been used in all weathers and Im no polisher, the chassis and underside which was done the same way as I always do them as illustrated earlier in this thread and has had a good drowning in waxoyl several times over the years is still as good as when it was done, your welcome to come and inspect it anytime you like. (FWIW Bondarust name means the same as POR15 which for those who dont know means "Paint over Rust!")

Stuart.

Stuart.

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Edited by stuart

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That was a few years ago Harrogate yep it was wet,I will stick with my method stripped bare then Bondarust followed by 2pack lorry paint as used on concrete wagons from new,ten+years on and heavy use you can still shave in it like a mirror,  :rolleyes:

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I agree with Neil a Stuart bondarust  good stuff and not just for chassis  either

graham

8FA98FB9-BE54-41F6-8D99-56BCFBD9D6EC.jpeg

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4 hours ago, stuart said:

In answer to your question yes mine was restored 26 years ago now and has been used in all weathers and Im no polisher, the chassis and underside which was done the same way as I always do them as illustrated earlier in this thread and has had a good drowning in waxoyl several times over the years is still as good as when it was done, your welcome to come and inspect it anytime you like. (FWIW Bondarust name means the same as POR15 which for those who dont know means "Paint over Rust!")

Stuart.

First rate - Thanks Stuart..  that's what we need.!     A context of ; two & a half decades in use, an indication of the degree of pampering and all weather use, together with your previous posts to say what was used  ..and then adding in that you've waxoiled (internal injections I presume) several times over those years is so very much more complete.  And the fact that you would do exactly the same again now (..and in fact commercial do so) is an excellent endorsment..   I for one bow to your experience and propose to follow suit.  Many thanks indeed.

Pete.

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I've used Waxoyle for 30+ years on my dads cars/vans and a 2007 Honda Jazz from new (wife's car) and it has worked well as long as it was put on a clean surface to start with and is reapplied every couple of years no rust problems at all. I just wish it did not stink as much as it does.

Also tried Bilthammers wax on a MX5 or two and it seems to work well over powder coat and POR 15 after 5 years.

I think the key is to keep topping the wax up. 

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Front end all stripped and waiting for sand blasting. Passenger side is a pile of bits while drivers side has been mostly blasted and waiting in temporary  bondarust for a quick re blast and two coats of POR15. I have to say, POR15 is some good gear!  

Passenger side front wishbone joins had completely seized and I ended up drilling out the castle bolt.  There was no flex in any of the suspension  as if it had been welded together.

Once I am ready for  another batch of painting I hope to have all the drivers side front components painted and then wrapped in bubble wrap ready for final assembly.  It will be new front shocks as both were devoid of oil and not doing much damping.

Everyone should buy a sand blaster £159  - how fast is derust?  Best money spent so far on the job.  New parts....perfect.

 

 

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Chassis stripped and the next task is to replace the two outriggers. From what I can see that’s tho only but of rust on the chassis. (Famous lasts words)FE6D6892-10F7-4376-97A5-35048DFE2C59.thumb.jpeg.41c1abdabccdda4130de3ffec50b7993.jpeg

Made the jig to ensure I keep the existing location and it should do both sides when it’s flipped and more location bolts are welded on. 

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POR15 painted the inside of the new out riggers to ensure their longevity. 

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Will brace right across the chassis so it remains flat during the process. 

Will need to slit the tee shirt off an see what’s lurking underneath. I’ll do the bottom when I turn the chassis. 

 

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Sundays progress was fair. One out riggers in and the other side cut out ready. 

Modified the jig to deal with the offside. 

Still to slit off the tea shirt but felt it was better to do one structural job at a time so no to get the frame out of shape. I’ll get the offside out rigger secure then do the T-shirt. Judging from the amount of oils between the plates, I think it’s going to be ok underneath. 

 

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This weekend saw good progress. 

Both new out riggers welded in. T Shirt peeled  back and re welded. No rust. Just lots of oil.- preservative. 7E8BA40A-2F8A-4EF2-89F8-40C27B0C114F.thumb.jpeg.092f6c42af4ca9c18dcb55487b6032f4.jpeg

The Diff mount, what can I say. No picture does justice to the shear beauty of the previous owners welding.  Pigeon poo a plenty. None of it actually forming any sort of bond. 500DFF50-029B-4896-AB5B-6E76A97E9C43.thumb.jpeg.c4c9304571f99add7fdd2c6e2f4da815.jpegFA567201-DE30-4699-B855-16F10E079FD1.thumb.jpeg.1f510d67fa463c6023b9b67f115c287f.jpeg

I’m no welder but really?8B419503-AF98-42EC-92A8-11761656B452.thumb.jpeg.ef839dc4818d2c4ec9ec0befe2590292.jpeg58A34648-8843-49EA-AC48-C2F6CB8E9312.thumb.jpeg.f15c68b15b4e8e7566d9abbc927b7e12.jpeg

Massive amount of stress cracks on the top of the crossmember. Dealt with by cleaning up and fully welding the cracks, ensuring really good penetration. B86671DA-A495-40BE-BABF-C6533BDDB6C4.thumb.jpeg.357584bc3947b89de3f629dfbf9b1f3f.jpeg

I think all the welding is now done on the chassis and next stage sandblasting and POR15

 

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 Very good Jon,

I recommend to do a thorough visual inspection after grit blasting, before coating, as this may reveal some more fatigue cracks. I found a couple at that stage, all on the front suspension attachments. 

Waldi

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Hopefully you have plated around the pins on the top of the spring bridge and the shock bridge as well as plating the sides of the lower attachment bridges?

Stuart.

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Side plates et al. These were purchased from The Roadster Factory. Perfectly pre-cut.

DSCF1147 (2).JPG

Edited by Sapphire72

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B)

Great progress Jon

On 9/8/2019 at 6:55 PM, InfinityJon said:

No picture does justice to the shear beauty of the previous owners welding.  Pigeon poo a plenty. None of it actually forming any sort of bond.

Not necessarily for you Jon but for anyone having problems with their mig welding < this >  Youtube might be helpful.

Pete.

 

Edited by Bfg

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2 hours ago, Bfg said:

B)

Great progress Jon

Not necessarily for you Jon but for anyone having problems with their mig welding < this >  Youtube might be helpful.

Pete.

 

Nice video. I want that welder.

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Question. Diff mount posts. 

To reinforce them, after I have welded in the additional plates, can I grind the protruding part of the pin flush with the cross beam and 5mm plate over the whole thing say using a 70x70x5mm MS plate?  First it foul the tub?

Typical detail for all 4?

cheers. 

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