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Buying advice TR3 1958?


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hello I am Siebe from Belgium.
I went to see a triumph tr3 last week but I noticed some strange things.

It is a tr3 that was first registered in America in 1958.
It is a small mouth and does not have separate indicators at the back.
The chassis has the drum brakes in front. Has no overdrive.

the identification plate is: TS22449 LO


The enginenumber is : TS68186 E
Could it be that it is a 1956 car (drum brakes, no seperate indicators ) with an other engine and wrong identification plate?
Is there someone who can give me more information about this?

Best regards

Siebe


 
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I would agree, drum brakes was only 1956, & commission No. would be  around 10000.

Maybe it's a 56 chassis with a 58 body on top ?  check to see which rear axle it has, that changed along with drums to discs, & separate master cylinders.

Bob.

Edited by Lebro
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Siebe,

If you have a body with no seperate rear indicators, a small mouth front apron

and a chassis with drum front brakes, that suggests an early TR3 as Bob suggests.

The simplest excuse for the commission/engine numbers would be a common

engine swap and perhaps a previous US owner, having more TR3a commission plates

than TR3 commission plates!.The long term problem will be, if you do buy the car, having

to explain the incorrect commission number to someone looking for an TR3 without an

identity crisis?

 

Good luck

Roger M-E

 

 

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Siebe,

Over the 60-year life of the car, many things are likely to have changed,
so look at the items that are not easy to change.

The rear panel is welded on so is the least likely to change. Indicators
on the rear panel were introduced for the TR3A.

Disc brakes were fitted from approx. TS 13045 and I cannot see why
anyone would retro fit drum brakes to a disc brake car.

The front panel can easily be changed and many owners prefer the TR3
small mouth style.

The engine is easily changed.

Be aware that the official TR3/3A model change at 22014 was not 'clean'
and a few TR3 features were carried over for a short time.

Your car may be a restoration containing the best parts from two cars.
That's been done many time.

It looks like the body and chassis are from a 1956 TR3 but with a later
chassis plate.

On the bulkhead, above the battery, there should be two plates. Check
these numbers. One is an EB body number - this should be the same,
approximately, as the TS identification plate. The other will be a much
larger number and this can be dated approximately. Also, it may show
on a trace of the original specification (available to club members from
the TR Register TR2/3/3A/3B Registrar, or from BL Heritage).

It looks to me as if you have a combination of two cars and although
research will identify some of the story, it's unlikely you will ever be able
to find out the whole story.

AlanR

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Siebe,

Officially, it is what the registration document says it is.

In reality, it's often impossible to tell exactly what a car is.
The sidescreen fixings are the later TR3A dzus-type - that
change happened a few thousand cars after the TR3A
was introduced.

Only comment I would add is that the rivet holding the
identification plate looks to be larger than the original
rivet so it looks like the plate has been removed and
re-fixed.
If the car is not too far away, you could check the two
numbers on plates just above the battery (and just
below the vent lid).

AlanR

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Just looking at the link, things I observe are:

TR3A front bumper, high port head with H6 carbs, Wiper motor fixings on the RH side (near commission No. Plate) indicating  early TR3

Boot lid has handle (TR3A) not Dzus (TR3), Commision No. plate is the later type, not original to that body. it should be much bigger.

Sidescreen fixings are later Dzus type (I am actually changing mine to Dzus as we speak so not unusual)

The text describes it as an early TR3, & I guess that is what it is, but with the wrong (later) commision No.

Bob.

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Looks to me to be a very early TR3A with a couple of TR3 features.

For a 3A:

  • The last TR3 was Comm 22013 approx. That Comm plate is probably original. This is the most telling feature.
  • It has the high port head and carbies.
  • 3A sidescreen fasteners, although this changed during the 3A production.
  • 3A bumper and bootlid.
  •  

For a 3:

  • It has TR2/3 doors, with 3A sidescreen fasteners. Maybe the doors were left over and used on the first 3As.
  • TR3 apron and grille.
  • The gearbox dipstick/filler hole in the gearbox tunnel. 2s and 3s had this hole and it changed during 3A production and as a very early 3A it might be standard.

Price wise it is too much in my view. The car needs a thorough probably body off rebuild and new floors and paint aren't cheap. It isn't a rare car and has no particularly desirable features.

But it looks straight and there is no reason it couldn't be a fantastic car with money and time.

Edited by John McCormack
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In my eyes - having restored a "wrecking yard special" - anything bolt-on may have been changed in the past or prior to selling in in order to sell a complete car.
So  forget about bumpers, sidescreen fasteners, high-port heads, gearbox tunnel etc

- The engine was changed or replaced in the past - the original engine number should be between 22449 and maybe 23xxx. TS68xyz is definitely not original engine.
- You can see the bolts for fixing areoscreens below the windscreen - they were standard until TS32833 (June 58) -> so this would be correct for an early TR3A or a real TR3
- The boot floor is "early"
- The rear panel seems to be correct for a early/mid TR3 without separate indicators: Rear looks as prior to TS16473 (Feb. 57)
- The wiper motor on the right side was standard until TS12567 (July 56)

So in my eyes many "not easy to modify"- details suggest, that this is a real TR3. There were several upgrades/ repairs like engine swap and change of side screens…

It will for sure be a full restoration - it may be worth the money if the frame is ok - the body looks quite ok.

 

Regards

Johannes

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