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How much for a full body respray on 5?


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I've been looking to get the bodywork on my 5 tidied up, it had a full restoration back 93 and from that date only has 7,000 odd miles on the clock, she had only done 1,500 miles in the 10 years before I got her in Aug 2017.

Very sound underneath with a couple of v small areas of rust spots on the sill.

The bonnet has cracks in the filler from the 93 job and virtually all the panels are now showing peeling underneath the paint, I was aware at the time I bought her that it would need a paint job. I'm no expert but several bodywork places have said it was covered up for too long so to do a decent job, back to bear metal.

I've been to four local bodywork shops in after doing my research, two have furnished me with estimates, they do everything (removing trim etc.) basically £15,000 and £11,000, the latter is not yet VAT registered hence £2,200 cheaper. The other two firms never got back to me despite repeated communications politely chasing the estimate.

Can I call on the experience of the members here for guidance please, can anyone give me a ball park figure of what I would expect to pay? Full body work, keeping same colour, Royal Blue with Surrey top, nothing to do underneath other than the two v small rust pots, and nothing to do under the bonnet. I will need to add additional costing for new seals and refit around the front and rear glass.

Thanks in advance, I'm in Essex just in case someone wants to recommend a firm in Dunnet Head, Scotland!

Mike ;)

 

 

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Hi Mike, £15 k for a re-spray is way over the top!  My advice is for you to remove all the outer panels and have them dipped to remove all the paint and filler from them.  Removing the trim is another job you can do yourself so why pay them to do it?  Take the seats out and remove all the carpets and trim panels.  You can then replace or refurbish as necessary.  I'm assuming that you don't want the interior of the tub painted but a good paint shop would mask up the dash board and anything else that needs protecting.   The panels can then be sprayed off the car on both sides which a normal re-spray would do.  If it was my car I would also take the opportunity to remove the screen from the car, take the class out and re- spray the frame at the same time to get a good match.   The front and rear valances front bulkhead and rear tonneau will have to be rubbed down and done at the spray shop  but that's not a big chore for a competent workshop.  You ought to get that done for £8k max.  If you cant find anyone in Essex to do that then take your car north to the midlands. There are plenty of places up here who can do the work for you. 

ps  I've just noticed that your car has a surrey top .  What I said about the front screen applies to the rear back light too. 

hoges. 

Edited by Paul Hogan
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Hi Mike,

 if it is really a bare metal job then it will cost quite a bit.  What sort of quality are you after?

You say that it is peeling under the paint !!  what is peeling.

As for the screens I would be concerned to remove the rear screen. With very careful masking and keeping the pain the same colour you should not have to remove the glass.

As per PH above if you are capable to do any of the prep work - trim bumpers etc - and the sprayers are happy then do it.

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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+ 1 for Paul's comments. Every car is different, but as a bench mark, I paid £7,500 for this last year. Expoxy 1st coat , all panels inside / out and underneath, stone chip , then 2 pack + clear coat on top. Well pleased with the finish. Excellent. This was done by "Paint Shop Pros" http://www.thepaintshoppros.co.uk/ho-to-find-contact-us/

I hope that helps

Best Bill

 

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Edited by Bill Bourne
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But Bill did you not take them a fully striped body ?

I get the impression that Mike wants to drive his car in ,sign the cheque and drive away which as you well know would take a lot of hours to re assemble on top of the painting.

Roy

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My 5 is booked in for April next year and I have been quoted £8000 + vat.

The car (not chassis) will be delivered to the paint shop having been stripped back to bare metal, treated with acid and an initial quote of primer applied. Paint shop will do some minor welding/leading, full primers, top colour coats, stone chip, wayoyl and ensure correct fitment of all panel/doors etc.

Tim

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2 hours ago, roy53 said:

But Bill did you not take them a fully striped body ?

I get the impression that Mike wants to drive his car in ,sign the cheque and drive away which as you well know would take a lot of hours to re assemble on top of the painting.

Roy

Hi Roy

Yes, your'e right, but this was a + 1 to Paul's post. i.e strip back yourself and get painted.  That's the choice and I guess the choice between £8k and £15k. I've just re-confirmed this £8k cost as a benchmark. 

 best Bill

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The last one I had painted inside and out with me fitting the glass dash etc was £5k no vat  ,the trouble is when they strip the paint off you are going to find the previous bodges etc that's why most places don't give a definite price, if you have the space and can use some basic tools take it apart ,i am sure the Essex boys would be willing to help .

another option get it rubbed down  repaired where needed ,masked up and have a fresh coat of paint it will look great .

Nick

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23 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi Mike,

 if it is really a bare metal job then it will cost quite a bit.  What sort of quality are you after?

You say that it is peeling under the paint !!  what is peeling.

As for the screens I would be concerned to remove the rear screen. With very careful masking and keeping the pain the same colour you should not have to remove the glass.

As per PH above if you are capable to do any of the prep work - trim bumpers etc - and the sprayers are happy then do it.

 

Roger

Hi Roger

Perhaps 'peeling' is the wrong word, 'small blistering' is evident on all the panels.

The seals need replacing on both front and rear glass plus there is a bit of corrosion on the front frame. Yes, I'm going to now think about seeing what I can remove myself.

Best wishes, Mike

 

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A huge thanks guys for all your help, thoughts and ideas.

I've pleased to say I've had two private messages recommending body sprayers plus a helpful phone call suggesting I go back to a couple of the sprayers and see what can be done on reducing the bill. I do wonder if I initially asked for too much including panel gaps when asking for the quote.  I'm beginning to understand how much work is now involved.

I'm going to digest all the responses and seriously see what I can do myself, you never know I might actually enjoy taking out the seats, trimming, bumpers, lights etc as some of you have suggested. Will let you know what I decide.

Thanks for finding the time re this, much appreciated. ;)

Best wishes,

Mike

 

 

 

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Hi Mike,

if you have visible corrosion (swelling/lumps etc) on the frame, is it the bottom nearside/offside corners.

If so prepare yourself for a surprise when you remove the windscreen frame.The underside of the frame may be a thing of the past

Can be repaired.

 

Roger

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I'll try and break down the costings.......

Car drives in complete, nothing removed...

Strip car of external trims, interior, screen surround, surrey etc                                                                                                                             40hrs

Remove outer panels, bare metal inside/out. strip decks, valances, sills etc                                                                                                      40hrs

Repair corrosion, re-fit panels, gap panels, remove panels, prep inside panels, paint inside panels, repair decks/valances/sills.            100hrs

fit panels, re-gap including surrey top, prepare & prime after removing bonnet/boot/surrey etc                                                                     160hrs

Flat primer, repair defects, re-prime/flat, mask up again, put in booth, clean, wet on wet primer, 3 coats base, 3 coats of clear               120hrs

Remove from booth, fully wet flat (1500-2000-3000 grit), machine polish, de-mask etc                                                                                   40hrs

Rebuild car including cleaning/painting original parts prior to fitting, final machine polish, cavity wax, build up etc                                   120hrs

 

Total     660 hours......................... Triumph specialist labour rate say £60ph + VAT  =  £39600.00

 

 

Average cost to customer for all the above???? £12000.00-£18000.00 + VAT + parts

 

Body work is not a money earner, trust me i know!!!

 

People who think prices being banded about are ridiculous then please see above. Or call me/pop in to see what actually goes into this!

 

Costs to set up/run a decent bodyshop....

 

booth/mixing room/workshop space (2000 sq ft) £50000.00

Stock/welders (mig/tig/spot)/consumables/jig/panel beating tools/compressor/compliant spray guns/gun cleaners etc etc £20000.00

Wages per annum per employee  £25000.00

Materials used per bare metal respray  £1800.00

Insurance/rent/mortgage/overheads etc per annum    £40000.00

 

To summarise, its a very labour intensive job, not forgetting honouring a warranty etc.........

 

Sorry for the long post..................... :)

 

Tom

 

 

 

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Thanks for the detailed information re costings Tom, helpful in understanding the other side of the quote.

I'm going to pop back and see the £11,000 guy and go through the estimate again to ascertain what he will be doing plus what I can do to help out. He's fully booked until May 19 so looking Nov that year. I need to take advantage that he is not yet VAT registered but that will come.

Really appreciate your time in posting, unable to like the post as it doesn't appear for moderators? So lots of ;)B):D:rolleyes::):ph34r::P:lol:

Best wishes,

Mike

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Further to Tom's post, it just goes to show that the economics of classic cars and their prices are totally mad!  Perhaps we all expect too much perfection?  It could also be that in this industry, a flat labour rate of £60 per hour plus VAT is not sustainable and the true market rate is nearer £20 per hour!    I'm an accountant and I charge some professionals out at £50 per hour (but some of us with tax expertise are around the £200 mark for consultancy).  However, I'd get a far cheaper staff to photocopy (ie the office equivalent of rubbing down perhaps!!?).  To my mind, quoting £60 plus VAT for everything is not realistic.  I also think that the time taken for something is not always scientifically ascertained.  I do recurring work so I can compare with last year. If sometime takes twice as long to do a set of books as last year, unless I can justify why this has happened, I am stuck with last years fee plus a bit for inflation.  Sometimes, people just take longer - particularly when they are not pushed to get on with the next job!  Just because experience tells you a job seems to take a certain amount of time, doesn't mean it should.  We act for a few small independent garages and one or two comfortably produce £100k profit per partner on lower rates.  However, all businesses are different and, at the end of the day, you make what you can from who you can.

Bob

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There are still some traders who flip TRs with a minimum amount of cosmetic work. This used to be the order of the day until this century or even before. Profits can still be had in this sector, if meager.

Now that they're half a century old +/- , many owners are tempted, and have the means to optimize the results well beyond factory levels. I still remember a UK TR6 restored in the last century by a " racing mechanic " who put 4000 hours into it. I think it fetched 16K GBP.

I'd say 1000 hours is to be expected if the example is in good condition to begin with. Less than that means very skilled craftsmen working with great efficiency, or...

TRs rarely fetch their cost of restoration in a sale though there's surely a market for restoring them for owner/keepers. Once they've all been restored the values will move up considerably, memories of time and expense factored therein. Another 10-15 years, perhaps?

 

Cheers,

Tom

 

 

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My first classis was an MGB-GT, 1969 model, this was in 1980, and this was considered a classic already, then.

I had removed all trim and sanded the paint and welded new sections in the bottom of the rear wings.

It was sprayed as a “weekend job”: I drove it to the body worker, on Saturday he used filler and smoothened on Saturday. On Sunday morning a filler was sprayed which we sanded together and then a primer applied, and in the afternoon it came out of the spray cabin in BRG, looking very nice!

I payd 600 guilders, which is probably 1000 euro by todays rates and inflation. This was without VAT. It was my daily driver, and when I sold it after 2 years, the paint was still good, no blisters or whatever.

The secret was a straight car, and an extremely competent body-worker, he only applied filler once. 

If a car requires no more then a new external coat, 2000 euro is what it would cost here currently, assuming all dismantling and sanding is done by the owner and only minor work is required by the shop, but it can even be done for even less.

But once a body requires correction of gaps, panel beating etc this number will easily triple or more, as explained above by Tom.

Waldi

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I originally sprayed the car at college with assistance from the tutor. A couple of years ago I decided to have a professional job and did all the stripping down myself. There was only minor body work to do, and they had it for a month fitting it in between insurance jobs. A great job and £2000 cash. There are a few imperfections but I prefer driving to polishing.

Nigel

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On 12/17/2018 at 5:08 PM, Tom Fremont said:

 

TRs rarely fetch their cost of restoration in a sale though there's surely a market for restoring them for owner/keepers. Once they've all been restored the values will move up considerably, memories of time and expense factored therein. Another 10-15 years, perhaps?

 

Cheers,

Tom

 

 

Can't see it myself - TRs are just not rare or good enough to be worth north of £30k.   Realistically you're running out of people who care that much about them with any money.  My bet is classic cars will fall long term.  They are part of the asset bubble that cheap credit has created.   Don't want to be morbid,  but they are mostly owned by people in their 70s - when theyre gone or too old to bother with them, there will be a lot of them around with no one to buy them.  As I said, buy them to drive and tinker with - not as a long term sure bet investment!! 

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15 hours ago, Bob Horner said:

Can't see it myself - TRs are just not rare or good enough to be worth north of £30k.   Realistically you're running out of people who care that much about them with any money.  My bet is classic cars will fall long term.  They are part of the asset bubble that cheap credit has created.   Don't want to be morbid,  but they are mostly owned by people in their 70s - when theyre gone or too old to bother with them, there will be a lot of them around with no one to buy them.  As I said, buy them to drive and tinker with - not as a long term sure bet investment!! 

These are valid points in the main, but some TRs have fetched well North of £30k, especially TR5s but a TR250 recently beat that in the 'States.

I'd say they are " good enough " when comparing to '60s Porsches and Alfas ( where outrageous sums are realized ) which the Michelotti TRs can despatch by brute force if necessary, and perhaps this sector is where we can expect nice appreciation. Don't forget that the iron engines of  <TR6 models don't corrode like their light alloy counterparts; this will be a factor as time wears on.

Younger people ( 40s-60s, who have the means ) will always appreciate sports cars they can fathom and tinker with, and everyone gets a kick out of having a hand in the viability of an attention-getting conveyance. Mine get approving stares and thumbs up from young people all the time ( old grumps are too proud, but sneak peeks just the same ).

Here in the 'States all manner of < 1975 cars are appreciating rapidly, many of which were pretty dreadful in their day.

 

Cheers,

Tom 

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Tom,

I don’t want to knock what you are saying, but I agree 100% with what Bob Horner said. I was going to write exactly the same, but he beat me to it.

Maybe it is different in the States, but I don’t think the younger generation in the UK are in the least interested in pre 1970’s cars.

As Bob said, many TR3 and TR4 owners here are well into their 60s, and many seem to have owned their cars for many many years. It would be interesting to see a graph of TR ownership against age of owner. (I’m almost 69 and I bought my 3a in 1972)

You also say “Younger people ( 40s-60s, who have the means ) will always appreciate sports cars they can fathom and tinker with,”

I think that most people under the age of 50 don’t have a clue how ANY part of a car works! Modern cars are so reliable they don’t need to know. They just want to get in them and drive.  My wife drove a 15 year old MX5 for 10+ years. We did countless European trips in it and NEVER once did it break down or play up in any way.

There was a phrase that always seemed to come up when people explained the reason they bought an eType Jag or a Lotus Elan, or a TR for example. It was “I used to see these cars on the road when I was a lad, and I told myself that one day I’d buy one.”

If someone has £8,000 (or what ever) for a respray, and will not miss it, then I can understand them spending it. But surely that car could not be driven as a daily driver, parked in a Tesco’s car park or suchlike. Even just one trip a month could end up with some idiot keying it or having some one clip a wing comming out of a side street.

But then it opens up a totally different discussion on whether you keep your car in a museum for people to admire, or do you use it to take rubbish to the tip once a week.
Personally I have a factory made tow-bar I’ll fit to mine. Just the job for hooking up to my 3x4 trailer.

Charlie.

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Granted classics become ever more expensive to buy and maintain, while reliability suffers due to reproduction / post production parts failing to meet production standards. This applies all round. I don't remember youth ever having much of a presence in the vintage/classic sector. The post war baby boomers ( we ) are a large cohort, we are relatively well off and are living longer, all of which bode well for our hobby.

TRs beat the averages because of their design and build quality ( e.g. see " iron " above ) and can still be used on long distance trips as well as locally for considerable mileage. My driver averages about 5000 miles a year for the last 25. There's a gent in California ( who had a cameo appearance in a recent TRAction ) whose TR6 is pushing towards 400,000 miles, all in his hands. I just don't see TRIUMPH's " peers " out and about the same way - ours seem to get driven far more. Most of them can keep up with modern traffic and some do better than that, another factor giving an edge over so-called peers from the era ( see what you can do with a 1300 cc Alfa ).

Cheers,

Tom

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