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Hamish

Hardtop hints and tips

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Hi folks

(yes I have searched the topic and found lots of useful info)

i have finally found a hardtop for my ‘59 TR3a ( yes that expensive steel (original ex works ?) green one off eBay.)

it was quite local and does seem to be rust free. It’s has the original headlining and the bars. Also has the screen fittings and the rear fitting brackets (but not the chrome Cappings) it has a good enough rear screen and all the rubbers are fitted and in fair condition. It also has the apature drip rails.

Only because I had nowhere else to put it. It’s now resting on the car. 

Fitting is not a million miles away. 

But

isn't there always a but ....... I fear my Revington tr roll bar may interfere with the fit esp on the right the drivers side. ( it fits with the hood frame and soft top)

Has as anyone experienced and importantly got over this ?

as I say I haven’t started on this yet. But I want to avoid expensive errors. 

I see that loose fitting is the way to go. Does one start at the front screen? 

Is there a spacing / raising method to get the hardtop to clear the roll bar. 

I know the ideal is hardtop to roll bar clearance but Can the hardtop  be “tensioned” down a little on to the bar.

I think we are talking 10mm or less. I’ll know more once I’ve started. And I guess after nearly 60 years and I think 2 rebuilds the car will have changed somewhat.

 

help welcome - but I really don’t want to cut my roll bar as it only just passes scrutineering at the moment with my helmet clearance.

i’ll Let you know how I go on warts and all. As I am a spanner novice, not a body work man or welder advice will have to be in plain English. 

 H

Ps

oh yes space is limited it’s a singe garage with the car and bench in it. !!

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TBH I thought that was cheap as its complete and not too rotten. There isnt really any way of raising the hardtop as it is what it is in the way of fitting. To fit the hardtop you need to get all of the bolts in and then go round tightening as if it was a cylinder head. Be especially careful with the front ones on the screen as if they dont come down square it will crack the screen after a while. If you remove the headlining you may fined you have enough clearance. Could you drop the seat any more and then be able to drop the bar a bit to suit?

Stuart.

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18 minutes ago, stuart said:

TBH I thought that was cheap as its complete and not too rotten. There isnt really any way of raising the hardtop as it is what it is in the way of fitting. To fit the hardtop you need to get all of the bolts in and then go round tightening as if it was a cylinder head. Be especially careful with the front ones on the screen as if they dont come down square it will crack the screen after a while. If you remove the headlining you may fined you have enough clearance. Could you drop the seat any more and then be able to drop the bar a bit to suit?

Stuart.

Thanks on all point Stuart. Esp that it’s not overly expensive perhaps I can explain that to my (new and  ever understanding :D) wife.

i have seen your screen warning previously and have it noted. 

 

I have ridgard seat and have already lowered them as much as possible whilst retaining the fore and aft sliders so Suzie can reach the peddles. 

I need to get out to the garage and make a start. The first big step is starting the job. 

H

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1st update

it appears my car may have had a hardtop in a previous life as there are bracket holes in the top windscreen rail. 

 

It also appears that the hardtop has a minor dent at the front right as it meets the screen frame. This may have closed up the hardtop radius. 

See here

 

What is the fix ?

Edited by Hamish
Sp

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2nd update

i have removed the top windscreen seal as well as the hardtop  front seal. 

Fitted the top windscreen brackets. And fitted the hard top to the screen. And the gaps seem even. 

However the hardtop is resting on the roll bar on the right. This is just on the curve of the hardtop above the rear window. 

The rear hardtop brackets are sitting just above the vinyl roll top. I have used cable ties to tension the rear of the hardtop  down on the hardtop using the brackets and harness bar and it feels like the hardtop is flexing around the top of the roll bar. 

Yet the hardtop should fit over the roll bar. The roll bar doesn’t seem to be in the wrong place and it’s fitted evenly. 

I have had a electronic angle measure on the windscreen supports and they are even. They are the screw in type not on the dutz plates. 

Great advice from Iain has pointed me to use the side screens  as a guide. 

Sort of loosing enthusiasm for this now. :(

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Hi Hamish.

I am convincing myself that the screen is the problem

Looking at your photos of the interior rear mounting bracket it needs to come forward to mount onto its partner bridge under the trim, when you fit it. To achieve this the front of the hardtop will need lifting and pulling forward. This will result in the HT being over the screen top rail. The screen will then need adjusting.  Do the screw fix windscreens have any adjustment to allow this. That is to push the top edge of the screen forward?

iain

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30 minutes ago, iain said:

  Do the screw fix windscreens have any adjustment to allow this. That is to push the top edge of the screen forward?

iain

Hi

i loosened off the 4 windscreen stanchion bolts and there was some fore and aft movement. I also put a straight edge on the stanchions and they seem ok  where do they bend when abused ?

But - I have some questions 

The hardtop rear bottom edge seal that I have I don’t recognise from the usual  parts ID. Plates. It’s a 4.5cm flat rubber. 

That fits on the bottom of the hardtop that is just the vertical hardtop metal edge. 

I don’t think this seal is right.

so how does the bottom of the hardtop sit on the car ?

can you keep the hood/tonneau “pillars” pins and fit the hardtop  ?

thanks  

h

 

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Edited by Hamish
Detail

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Hamish,

I'm certainly not an expert on hardtop fitting at all, but do not each of the rear 5 brackets have an

attachment screw (hidden under the headlining) that will allow the hardtop some vertical adjustment

if loosened?

The rear bottom rubber is not an OEM one.

Roger M_E

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1 minute ago, roger murray-evans said:

Hamish,

I'm certainly not an expert on hardtop fitting at all, but do not each of the rear 5 brackets have an

attachment screw (hidden under the headlining) that will allow the hardtop some vertical adjustment

if loosened?

The rear bottom rubber is not an OEM one.

Roger M_E

Roger that is on my list to investigate. 

But I think the bottom edge of the hardtop will already be a long way off the rear deck I wonder if this is the reason for the strange “deep” seal rubber ?!

do the soft top /tonneau pins remain ?

should the hardtop sit on the rear deck ? ( not sure on this if the rear brackets are adjustable for lift ?)

Thanks

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The soft top lift the dots have receiver holes on the inside edge of the Ht...probably covered with trim.

This rear seal is an after thought........ the actual rear seal is normally proud of the rear deck. See wsm.

Have you read the chapter in the WSM re hardtop fitting? It’s does show alot of detail. Check it out in the members section.

Iain

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The lower seal is not the correct one for a start and yes the brackets fitted to the hardtop are adjustable where they are screwed to the hardtop. The tonneau/hood lift the dot pins when fitted with the hardtop should be the shorter ones which are only available now from TRF in the USA. Is the roll bar fitted over the trim on the wheel arches and is it fitted with any pads between it and the body? If you read the Moss catalogues description of fitting the hardtop  then you will understand its never going to be easy

Stuart.

 

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The Triumph TR2 manual Part Number 502602 gives detailed instructions on how to fit a hard top. You must start with the windscreen in the right place and hope that this does not compromise your side screen fit.

Good Luck,

Dick.

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Thanks Stuart / Dick

the roll bar is fitted direct to the inner wheel arches direct not on pads or on the vinyl. 

I have read the moss catalog and the wsm and I am convinced that without the roll bar it would be fine. 

I am also confident that the roll bar  will be correctly made. 

The hard top rests on the rollbar before the hardtop brackets get to the capping and way before the hard top bottom edge reaches the car. 

I need to think it through more. 

Really don’t want to take the roll bar off to see if the hard top fits. 

I need them to fit together and I’m not cutting the roll bar. 

H

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Further update - sidescreens 

ok so now I’m convinced it’s the roll bar. 

In These pics the hardtop is fitted to the top windscreen without hardtop to windscreen seals. 

The rear is pulled down using cable ties. 

The hardtop is resting on the roll bar close to hardtop rear window. 

The side screens are fitted and line up well with windscreen stanchions. 

I have a considerable gap between sidescreens and hardtop. 

Very disappointed person :(

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Well not necessarily so as your left hand sidescreen doesnt fit well to the screen by the looks of it, does look as if it could come up more to the rear to get it line up better with the screen. I also dont see anywhere in Revingtons catalogue where it says their bars will fit with hardtop only that they will fit with a hood.

Stuart.

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Hi and thank you all  but Stuart and Iain need a special mention  

i must admit that as I haven’t used the sidescreens since I bought the car in 2016 I thought the fit wasn’t too bad. 

But conversly I have probably done more miles  without the windscreen. And it’s been off many times for racing. 

 

I have an an email from Revington’s “I thank you for your enquiry. Yes the roll over bar will fit under a hardtop. If we can help further please let me know?”

that was my first port of call. 

I am taking the weekend as R and R then I am going to try again.

Thank you Iain for the chat(s) and keeping me sane. I have a further plan of action to try next week. I can see it’s going to be a combination of lots of things !!!!

H

Edited by Hamish
Sp

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Only had 10 mins in the garage today. ( slightly distracted from getting an Allen  key and spanner to  stop a wobbly chair!!)

 

i unpicked an edge of the hard top lining to have a look and revealed the sprung bracing bars. 

A quick peak here  

 

 

 

I’ll have my work cut out finding a sewing machine and how it works later on !!

 

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Hi Hamish. Interesting....I don’t think that’s an original headlining. I haven’t t come across one with those bars or with the panelled lining itself.The slot you exposed on both return panels at the B post junction is for the cantrail returns to lock into. Across the front of the hardtop you have revealed all the original screw holes for the rubber seal attachment. Size 4 with cup washers if I remember correctly. I will post those extra photos if it’s dry tomorrow.....been a busy Christmas with Father still in hospital. 

Cheers

Iain

 

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14 hours ago, iain said:

Hi Hamish. Interesting....I don’t think that’s an original headlining. I haven’t t come across one with those bars or with the panelled lining itself.The slot you exposed on both return panels at the B post junction is for the cantrail returns to lock into. Across the front of the hardtop you have revealed all the original screw holes for the rubber seal attachment. Size 4 with cup washers if I remember correctly. I will post those extra photos if it’s dry tomorrow.....been a busy Christmas with Father still in hospital. 

Cheers

Iain

 

PM sent

h

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They look like Surrey hardtop cantrail bars been screwed in, definitely non original.

Stuart.

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I don’t think I will be going for any originality awards with the hardtop. 

It will be going on my 3a after all. 

So long as I can make it safe, useable and presentable I’ll be happy. 

It’s a bit of a project and we all like a project. 

H

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Another update. 

I have taken the seats out to facilitate the removal of the roll bar to allow its repositioning. 

I don’t weld so I need to wait for others availability to weld up the existing roll bar mounting holes so I can refit properly. 

Rather than hang about I removed the hood sticks and the capping that goes around the top of the body. This revealed that the hardtop bracket fitting holes were still in place. As the details I have on the car is that it came with a hardtop from new. 

So now I have the screen brackets loosely fitted. Together with the 5 side and rear beckets loosely fitted with the cappings on top. I had to make a couple of plates and tap threads. I new experience for me. 

Fitting the rear brackets was hampered as I have a fire wall fitted and sealed with a heat resistant sealant. So I had to go in via the boot over the fuel tank. I got a bit creative using wire to hold the brackets in place until I had one screw on each bracket started on the fixing plate. I then pulled the wire through and fitted the second screw on each bracket as I couldn’t reach through and locate the screw with the arched bracket on my own. 

I have yet to offer up the hardtop to see it it all lined up as this needs 2 people. 

I now need to source the hardtop bottom trim and the 5 top of capping brackets.  

Phone video update here 

 

Edited by Hamish

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H if you need a hand give me a ring, I am in most days. See you at the meeting Sunday if you are going.   

Mike. Redrose group 

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Hi Hamish

some measurements and photos that I hope will help in locating your Revington Roll bar. Mine has the removable diagonal.

Cheers

Iain

 

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Edited by iain
Additional detail

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19 minutes ago, iain said:

Iain

that's great thank you

 

just searching eBay for the hardtop bottom trim not sure how big the seal tube part needs to be. 

There are tr  car suppliers out there but it’s £50+

or useful for trial fitting eBay at less than £8 

Medium Car Door Boot Bonnet Rubber Edging Trim Seal Pad Protection 17mm - 12mm https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F222394649502

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