Engine rebuild requirements

[warwickgt]

Good evening all. I need to have an engine rebuilt. What questions would you ask prospective companies who I might contact to carry out the work, to help me understand what they will do in a rebuild and so I can gain confidence in a there work and me a good engine. I am not looking for any power increase just a well executed reliable engine to last the car another fifty years. 

Regards

[RogerH]

Where abouts are you?

 

This is what I would do -

Find a shop that rebuilds these engines on a regular basis.

have the block pickled clean to get rid of all internal rust.

Crack check the crank (No.4 big-end to web journal)

crack check the head (valve seat to valve seat cracking.)

Does the block and head need skimming to make flat

What cam are you fitting. The standard cams are not too good quality wise. The Newman PH1 (good quality)  works well but not silly.

The standard County pistons work well and are cheap.

I'm sure there are many many more tips to follow

Fit standard valve springs in the head - nothing uprated.

 

A well built 4 pot is almist indestructible.

 

Roger.

Edited December 9, 2018 by RogerH

[warwickgt]

Thanks for this reply.  In Milton Keynes area. Also just to add maybe I should have put in first post it is my 1600 vitesse engine that needs doing. So a six pot. Sure all comments will apply wether TR or other Standard engine 

[Andy Moltu]

18 hours ago, RogerH said:

Where abouts are you?

 

This is what I would do -

Find a shop that rebuilds these engines on a regular basis.

have the block pickled clean to get rid of all internal rust.

Crack check the crank (No.4 big-end to web journal)

crack check the head (valve seat to valve seat cracking.)

Does the block and head need skimming to make flat

What cam are you fitting. The standard cams are not too good quality wise. The Newman PH1 (good quality)  works well but not silly.

The standard County pistons work well and are cheap.

I'm sure there are many many more tips to follow

Fit standard valve springs in the head - nothing uprated.

 

A well built 4 pot is almist indestructible.

 

Roger.

I'd add a lightened flywheel to this. As Roger mentioned the crank can crack and the theory is that the monstrously heavy flywheel hanging off the end of the crank is a factor in this. At worst it will rev more freely and likely extend the life of your crank.

[Waldi]

Once you have decided where to bring your engine, best way is to have it disassembled and cleaned and then visit the shop for an inspection and discuss the required work and parts needed. Only then the scope of work and final pricing can be agreed, but you can ask for the cost of a “standard revision” upfront (but ask what is included in that and equally important: what is not)

The red book “how to restore a Triumph TR6” from Roger Williams provides more insight and will give you a better idea what to look for, although this is for the 2.5 litre.

Regards,

Waldi

 

[Motorsport Mickey]

36 minutes ago, Andy Moltu said:

I'd add a lightened flywheel to this. As Roger mentioned the crank can crack and the theory is that the monstrously heavy flywheel hanging off the end of the crank is a factor in this. At worst it will rev more freely and likely extend the life of your crank.

Andy,

Does this still apply to a 1600 Vitesse engine ? the original poster snookered Roger by slipping that qualification in afterwards, the Warwick posting fooling all into thinking a 4 pot was talked about.

Mick Richards

[Andy Moltu]

Not sure about the Vitesse 4 pot as that's different beast but within reason lightening the flywheel helps it to rev freely.

[Richard71]

1 hour ago, Andy Moltu said:

Not sure about the Vitesse 4 pot as that's different beast but within reason lightening the flywheel helps it to rev freely.

I've heard that the early TR5/6 flywheel (long back crank) is a perfect weight as is without lightening, it's the later flywheel that benefits from a skim.

Can anyone confirm this from experience? I have a lightweight steel flywheel on my CP TR6, I have a feeling it's a little too light.

Richard.

[warwickgt]

Thanks for this reply.  In Milton Keynes area. Also just to add maybe I should have put in first post it is my 1600 vitesse engine that needs doing. So a six pot. Sure all comments will apply wether TR or other Standard engine 

 

[warwickgt]

Need to point out the vitesse 6  as my car is, is a straight six cylinder 1600cc engine.  With twin Stromberg s. Thanks for bits of info so far. But no one so far as really answered my question. How do I quiz a  prosective builder to work out if they are any good. Thanks

[Motorsport Mickey]

3 minutes ago, warwickgt said:

Need to point out the vitesse 6  as my car is, is a straight six cylinder 1600cc engine.  With twin Stromberg s. Thanks for bits of info so far. But no one so far as really answered my question. How do I quiz a  prosective builder to work out if they are any good. Thanks

We need to know what experience of engine rebuilds and engineering practice you have yourself unknown Warwick owner. So much will depend upon what the workshop thinks you understand as to how they will couch their responses.

We can tell YOU how to build the engines but you are asking us to diffuse a psychometric test for unknown peoples and workshops and be able to tell from their response to your reimagining's of our questions whether they are qualified to build you an engine.

What do you know about them yourself ?  without us straying into patronising territory do you know what piston ring end gaps are ? the necessity to control crankshaft end float, the difference that using a thinner head gasket will have on the compression you wish to run, what compression do you wish to run ? Give us a clue so we can build up an idea of how you can define what a workshop can do for you.

Mick Richards

[warwickgt]

  I wish I never asked. I thought I might get a list of points to ask or things to check. All I have got is pysicobable. And not reading my question. I only want a well built reliable, to standard specification engine No super duper flywheels, compressions of the head, crank end float. (I would hope a decent workshop would deal with that or at least explain the measurement of mine and how in or out of spec it is and how they would deal with it) makes of pistons.

I think I now have found my answer in the workshop manual. It tells you about an engine rebuild so I will use to bench mark. 

Thanks all for trying. Think you all a bit to behind the norm for me. 

[Motorsport Mickey]

..

Edited December 13, 2018 by Motorsport Mickey

[Lebro]

Warwick gt.

They were only trying to make sure you get the best possible result, there are a number of details you need to get right when building these engines if you want them to last a long time, & be pleasant to use (no vibration etc).

Bob.   (mine will need doing in the next few years, & I will take all the advice I can get from these guys)

Edited December 14, 2018 by Lebro

[Waldi]

9 hours ago, warwickgt said:

  I wish I never asked. I thought I might get a list of points to ask or things to check. All I have got is pysicobable. And not reading my question. I only want a well built reliable, to standard specification engine No super duper flywheels, compressions of the head, crank end float. (I would hope a decent workshop would deal with that or at least explain the measurement of mine and how in or out of spec it is and how they would deal with it) makes of pistons.

I think I now have found my answer in the workshop manual. It tells you about an engine rebuild so I will use to bench mark. 

Thanks all for trying. Think you all a bit to behind the norm for me. 

Thank you for that and all the best with the rebuild.

Waldi

[Ian Vincent]

Hi Warwick GT,

As an ex manager of engineering facilities, here are a couple of hints:

1. check around any prospective engineering shop’s facilities. Are they clean and tidy and businesslike and not just because they have no work. 
2. Ask when they last rebuilt an engine like yours. 
3. Ask for references and then check those references out. 
4. Not a showstopper but check if they have any QA accreditation. 

Does that help?

rgds Ian

[monty]

Located in Milton Keynes, go north to TR Enterprises or east to TRGB!

[foster461]

My only experience is with the TR6 and the TR3 engines. Both of these have some quirks that that the prospective builder needs to be aware of. The TR3 wet liner more so than he TR6 but even the flat tappets in the TR6 is enough to confuse someone who is not familiar with them.

If I was doing the rebuild and just wanted the block cleaned and leveled, the crank and head crack tested and cleaned out I would use any capable machine shop but if I wanted them to rebuild the motor I would want to know how many engines like mine they had rebuilt and follow up on the references.

Stan

[warwickgt]

  I wish I never asked. I thought I might get a list of points to ask or things to check. All I have got is pysicobable. And not reading my question. I only want a well built reliable, to standard specification engine No super duper flywheels, compressions of the head, crank end float. (I would hope a decent workshop would deal with that or at least explain the measurement of mine and how in or out of spec it is and how they would deal with it) makes of pistons.

I think I now have found my answer in the workshop manual. It tells you about an engine rebuild so I will use to bench mark. 

Thanks all for trying. Think you all a bit to behind the norm for me. 

[warwickgt]

Thanks for that. 

[Hamish]

36 minutes ago, warwickgt said:

  I wish I never asked. I thought I might get a list of points to ask or things to check. All I have got is pysicobable. And not reading my question. I only want a well built reliable, to standard specification engine No super duper flywheels, compressions of the head, crank end float. (I would hope a decent workshop would deal with that or at least explain the measurement of mine and how in or out of spec it is and how they would deal with it) makes of pistons.

I think I now have found my answer in the workshop manual. It tells you about an engine rebuild so I will use to bench mark. 

Thanks all for trying. Think you all a bit to behind the norm for me. 

That must be a record to get to this point in just 12 posts

[peejay4A]

I’m not sure what to make of the OP’s final sentence but it comes across as a bit rude. Please tell me I’m wrong and I’ll withdraw. 

[Motorsport Mickey]

18 minutes ago, peejay4A said:

I’m not sure what to make of the OP’s final sentence but it comes across as a bit rude. Please tell me I’m wrong and I’ll withdraw. 

No point in trying to sort this out, the tale is told if the posts are read from the #1 and then after Rogers comprehensive and helpful post in #2 the bar is not only lifted but chucked into a field by #3 post ( I really wish we still had numbered posts).

" Also just to add maybe I should have put in first post it is my 1600 vitesse engine that needs doing. "

which puts everybody onto the back foot trying to advise on engines we are not familiar with. The posters request for questions to ask an unknown garage or workshop so the poster can judge whether or not that garage is suitable, is fraught without knowing if the poster has the technical knowledge to decipher what he is told.

I tried to ask and screwed it up by upsetting him so he thought we/I was trying to take a rise out of him, (not intended) and Ian's and Stan's offering's of more generic questions seem to be the best that can be offered that may help. I've retired from the field before I unintentionally stuff it up any more.

Mick Richards  

[monty]

Give up Mick, you did your best!

[Fireman049]

You can only do your best Mick ~

Tom.