Piejun Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 Hello I am writing from Luxembourg and have following questions: The TR4 I bought built 30/06/1964 has commission number CT14457L and gearbox number TS 1875. The car is now on positive earth. I have some concerns but are not sure if I am right Looking at the restoration photos I noticed the car had US number plates and, correct me if I am wrong, normally US cars had neg earth (?) (minor problem) The gear box number seems to indicate it is a TR3 box (It has a straight gear lever). However the starter motor is a late one and bolt on tooth ring. Following are my questions am I partly right concerning my assumptions? Does it matter if it has a TR3 gear box? Can I replace the straight gear lever with the TR4 one? Would somebody be so kind and give me some help? Thank you so much. Pierre Jungblut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) Hi Pierre ~ My 3A is fitted with a four synchro. gearbox and a straight lever. I think the box came from a 4A and fitted by the previous owner. I think that you can easily fit the TR4 cranked gearlever (Moss part No. 131507 (TR4) or 143624 (TR4A). Both these levers are listed as 'Not Currently Available' by Moss but contact them to see is they are now in stock. Also try TR Bitz and TR Shop who may have good second-hand levers. Best regards ~ Tom. Edited November 17, 2018 by Fireman049 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NickKerfoot Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 Hi! CT 14457 would suggest a late 1962 built car. The box will be a 3 synchro version as well... has the area where the starter motor protrudes into the gearbox been modified? (A hole cut for the starter bendix to poke through...). Does it have an overdrive fitted? The car would most likely be +ve earth from new...( I’ll stand corrected here lol). I suggest wire it up to your preference.... there’s no difference in the looms, just the polarity of the dynamo, and the orientation of the ammeter connections... and any radio or aftermarket accessories that maybe polarity sensitive of course! regards Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 CT 14457 would be a 1962 TR4, approx build date September. TS 1875 on the gearbox would be from an early 1954 TR2 with syncro on 2, 3 and 4 only. TR4s have all syncro gearboxes from the start of production, also +ve earth. Not sure when that was changed - may well have been for the TR4A. To explain the "cut hole", TR2/3/3A (up to TS 50,000) starter motors engaged from the front of the gearbox and did not project far into the gearbox casing. The later TR3As (post 50,001) and TR4 engaged from the rear, therefore projected further into the gearbox. Back in the day, if you wanted to fit a later started motor to an earlier box, you could hacksaw off part of the gearbox casing to allow the starter motor to fit, then probably fix a shaped metal can with self tappers to cover the hole. Messy, but it worked. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) TS 1875 would be Tr2.....its a very early box Edited November 17, 2018 by iain Mine and Alans reply's crossed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Piejun Posted November 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 Dear all Many thanks for your comments which arrived so quickly. Happy to be part of your Register. Thanks again Pierre. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 Easy to tell whether it is a TR4 gearbox (synchromesh on all forward gears) or TR2/3 gearbox (no synchro on 1st gear). Try to engage 1st gear whilst travelling at about 15 mph (23 kph) - if there's some resistance as the lever is pushed forward, but the gears engage silently, it's a TR4 box. If there's clanging from the gearbox, then don't use 1st gear when the car is in motion unless you know how to double de-clutch. Pete Cox told me some years ago that replacements for 1st gear are expensive, so one should use 1st gear on a TR2/3 box only when moving from stationary. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 Hi Piejun, As with other replies, the serial numbers don't look right. My TR4 was built on 10th July with gearbox serial No CT365** and Commission No CT352**. Commission number is correct by Heritage Certificate. Best wishes Willie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Willie said: Hi Piejun, As with other replies, the serial numbers don't look right. My TR4 was built on 10th July with gearbox serial No CT365** and Commission No CT352**. Commission number is correct by Heritage Certificate. Best wishes Willie Willie, Those numbers are very interesting, in that they are consistent with each other yet out of sync with typical numbers/build dates. So, out of interest, does your car have any of the earlier TR4 features (pre-4229 I think) like short bulge bonnet? Looks to me as if it's an early 1962 build that was delayed being recorded until July for some reason. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 Thanks for your response Alan. I keep reading about how some blocks of numbers get used away from TR production. I see people advertising cars as "matching numbers" buuut I suspect they mean "original numbers", perhaps? If of interest, my full suite of numbers is as follows - with last 2 digits shown as x. Car is original RHD non-overdrive. Commission CT 352xx; Body in trim CT 355xx; Gbx CT 365xx; Diff BT 351xx [3.7:1] Engine CT 355xx E; and the one no-one seems to understand - "Body in white" 470xx. I haven't exposed the full plate in the NSR wheel arch, but there doesn't seem to be any letter pre-or suffix. I have no reason to believe any of them are not original. The BMIHT Cert gives the Comm & Body Trim numbers and they are 349 numbers apart! I feell sure diff is also original as it doesn't have a drain plug. After corresp on the Forum way back my theory is that as the car is only 6 months from TR4A production, the casings for live axle 4A's were used - this is backed up by the fact the diff number is stamped on the casing not on the top of the cover flange. The joys and mysteries of owning TRs!! Best wishes John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 Forgot to mention - 10/7/1964 is the build date Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steven Newell Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 Specifically to positive/negative ground and early TR4 features from an American perspective: While American cars were generally negative ground in the 60's, U.S.-bound TR4's were positive ground. My early TR4 (CT5018LO) delivered new to Houston was positive ground. The official change-over to negative ground came a few years ago when my old positive-ground Pertronix gadget failed and I ordered a negative-ground one without thinking. Conversion is very easy: disconnect and lift the battery, push the car out of the garage and turn it around, push the car back into the garage, lower the battery, repolarize the generator. To TR 2100, the early TR4's had a performance bonnet with a shorter bubble which added 5-10 hp and a higher top speed. Revington says the short bubble lasted till CT6429. Although the longer bubble was likely introduced to slow TR's to MG speeds, some have argued that Americans like to slam their hoods (bonnets) and the shorter bubbles tended to bend or distort at the corner. Other extra special features of early TR4's like the long neck TR3 radiator were officially upgraded following a policy of "using up all the leftover TR3 parts". Steven / Littleton, Colorado USA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 Willie, My mistake. I read your CT 352xx as CT 352x so ignore my comments. Steven, That's the first time I have heard the early short bulge bonnet described as a "performance bonnet" or seen any claim that it either enhanced performance or was later modified to reduce performance to MG speeds. Someone making up stories, methinks. Although my reference to "early features" is not relevant to Willie's car, I was not thinking of the radiator. I was thinking of the boot stay rod, chromed rear cockpit capping and lack of rear boot lid badge. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, Steven Newell said: disconnect and lift the battery, push the car out of the garage and turn it around, push the car back into the garage, lower the battery, I'm sure there must be an easier way... Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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