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Surrey top fixing hooks


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Firstly, Hello to you all from a new member.

I have wanted a TR4 for many years and I normally acquire "project" cars and restore them myself.  I have acquired a TR4, that's been (sort of) restored by the previous owner, in fairness, it's not too bad but it is missing a few bits and pieces here and there and requires some finishing touches.

I can source the parts I require and I can fit them except the retaining hooks for the Surrey top because I don't know where they go. Could someone please direct me to photos/drawings of the position, along with some measurements as I can't find any witness holes in the A or B pillars.

Many thanks

David

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1618584832_Fixinghook.jpg.2397d3263e6ee4f9a8905e4bdb941d66.jpg

1015201923_Fixingstud2.thumb.jpg.b6ca2f6ce5e753aab037606e7affdd84.jpg

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Hope these photos help.

The hook for the surrey top (or hood) was welded on, position
not all that critical as the other hook is attached to an elastic
strip.

The connector on the rear frame was a self-tapper.

AlanR

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When I worked for Moss I used to make these items from wiring loom tags.  Simple task with a pair of pliers.

Moss now list the item (612453) as  NCA 

Maybe you should buy a few 603559 loom tags and bend/cut to the size you require.  

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/tag-wiring-loom-603559.html

 

Cheers

Peter W

PS Maybe I could get a SDF loan to 'create' them as a new line the 4-5 owners are after?

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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1 hour ago, saggy said:

Thanks TR2100.

Would you say that yours are in the original position?

Yes - only one owner (1962-70) before me, well documented
and very original.
I took many photos of the car before restoration - too many
to post here but I can send you copies if you PM me with
your email address.

AlanR

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Many thanks AlanR for the photos etc, thanks also to others whom replied. Thanks also for the links but I have already made the hooks in stainless steel using the photo on a parts supplier's website and will fit them tomorrow. 

Even with the hooks engaged, it doesn't seem that this top will be completely rainproof, especially where is crosses the top of the A pillar and also where it meets (or doesn't very well, in my case) the top of the door glass.

David

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On 11/17/2018 at 5:46 PM, Ukmax said:

Many thanks AlanR for the photos etc, thanks also to others whom replied. Thanks also for the links but I have already made the hooks in stainless steel using the photo on a parts supplier's website and will fit them tomorrow. 

Even with the hooks engaged, it doesn't seem that this top will be completely rainproof, especially where is crosses the top of the A pillar and also where it meets (or doesn't very well, in my case) the top of the door glass.

David

In that case you need to adjust your door glasses to fit and maybe tighten up the elastic on the side drop sections of the soft section so they are held tight against the inside of the windows.

Stuart.

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Thank you Stuart. I'll look at glass adjustment, I have to strip the doors anyway because the passenger door can't be opened from outside and the drivers window winder is catching on something.

Even though the hood is fully engaged along the top of the front screen, I can see daylight between the top of the A pillar and the hood, is this normal?  It seems to me that the hood should have a small lip that overlaps the top edge of the A pillar. 

David

Edited by Ukmax
corrected typo
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Do you have enough at each end of the front to fit the popper on the end of the capping? There should be an excess of material beyond that that should cover the top of the "A" post.

Stuart.

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Ah, it's becoming clearer now.  

I've just looked at a parts diagram and note there should be a "popper" on each end of the capping but these are not present on my car and neither is there a corresponding part on the surrey top. I have referred back to the pictures kindly posted by AlanR and I can't see a popper on his capping either, unless it is on the front edge not shown in the picture.

It seems that the previous owner of my car had a new surrey top made and the maker was unaware that a popper had to be included on the front corners, probably because the male part was not fitted on the car - see attached picture

Am I correct in presuming the original top was vinyl (which mine isn't)?  and if so, I will probably have a new top made to be more in keeping with the original.

David

IMG_2974.jpg

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15 hours ago, Ukmax said:

Ah, it's becoming clearer now.  

I've just looked at a parts diagram and note there should be a "popper" on each end of the capping but these are not present on my car and neither is there a corresponding part on the surrey top. I have referred back to the pictures kindly posted by AlanR and I can't see a popper on his capping either, unless it is on the front edge not shown in the picture.

It seems that the previous owner of my car had a new surrey top made and the maker was unaware that a popper had to be included on the front corners, probably because the male part was not fitted on the car - see attached picture

Am I correct in presuming the original top was vinyl (which mine isn't)?  and if so, I will probably have a new top made to be more in keeping with the original.

David

IMG_2974.jpg

Wow no wonder your getting draughts/rain in thats not even close to being right, whoever made that hadnt got a clue what a real one looked like!

Your going to need a capping as well as thats not correct either though if you get a chance to find an original one they are better than the repros.

Stuart.

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Hello Keith,

I'm about 2 miles from  Stourport-on-Severn.

David

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David

A bit of a way from me near Evesham. I was going to suggest you look at my 4A.

Just looked at my 4A. Originally it had a soft top and the soft top didn't seem to have the poppers to fit to the A post.  Maybe yours was originally a soft top and a previous owner has half modified it for a surrey top. The original capping strip for the soft top (which I still have in my garage) has no hole for the popper. The capping strip for the surrey top is a bit wider and has the popper riveted through it to the A post as in AlanR's post above. Whether you can fit a popper through the existing soft surrey top to fasten it to one on the A post looks debatable but suggest you get the correct surrey capping strip first and fix the A post popper. You will then be able to see how the soft top fits at the edges. Note that after fitting a new surrey capping strip you will need to make sure that the front edge of the capping is opened up enough so that the front of the soft top fits snugly underneath. I'll try to get some photos to post here.

Keith

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Thank you AlanR,  now  I know where the popper should be.

Stuart, Thank you for the further information. I shall have a new top made in vinyl but in the meantime my trimmer will be able to modify/extend the corner of the existing one to include a popper. However, from what you say and now Keith also says, it seems that I also have the wrong capping.

I have only ever bought "project cars" and restored them myself. For a particular reason, I really wanted a TR4 for a rally next Summer, so this is the first classic car I have bought that has been "restored" by someone else.  Methinks,  I should have stuck to my normal routine!  Whilst this is not a catastrophe, it is a bit of a pain and makes me wonder what other "mistakes" may lurk, yet to be discovered.

From the help I have received from the forum's members so far, I'm sure that I will receive enough advice to enable me to get this car up spec should other problems arise - and I have a feeling they will!.

David

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50 minutes ago, keith1948 said:

David

A bit of a way from me near Evesham. I was going to suggest you look at my 4A.

Just looked at my 4A. Originally it had a soft top and the soft top didn't seem to have the poppers to fit to the A post.  Maybe yours was originally a soft top and a previous owner has half modified it for a surrey top. The original capping strip for the soft top (which I still have in my garage) has no hole for the popper. The capping strip for the surrey top is a bit wider and has the popper riveted through it to the A post as in AlanR's post above. Whether you can fit a popper through the existing soft surrey top to fasten it to one on the A post looks debatable but suggest you get the correct surrey capping strip first and fix the A post popper. You will then be able to see how the soft top fits at the edges. Note that after fitting a new surrey capping strip you will need to make sure that the front edge of the capping is opened up enough so that the front of the soft top fits snugly underneath. I'll try to get some photos to post here.

Keith

Thank you for your further input and I may well take you up on your suggestion, I travel to Broadway fairly often, so it is not a particularly arduous journey from me to you and I'm sure it will be well worth the trip if needs be.

In the meantime, I look forward to seeing the photos which I'm sure will be a great help

David

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Some photos

First one shows Surrey top capping on right which is wider than standard capping on left.

Second shows Surrey capping popper. On top of hood is original capping which you can see is a different shape.

Third shows B post hook riveted onto rear surrey frame

Fourth shows front hook riveted onto A post

Fifth photo shows front A post popper and tape measure to give you an idea where it fits

Hope these help

P9290721.JPG

PB220730.JPG

PB220732.JPG

PB220733.JPG

PB220731.JPG

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Keith, Thank you for the photos which are most helpful, especially as you also included hook positions and the tape measure.

I'm not at home at the moment so I can't look at my car but looking at the photo I posted, my capping looks very similar to that fitted to your car, except the end has not been formed around the A pillar and riveted with the popper male half. My surrey top fits well under the lip on the capping and I have previously driven the car at up to 60mph or so without the surrey top blowing off, even with the poppers missing. 

I'll have another look at my capping when I'm home tomorrow and compare it with your first picture and it would help if you let me have the capping's actual width measurement in the centre.

Thanks again

David

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David

Just measured the width of the 2 capping strips at the centre point. The measurements are from the vertical lip at the back to the front of the capping lip at the front.

The non-surrey capping is 2-1/4 inch or 58mm wide

The surrey capping is 3 inch or 75mm.

The rivets holding the hooks on are quite small. Best type would be those you can flatten each side. You could use the type that screw together (Chicago rivets) using a bit of thread lock to stop them coming apart.

Keith

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Thanks yet again Keith, I'll measure my capping tomorrow.

I noticed that the rivets were rather small but I do have some small diameter but long bifurcated aluminium rivets, I can cut the "prongs" off these and there will still be sufficient left to flatten and make a tight joint.

David

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Hi David,

For clarification all TR4’s were produced fitted with the “wider” windscreen capping, which at each end  had an enlarged area to allow the fitment of a hood popper secured by a single pop rivet, as photo below :

 

This same capping was use for the Convertible and Surrey Top models as both cars had the same soft top front fixing “tuck under” method.

The “narrow” windscreen capping is only for the Convertible TR4A as the hood has mechanical clamps which secures it down to the top of the windscreen frame.

All Surrey Top TR4A’s, TR5’s and TR250’s were fitted with the TR4 type capping.

The reproduction wider capping are not produced with the original bulged ends, thus it is easy to miss the need for this hood popper and difficult to install due to the lack of material.

Regards, Richard

 P.S.

You have a PM – hit the envelope in the top right of your screen.

 

A.jpg

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