Jump to content

Electrical Starter Gremlins ...


Recommended Posts

So installed the new dash and wired up all the gauges.  Went to start the car and not a click, nothing.  When the key is ON, the gauges do engage.  I converted to negative ground a while back and haven't had any real issues prior to it sitting for a while during the wheel/hub fiasco.  But I did have an incident wherein the battery looked like the top of Mt. Hood after sitting few a couple of months.  After cleaning it up, I noticed the positive terminal seemed to have "pushed" itself up out of the plastic housing of the battery (never seen that before),  and I am guessing the hydrogen was likely venting causing the massive snow cap.  So, new battery went in.

Currently the positive from the battery runs to the old bump solenoid where on the same terminal there appears to be two brown wires, then a cable from that same terminal to the starter.  There is a screw on the solenoid at the bottom of the starter motor where a white with red stripe wire is attached and that runs to the ignition switch (position 3).  

Is there a way with the wire configuration to bump start the starter to see if it is in fact the starter, or possibly the wire from the number 3 terminal on the ignition to the solenoid on the starter that's gone bad?  In the old days with just the starter solenoid I could simply short out the posts with a screw driver to get it crank, but with the wiring running through the old bump solenoid, I am not sure if this can be accomplished?  I'm just trying to better isolate what the heck is going on.

Voltage Summary:

Battery - 12.5v

Brown/blue wires at switch 12.5v

White wires at switch with key on 12.5v

Number 3 terminal (white with red stripe) to starter with key on cranking 12.5v

White with red stripe at starter with key on cranking 8.3v?

Suggestions?  It's just odd it just "stopped" working all together suddenly.  

 

Don

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the one on the fire wall - that's why I called it a bump solenoid - you can press it and in theory bump the motor around.  That said the way it's wired currently, it does not work as it is really only serving as a junction post for the hot wires only.

UPDATE:  I did take the white/red wire off and read it while cranking and it's reading 12.5v, so I my guess it is the starter or solenoid at the starter. It's just odd as there is not any indication it is even attempting to engage.  No hum, no click.  I did put it in 4th gear and rolled the car back and forth thinking it may have been "frozen" but alas, no luck,  still no click when cranking.  Not sure if the new style starters are "hammer" friendly to a few taps on the ball pin hammer like the older ones.

 

Don

Link to post
Share on other sites

So to recap -  you have 12.5v on the red/white wire when disconnected and the key turned.   You have 8.3 v on the same wire when connected to the starter and the key turned.

That means either the starter solenoid is taking quite a lot of current (and the red/white wire may be getting hot as a consequence) or else you have a poor connection in that line somewhere which is 'dropping' the voltage before it gets to the starter in which case 8.3v may not be sufficient to pull in the starter solenoid.

You could check that by making a temporary direct connection from the screw terminal on that solenoid to the battery live terminal in which case the starter should crank if the solenoid an starter are OK. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, just managed to pull the starter.  When grounded to the battery and I make contact with the white red terminal - pinion engages.  When I connect the positive to the main terminal and jump a wire to the pinion, pinion engages and spins, to I think the starter is OK.  Now I got to figure out how to get it back in - it was PITA coming out with the poly lock nut on the top.  Took the bottom out and managed to put some torque on it enough to undo the bolt enough to get it drop.  I have no idea how they got a wrench on it with the tranny/engine in the car.  Any tips or suggestions?  Figure I will get it bolted back and go from there.  

 

Don

Link to post
Share on other sites

So it does look. then. as though the power feed from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid is faulty....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Truly bizarre ... put it all back together and now when I turn the key, I do not even get power to the gauges when key is on position.  I think I may order a new ignition switch.  I tried to measure again to the white/red at the starter, and now there is absolutely nothing on crank.  Previously when I had the switch out and terminal not hooked up I was getting 12.5v while cranking the key.  I jumped a wire from the main lead on the starter to the white/red terminal on the starter and engine cranks over just fine.  Can't figure out why I was getting the switch to seemingly work earlier and now that it's reassembled absolutely nothing, it's going crazy again, as I.

 

Don

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK so you must have a modern starter motor with it's own solenoid. the original solenoid is not used at all, it is just a way of connecting all the wires together.

Agree with Rob, you have a bad connection somewhere between the red/white wire connection at the motor & the brown wire going to ignition switch.

Bob.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, turns out one of the brown/blue wires came off while reinstalling the plinth.  Low and behold - it RUNS!   I am guessing the pinion on the starter was "frozen" for none use over the 6 months the TR was on the rack.  Now to get the carbs dialed in and first road test.

 

Don

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting as i have the same problem at the moment with standard starter and square solenoid .Starts fine if i short between the 2 posts but not with the key, just a click

Link to post
Share on other sites

Duff solenoid then Roy.  The click is the solenoid mechanism operating but obviously there is a bad connection in the high-current contacts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RobH said:

Duff solenoid then Roy.  The click is the solenoid mechanism operating but obviously there is a bad connection in the high-current contacts.

Not uncommon on the hi torque starters that have integrated solenoid either - at least with them you can get the solenoid contact cover off, (4 small screws) clean the copper contacts and disc and re assemble - had to fix this on two hi torque starters now after long vehicle lay up.  Easy to do but fiddly to get round the exhaust. -  lots easier than taking the starter out, even when using a 'crows foot' on an extension from the engine side to get to the nut clamping the fixed bolt undone.

Peter W

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.