Chris59 Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 Hello guys, I'm puzzled : what's the difference between a rear axle with solid spacer pinion drive flange (#138105) and the same part for a collapsible spacer pinion (#160275) ? I've some of the solid spacer models in stock, but none of the second version, so can't compare, unfortunatly. Cheers ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 They are for sure different part numbers. I have the drive flange for a later collapsible spacer style diff on the bench if you would like some dimensions to compare them. It is off my 1974.5 TR6. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Hi Stan, Yes please, it could help ! Eventually, several picture could be of some help too : I don't even know if they are visually different Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) Hi Chris, Moss refer to only one flange - item #35 P/No.160275 https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr5-6/clutch-transmission-drivetrain/axles-differentials/rear-axle-tr5-6.html Gives the impression there is no difference - But!! Roger. Edited November 4, 2018 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Hi Roger, You're right, well spotted, there is only one reference available from Moss : I understand (might be wrong !) that later flange can be retrofitted to early non collapsible spacer pignon, but early flanges can't be used on later model ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 It seems that there is a chamfer in the later flange https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-160275 But a "smaller" one in early flange ? https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-138105 Okay, I know one can't rely on a picture on the Net…. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Some pictures. Let me know what dimensions would be helpful. https://stanfoster.smugmug.com/organize/TR6/Pinion-Flange-late Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Many thanks Stan : could you please mesure the lengh of the part who rotate in the oil seal (sorry, my English is not fantastic, but it's called "portée de joint" in French) ? Your picture confirm that it has a countersink angle. Unfortunatly, I can't check my "shimed" flanges before Tuesday, as they are all in a workshop 30mn drive from here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dingle Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 The TRF catalog shows 2 plates (or pages) for the early (solid spacer) and later collaspsible spacer, but only 1 part #(160275) for the flange. I just measured the length of a shimmed flange seal area, it is .910". The area that the shim contacts is .225" Berry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) Thanks Berry, we now have to find the same length for a "late" flange, Stan could be able to help. Edited November 4, 2018 by Chris59 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 I am measuring the length of the machined section that goes into the seal at .92 inches using a caliper gauge. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Thanks Stan, so the difference is not here I bet the difference is in the chamfered area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Hi Chris, when inserting anything into a lip seal it is wise to have the edge chamfered in order to reduce the chances of damage. The amount of chamfer may not be critical. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Roger, I'm not talking about the "outside" chamfer, but the one in the flange. To be fair, as I can't check if there is one in my "shimed" flanges, as explained earlier, I don't know if they are chamfered (does this word exist ??) or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 chamfered (does this word exist ??) It does now. It is both a verb and a noun. You can past tense a verb - Chamfer / chamfered You can't past tense a Noun except - Roger / Rogered Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hi Chris, This a flange from a solid spacer diff. (TR250) This is from a collapsible spacer 1976 TR6. The collapsible one looks slightly longer in the seal area but I am sorry I don't have any measurements. Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Roger, Roger ! Hello Graeme, many thanks for the pictures, who show that both flanges seems to have the same chamfer, in and out. According to Berry and Stan measurements, the lenght is the same, at .910" vs .911", so no sensible difference ? I'll go back to this workshop tomorrow, and will use a "shimmed" flange on a collapsible spacer diff to see the result. Cheers ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 (#138105) and the same part for a collapsible spacer pinion (#160275) From a parts sales point of view I suspect 138105 was supersceded by 160275 at the factory. I would not have done that part number rationalisation when writing the catalogue otherwise. Part number 160275 is also used in the Moss TR4A IRS axle section. If it is not a proper replacement I think Moss would have had the flanges thrown back at them by now. Thinking about the flange. The diff is still in the same place, the diff case did not change, the propshaft did not change, so we may guess the length of the item is constant. The engineering change may be to do with the known swap from split pinned slotted nut (solid spacer) to nyloc nut (collapsible spacer) bearing adjustment on the pinion. Perhaps with a resultant flange nut recess depth or diameter modification. Or the diameter internally was modified with a stepped recess to accept and align the seldom seen UKC725 shield that is fitted into the flange to cover and seal the nut from oil leakage (lead linger now not being used) The other change was the washer beneath the pinion flange nut - I do dot have samples of that to check. In my years of building diffs I have thought there were only ever square or round drive flanges for TR2-6. Round on IRS axles & square on solid axles. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Thanks for sharing your experience Peter, everything is perfectly clear now ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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