Tr4aJim Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 Ok, this may be the dumbest question asked on this forum, but how are you supposed to fit the front wheel cotter pin in the castellated nut? On all other (American) cars I’ve owned, Ive inserted the pin perpendicular to the nut, so that the loop end of the pin fits down in the notch of the nut, then I bend one pin leg over the face of the threaded end of the spindle, cutting the other leg short. When I use this method on my TR4a, the grease cap goes on fine, but getting the cap off later is a chore. If I try to remove the cap by inserting a screw into the cap hole, the screw is blocked by the bent cotter pin leg. I usually have to destroy the cap to get it off. The other method is to insert the cotter pin parallel with the nut, bending both pin legas around the nut. However in this position, the loop end of the pin is sitting above the castellated nut, so the cap won’t clear it. How do you fit the cotter pin so the cap will fit, and come off without a fight? thanks Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, Tr4aJim said: When I use this method on my TR4a, the grease cap goes on fine, but getting the cap off later is a chore. If I try to remove the cap by inserting a screw into the cap hole, the screw is blocked by the bent cotter pin leg. I usually have to destroy the cap to get it off. Don't use the screw to 'jack' the cap off, screw it in part way then grip the head with pliers and pull the cap off. Or you can use a claw hammer under the screw head. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 Hi Jim, I fit the pin as per your first description and not ha d a problem inserting a screw to remove the cap. You could try inserting the pin as your first option and then pushing the leg sideways so as not to cover the end of the stub axle. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 I was taught to fit split pins as per your first description. I made a small slide hammer with a self tapping type screw attachment to remove the caps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4aJim Posted November 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 Thanks for the quick replies! Using the first method I described, I have attempted to use a slide hammer and several types of screws, but when I attempt to insert a screw, the tip hits the pin leg before it can get a bite on the cap. I will give Rogers suggestion a try and bend the pin leg off center. Then the screw tip should be able to pass far enough into the inset on the spindle to get a bite. BTW, I have been purchasing the caps from the Roadster Factory here in the states. They are obviously repro pieces. Could these repro parts be shallower in depth than the originals, and not giving the clearance above the nut needed for easier removal? Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) Split pins.....First method is British, second method is the American way! Having worked on both American and British aircraft that was in standard practices. Now don’t get me started on wirelocking of turnbuckles on control cables! Edited November 3, 2018 by DaveN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 29 minutes ago, DaveN said: Split pins.....First method is British, second method is the American way! Having worked on both American and British aircraft that was in standard practices. Now don’t get me started on wirelocking of turnbuckles on control cables! Aargh! Arse about face.... and I can’t edit it now! ‘Tis the other way round! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Hi Folks, has anybody considered welding a thin nut on the inside of the cap rather than using a self tapping screw.? Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 I can honestly say that I’ve never considered that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, RogerH said: Hi Folks, has anybody considered welding a thin nut on the inside of the cap rather than using a self tapping screw.? Roger Quite right, Roger, repeated use of a self tapper requires bigger and bigger screws Put a nut on ages ago, but too lazy/ fat fingered, so the nut is on the outside John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, john.r.davies said: Quite right, Roger, repeated use of a self tapper requires bigger and bigger screws Put a nut on ages ago, but too lazy/ fat fingered, so the nut is on the outside John Same way I always do them, been doing that for more years than I care to remember. On my 4a as I dont have the centre caps fitted to the Minilites I can adjust the bearings without taking the wheels off with those fitted to the caps. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 All these years and I never knew what the hole in the end was for ! I have always knocked the caps of in a see saw fashion using a small chisel against the side of the cap. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 I suspect that the hole is originally intended as a vent for the cap, as otherwise heated air inside would force it off! J. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 12 hours ago, DaveN said: Aargh! Arse about face.... and I can’t edit it now! ‘Tis the other way round! What does CAIP BL6/13 Locking devices say? Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Ha! You read my mind. I’ve been rummaging around in the loft looking for my CAIP’s. No luck so far, I’ve even got the later dumbed down CAP books too somewhere. However I did find boxes of all my tech. training notes.... bought back memories! ...And some Comet stuff too (never worked on that except for the apprentice training aircraft.) I wonder if there’s a market for all that stuff....eBay?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Cap BL6/14 is on the web but no pictures Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, RogerH said: Cap BL6/14 is on the web but no pictures Roger Did I get the page reference wrong Roger? My printed set of CAIP are in a fellow catalogue writer's library. I have a pdf copy somewhere on a hard drive. Peter W PS I recall we used to twist split pins through 90 degrees along their length to get the head to fit into the nut slot and the legs were then able to turn sideways and insert into the nut slots 60 degrees either side. Probably on Dowty Rotol propeller hubs or was it Hamilton Standard..... Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Hi Pete, the chapter is correct but no pics to see where the legs end up. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4aJim Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Great idea about welding the nut! However, I’m surprised by Rogers comment of welding the nut on the inside. Do the caps you have available in Britain have enough room inside for a nut to fit between the cap and the spindle? The caps I’ve been using have so little clearance, that you can see the cotter pin leg I’ve bent over the spindle, through the hole in the cap. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 For some 50 years I had been removing the caps in the same fashion as Bob Lerocq, using a cold chisel with a fairly blunt end - and all the TRs which I have owned have evidenced that the previous owners used the same technique as there were always indentations in the metal. However, Tony Sheach introduced me to the idea of using a self-tapping screw and, even with the split pin secured using the British method, it does work, although I do have conerns about the centre hole enlarging when this method is used, so I shall continue to use a blunt cold chisel. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Caps without drill you can't even stick in because there has to come out the grease and compressed air, to push the cap in the axle is like a piston in a cylinder. I had to make this experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 To remove it I use one of my Knipex water pump wrenches Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, Tr4aJim said: Great idea about welding the nut! However, I’m surprised by Rogers comment of welding the nut on the inside. Do the caps you have available in Britain have enough room inside for a nut to fit between the cap and the spindle? The caps I’ve been using have so little clearance, that you can see the cotter pin leg I’ve bent over the spindle, through the hole in the cap. Jim There isnt room enough inside. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Hi Folks, I was asking the question as I didn't know of it was possible. If not possible then an adaption of John's idea on the outside. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4aJim Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Thanks Roger. So it sounds like all the caps are the same size. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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