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cubehopper

Diff problems

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After years of clunking from my back end (the cars not mine ),and just recently after a drive with the hood up,hearing a whining from the diff I have decided to strip it down, as its the only thing that hasn't been looked at for years, if ever.

Numerous UJs have been replaced along with new driveshafts,new hubs, and diff pins boxed and strengthened, but still the clunking persisted,so 

I`m pinning my hopes on the diff being worn.

First impressions after removing the diffs back cover is that the crown wheel,sun gears and planet gears look in good nick,but there is 10 thou back lash

on the crown wheel and when I levered the planet gears towards the sun gears and measured with my DTI on the planet gear there is a huge 35thou 

movement.

Have I finally found my problem,am I right in thinking that the planet gears thrust washers are cream crackered.

I intend to fully strip and rebuild the diff replacing bearings seals etc.

Does anyone have any views on the diff rebuild kits from Moss,ie are the bearings and seals a good quality.

Any advice from anyone who`s tackled the diff rebuild gratefully received.

Wish me luck 

                       Dave

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for those links Peter, closer inspection of the Moss kit shows them to be Timken.

When I`ve got it fully stripped I may try some independent bearing stockists

Dave

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Use new diff mount bushings.

Good luck. Cheers, Walt

Edited by Sapphire72

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Beware the collapsible spacer type pinion.  

This is readily identified by a nylon nut holding the pinion drive flange to the pinion rather than a slotted nut with split pin/wire locking.  Setting pinion preload with a collapsible spacer can be a challenger.  You can reuse an over crushed spacer by fitting a shim from an MG diff of sorts - I do not know which MG. - or grind off the shoulder and use a solid spacer and shims from an earlier model TR,  or Saloon.

Worn sun and planet gear thrust washers is an issue.  

I have a selection of new and used if you know the sizes you need. In  thousandths of Inch  0.000" - I do not have a metric measuring stick for curved surfaces.

I usually fit a pair of either NOS fibre ones from late TR6 diff or a pair of used equal sized phosphor bronze ones from earlier cars.

PM Me if you know what you are after.

Crown wheel backlash is the other area of 'clonk'  Set this by moving shims on the diff carrier bearings.

Cheers

Peter W

 

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT

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22 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

I do not have a metric measuring stick for curved surfaces.

 

 

Hi Pete,

           if you have a mm micrometer then you can use a ball bearing to get over the curved surface.

Measure the diameter of the BB and then put  this on the concave side of the curve. Remove the BB diameter form your measurement.

Roger

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I post-ordered new diff bushes 3 years ago, have not driven the car yet, but they are black “rubber”, but almost like plastic. The old metalastic ones were much softer.

I would not be surprised if they fail soon (or transmit noise) after commissioning, will then swap to soft PU bushes.

So I do not recommend the hard rubber bushes.

Waldi

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planets wont mek it wine,n dine.

they only come in play whenst corners appear,

one side bigger than the other, its roundabouts t,blame

try an get the curved,ns as bigg an as tight as will go in

they need tapped in wid a punch. as the carriers  no smoothe, so a nice fit that lets shafts turn,

will be as slack as a laydee of the night in a few miles

mek,m really tight, and they be just right after a wee while, DONT use the fibre weshers, they drop t,bits, honest they doo.

try an put a few indents in  both types, like the g/b thrusts, it,ll hold oil better

 

caution whenst mov,n carrier or pin depth, tget a tolerance..........

they be matched as they are noo,  worn to a pattern. { CW/P }

moving either one will moer than likely mek things wuss.

some times ye just cannae get the backlash doon to factory,  but yet  have a quiet diff. can ev 10+ thou backlash and its quiet

can go to spec, an its as noisey / wine as owt.

gotta run it up at speeds wid an electic drill  , if it runs quiet, yer ok, if it ..rattles, { yeel soon know !! } its gonna be noisey int car

 this even though the contact pattern is spot on.

 

if its a collapse spacer, try an mek it a solid,n easy t,doo, and will save quite alot of greif,

no to mentionee extra spacers !!!!

 

gud luk

M

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Thanks for all the tips . The diff has the slotted nut on the pinion so hopefully then it will be a solid spacer but

the car is a 73 CR so it seems that the diff may have been changed at some point .

Reading the comments it seems to me  that its hit or miss whether you get a quiet clunk free diff even if all the measurements are correct.

Dave

 

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15 hours ago, cubehopper said:

Thanks for those links Peter, closer inspection of the Moss kit shows them to be Timken.

When I`ve got it fully stripped I may try some independent bearing stockists

Dave

Try BRT for bearings as they are one of the largest bearing distributors here in the UK and have branches all over the UK. They don't sell **** bearings, they are usually well known European and Jap. brands. Unfortunately some of the original spec. bearings are now obsolete?

Bruce.

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If its a solid spacer, make sure the condition of any shim you re-use is spot-on. I once had a shim break out from the pack, lodge in the front roller bearing, and at 50 mph it was like being grabbed by a big hand from behind. Result, pinion welded to inner race - new CW & P required.

 

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Hi Bob, I was going to replace  shims with new as I went along, but after reading about all the potential problems/pitfalls along with the cost of quality bearings/shims/seals, and then at the end of the day it may be down to a certain amount of luck whether the diff is ok or not, I am beginning to question if its worth the hassle of rebuilding it.

Rimmers have recon units in stock at £552 ,don't really know  the quality of the bearings fitted though. I need to decide whether its cost effective to have a go 

myself or just scoot off to Rimmers pay the extra money and possibly save myself a lot of grief.

I used to be really indecisive but now I`m not too sure :D:D

Dave

 

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Hi Dave,

            I like to do my own Building & Bodging - that way you know how bad it is.

I was considering the diff but lack of special tools put me off.

 

have a look here for inspiration on Ed's blog. He even made the special tools. 

 

Roger

 

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Send it to Hardy Engineering, Leatherhead. I've had 2 done there recently.  £750 each with new CWP etc etc. (their own) Well pleased. Fit and forget.

No connection, just happy at the service.

best Bill

 

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Hi Bill,

           As we all know its a PITA removing /replacing the diff, so its  a job I only want to do once and  not  repeat, I`m getting too old to be spending hours laid on a cold garage floor with a couple of ton of metal above my head, so I may reconsider my options.

Dave

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Dave

I haven't done much on the forum but am beginning to realise that after 36 yrs of struggle, I might be able to offer just a little advice.

Far be it from me to influence your decision.... but, rebuilding diffs is a bit of a black art. I had a whiner once that even baffled the very experienced Pete Cox.  I have done one or two using improvised tooling to spread the casing but it was more by luck that it worked out OK. If you can establish what bearings Rimmer Bros are using, I would probably go for the exchange.  Best of luck.

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4 hours ago, bob buzzard said:

Dave

I haven't done much on the forum but am beginning to realise that after 36 yrs of struggle, I might be able to offer just a little advice.

Far be it from me to influence your decision.... but, rebuilding diffs is a bit of a black art. I had a whiner once that even baffled the very experienced Pete Cox.  I have done one or two using improvised tooling to spread the casing but it was more by luck that it worked out OK. If you can establish what bearings Rimmer Bros are using, I would probably go for the exchange.  Best of luck.

+1. A diff that suddenly locks up on a busy road is no fun at all  .

Edited by Mike C

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Fortune favours the brave, as the saying goes Bob, diff now stripped apart from the pinion which I might not disturb as the bearings seem ok.

Does anyone know where to obtain the  sun gear shims which are originally brass/bronze as mine are worn, the ones Rimmers/Moss sell, appear on the websites as though they are made from some sort of fibre/plastic, not sure about the durability of those .

Dave

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