silverfox4 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I am trying to install the new LED E10 dash bulbs provided by "Bettercarlighting", but while the original bulbs will screw in approx 1 1/4 turns, the LED's will only go about 1/4 turn and stand quite proud. Thinking it might be the old bulb holder, I also purchased some new holders and it's the same story. Any advice, as I don't want to damage the LED's using pliers or other tool assistance Cheers, Alf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Hi Alf, they should have the same thread. Hold the LED thread against the filament bulb thread - they should fit together. Using a Micrometer measure the OD of the thread. You could try the ID with a vernier. If they come up as the same then they may just need an extra bit of effort - long nose pliers on the metal base. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Don’t TRy screw them in to much as the Head Snaps Off,yes been there done that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 The threads are MES (miniature edison screw) which are normally a pretty sloppy fit in the holder and the resistance felt usually is from the pip on the base of the bulb against the bottom sprung contact. In this case you can see that the bottom contact hasn't moved, compared to the old bulb which has pushed the black bit further down. Is there a large solder pip on the side of the new bulb which is preventing it entering the socket properly? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) I had the same problem as Niall - lost a head on one of them before realising how fragile they were. got them all in eventually though.... I used a couple of new holders and a couple of old ones, swapping between 8nstruments that had a little more room for the bulb head - end result was good, I can actually see the 8nstruments at night. i chose white bulbs, many prefer green...... Andy Edited October 14, 2018 by AndyR100 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Try pulling on the wire (against the spring inside) as you screw the bulb in. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverfox4 Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Thanks for all the input. These rudimentary threads are not easy to measure accurately, but it does appear that the LED's maybe about .002" - .003" larger at the root suggesting that the thread is not the same profile. What impact this has on the overall scheme of things I don't know but the LED's are more difficult to screw in. After destroying one trying with fingers only I used mini pliers for persuasion and that worked, well the bulb lights on test. Lesson learned - Changing to LED could prove expensive with all the broken bulbs, if one is not careful Thanks again and Cheers, Alf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanG Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Looks like the thread pitch is not the same. This would cause the bulb to tighten the further it was screwed in. Alan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverfox4 Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Alan, That is my assessment as well. I sent a note to Gil Keane at "Bettercarlighting" last week, but no response yet. Cheers, Alf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 I fitted the same source bulbs to my 4A about 18 months ago and had no problems, screwed in easy but maybe the latest ones are different. I have one spare so will have a look tomorrow and compare to a standard bulb. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 I've checked my spare led against a removed original bulb and, I only have a scale Vernier not digital but by feel the results are Root diameter of led virtually same as original. OD of thread 2-4 thous smaller. My bulbs from better car lighting are BA9ES - soft white. The photos below indicate the thread is the same as original so maybe yours have been made wrong or are a bad batch. Hope this helps, Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverfox4 Posted October 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 Thx Chris, that does help. In your case, your two threads seem to correlate nicely, as opposed to mine. Mine are also the BA9ES but in the green - they are shown as direct replacements for Lucas 987. No response yet from Gil Keane at Better car lighting yet, so no solution the table yet. Many thanks for your efforts - greatly appreciated. Cheers, Alf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 Hi Alf, I had a problem with one of the tail light bulbs failing a couple of months after fitting and Gil sorted me out by replacing both rear bulbs with the latest versions which have been fine since. Excellent after sales service from BetterCarLighting so hopefully they will sort you out as well. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I am on very good terms with Gill, & we have had many technical discussions over the recent years, but do have a look at this site: https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/ I have found them to be at least as helpful, & sell good products at sensible prices. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverfox4 Posted October 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Thx Bob, I had a quick browse of their site. For the gauge bulbs, what is prevailing consensus; use the GLB 987 E10 MES in Flat profile (8 SMD - smaller) or the raised version (5 larger SMD) Cheers, Alf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I would choose either of these two, depending on whether you want warm white, or white https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/glb987-e10mes-warm-white-3000k-5-smd-led-bulbs-dashboard-gauge-lighting-1 https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/glb987-e10mes-5-smd-led-bulbs-dashboard-gauge-lighting Actually this is what I put in my TR3 from BCL around 4 years ago. http://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=170 Work fine but twice the price ! Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverfox4 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 Thanks Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverfox4 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Hi Bob, a brief update. I learned from Duncan that many of the new E10 threads are metric, which I presume could be what accounts for the difference in root diameter. If one runs into this problem, the suggestion is to open the thread "tongue" in the holder a tad (dremel I guess). Will have to try it when I get bulbs to replace all the one's I destroyed. Alf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 E10 (MES) bulb bases have been metric for along time Alf, to specification IEC 6061dating back 40 years, so Duncan's explanation doesn't wash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverfox4 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 uh oh more learning - will await new bulbs and see if any fudging required. Thx Alf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, RobH said: E10 (MES) bulb bases have been metric for along time Alf, to specification IEC 6061dating back 40 years, so Duncan's explanation doesn't wash. Even older than that Rob! From the IEC etech newsletter: "IEC work on lamp caps and holders and gauges used to measure them precisely dates back to 1925, when an Advisory Committee for the standardization of lamp caps and holders was set up with the objective of achieving international interchangeability. The committee cooperated with INDECO (the Independent Committee on Standardization of Lamp Caps and Holders) up to May 1939. Activities resumed in 1947 following an interruption caused by the war and IEC TC (Technical Committee) 34: Lamps and related equipment, was created in 1948. The first edition of "International recommendations regarding lamp caps and holders together with gauges for the control of interchangeability", prepared by SC 34B: Lamp caps and holders, was published in 1952, under the reference "Publication 61". This first publication was later expanded, becoming the IEC 60061 series of International Standards, a database of Standard sheets for all lamp caps, holders and gauges." Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 OK Pete - that makes the excuse even worse then ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 It appears there is another bulb base which looks identical to the E10/MES but which is nominally 1mm larger in diameter - naturally enough this is E11 or 'Mini candelabra' . Given that these bases are usually a bit undersize to give a loose (ish) fit in the holder, perhaps a slightly undersize E11 would give the tight fit in an E10 holder. I wonder whether the bulb manufacturer just got hold of the wrong type? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverfox4 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Wow, this forum is great with so many informed contributors. The plot thickens, but there seems little that can br done about, but purchase additional bulbs from different sources and hope that some of them fit. Clearly Bob and others have got them to work quite satisfactorily. I have now dismembered a broken bulb and using the base only with pliers trying to install and determine what has to be modified in the holder This is becoming a mindless time consuming and expensive dash bulb upgrade... cheers Alf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 There is another twist to this, a few years ago there was a batch of new bulb holders that were slightly undersize in the thread and you couldnt actually screw a bulb into them, I had a couple of new looms with them fitted. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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