Ebay: 'Le Mans TR2' for sale.

[hpremote]

Hi, all:

Has anyone any thoughts on this car - 'PKV 375'?

Tim.

[RogerH]

Hi Tim,

here it is.

           https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR-2-Le-Mans-Works-Car/153198684956?hash=item23ab5a6b1c:g:G0cAAOSwCx5brnOB

Only £30K

Roger

Edited October 3, 2018 by RogerH

[hpremote]

Thanks, Roger.

It seems rather good value for a works Le Mans car. Must check Graham's book on Works' Triumphs.

Tim.

[rhino_mac]

1 hour ago, RogerH said:

 

           https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR-2-Le-Mans-Works-Car/153198684956?hash=item23ab5a6b1c:g:G0cAAOSwCx5brnOB

Only £30K

Roger

That's just the starting bid Rog, the reserve could be ten times that.

If it were my car and it was genuine, I'd have every expert in the field give me a bit of paper to authenticate it.

[roy53]

cannot wait to hear the comments from knowledgeable on this car.

[john.r.davies]

From Piston Heads, and one "The Surveyor": https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=134&t=1770319

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR-2-Le-Mans-Wo...

I thought you guys could shed some light on the attached, this car was damaged in the 1955 Le Mans race and apparently written-off. 

This very nice car popped up on ebay last night (wasn't there this morning) reporting to be the lost 3rd team car PKV 375. It looks like the identity of the original and registration number have been reunited around a nice TR2 shell to re-make the car, or could this actually be the original restored.

I know it raises the usual questions over the authenticity of historic race cars which may have been re-shelled and re-built over the years, but given that the original does look to be 'lost' would this be seen as original, a nice replica, a homage, or an utter fake amongst enthusiasts.

John

[Ian Vincent]

26 minutes ago, roy53 said:

cannot wait to hear the comments from knowledgeable on this car.

I think all the knowledgeables made their comments on the previous post on PRK 374 375 376  and based on their comments PRK 375 is likely to be a re-creation from a pile of rust and some residual paperwork.

Rgds Ian

[Paul Hogan]

If I'm not mistaken this is Alan Fishburn's car  which has been subject to a number of inquiries as to its voracity as an ex works car. The story i have is that the car languished in a Durham Scrap yard for years and was little more than a pile of rust.   Both Mike Ellis and myself have seen photo's of a badly rusted chassis and its subsequent restoration.  The fly in the ointment is that someone else sent me a photograph of his garage with PKV375 standing next to the Le Mans TR7V8 turbo.  Sadly the owner of that car wont let anyone see it either but he says he has the V5 too.  But whatever paper work the DVLA  hand out, the car cannot be in Somerset and the North East at the same time! 

Hoges. 

[TorontoTim]

Hoges - you mean there are two cars claiming to be the same ex-works car?  My goodness, that never happens, does it...? 

More seriously, how do these things get sorted out?  Does it always end up in court?

[Hamish]

1 hour ago, Paul Hogan said:

If I'm not mistaken this is Alan Fishburn's car  which has been subject to a number of inquiries as to its voracity as an ex works car. The story i have is that the car languished in a Durham Scrap yard for years and was little more than a pile of rust.   Both Mike Ellis and myself have seen photo's of a badly rusted chassis and its subsequent restoration.  The fly in the ointment is that someone else sent me a photograph of his garage with PKV375 standing next to the Le Mans TR7V8 turbo.  Sadly the owner of that car wont let anyone see it either but he says he has the V5 too.  But whatever paper work the DVLA  hand out, the car cannot be in Somerset and the North East at the same time! 

Hoges. 

Somerset. 

Isnt that where Revington is. 

Or was is a different garage ??

[iain]

1 hour ago, Paul Hogan said:

If I'm not mistaken this is Alan Fishburn's car  which has been subject to a number of inquiries as to its voracity as an ex works car. The story i have is that the car languished in a Durham Scrap yard for years and was little more than a pile of rust.   Both Mike Ellis and myself have seen photo's of a badly rusted chassis and its subsequent restoration.  The fly in the ointment is that someone else sent me a photograph of his garage with PKV375 standing next to the Le Mans TR7V8 turbo.  Sadly the owner of that car wont let anyone see it either but he says he has the V5 too.  But whatever paper work the DVLA  hand out, the car cannot be in Somerset and the North East at the same time! 

Hoges. 

Are you sure you mean Somerset Hoges....I thought the “other” car was at Brooklands.

Neil Fender in Somerset had PKV693 but has sold it. This was an ex Tulip rally works car.

Iain 

ps if there’s  one up north , one at Weybridge and one near the TR7v8 Turbo.......that’s 3 or am I missing something.?

Edited October 3, 2018 by iain

[Tom Boyd]

46 minutes ago, iain said:

Are you sure you mean Somerset Hoges....I thought the “other” car was at Brooklands.

Neil Fender in Somerset had PKV693 but has sold it. This was an ex Tulip rally works car.

Iain 

ps if there’s  one up north , one at Weybridge and one near the TR7v8 Turbo.......that’s 3 or am I missing something.?

Neil Fender is located in Bath... He owned 693 for years..

[Hamish]

Hey 

who wants one of those old ones ?

when you can have a brand new one !!

[Paul Hogan]

Hi there, yes i did mean Somerset but not at Neil Revington's place.   This was a private house that also had .the ADA TR7V8  in it during its early RED body colour phase.   appareantly he is/was a friend of Peter Knott   who was closely involved with the ADA project.  Mike Ellis is aware  of this other owners identity  but no one from the club has actually seen it despite requests to do so. 

hoges. 

[oldtuckunder]

On 10/3/2018 at 6:55 PM, Paul Hogan said:

If I'm not mistaken this is Alan Fishburn's car  which has been subject to a number of inquiries as to its voracity as an ex works car. The story i have is that the car languished in a Durham Scrap yard for years and was little more than a pile of rust.   Both Mike Ellis and myself have seen photo's of a badly rusted chassis and its subsequent restoration.  The fly in the ointment is that someone else sent me a photograph of his garage with PKV375 standing next to the Le Mans TR7V8 turbo.  Sadly the owner of that car wont let anyone see it either but he says he has the V5 too.  But whatever paper work the DVLA  hand out, the car cannot be in Somerset and the North East at the same time! 

Hoges. 

For God's sake don't post this on the TR5 Forum, they will be down in Swansea dragging the CEO of the DVLA out of bed by breakfast and demanding under the FOA that he publish the VIN's and Registration numbers of every TR in the DVLA system. You know how up tight they get about the possibility that the odd TR250 might be masquerading as a TR5, imagine what their reaction would be to 30% of the Le Mans TR2's being fake! 

Of course a perfect lead in to How much of a TR5 can you replace and it still be a TR5? Of which I think I have seen explained just about 100% provided you have a genuine log book/V5

Alan (ducking for cover) 

[mike ellis]

On 10/3/2018 at 8:35 PM, TorontoTim said:

More seriously, how do these things get sorted out?  Does it always end up in court?

Tim, ultimately it can just look at the court case around the identity of the Bentley known as Old No 1 which is one reason I won’t be commenting on this car.

As there are some errors of fact already on this thread, for the avoidance of doubt, nothing attributed to me should be relied on as my view unless it is posted by me.

 

[tr graham]

Do not joke about DVLA or we may end up with Q plates on ALL imported  tr cars going forward 

[oldtuckunder]

I wasn't, it was a swipe at those who thought the DVLA were the right body to contact about 5/250 chassis numbers!

Alan

[Bill.P.]

I too know something of this matter.....suffice to say that when I was the club;'s V765  car authentication officer, which I was for 26 years , I was never afforded the opportunity to view either claimant car to the "PKV 375" appellation, despite requests...…. BP

[trevorfox]

there is recent paper work from Geoff Mansfield who has known the car for a long time and on very old (1970s)TR Register notepaper from Graham Robson (but I think he just referred to the reg number rather than having inspected it). I have expressed an interest in the car but from the paperwork I have seen, I would need to see a lot more. the owner has been very forthcoming. to be fair to the chap there was a contrary claim to ownership but there is clear evidence that this was withdrawn. I am guessing that this car does contain the remains of the original works car but it is probably a bit like Trigger's broom. but that is often going to be inevitable isn't it? i suppose the test is just how much remains from the original. the early documents suggest that there was no engine which it pretty significant. who would one contact now in the register to authenticate it properly? it would undoubtedly be a lovely car to own but could one honestly say look this car raced at Le Mans...TF

[Paul Heritage2]

If the seller genuinely thought it was the original car why would he put it on eBay with a starting bid of £30k? (ignore whatever reserve). Surely you’d go through due diligence and have it authenticated and get an auction house involved and maximum exposure. Would you not expect this car to be worth £300k if the the real thing? Doesn’t add up, and I don’t know the car but all seems wrong. However, for a nice TR2 and a works reg, it has to be worth a lot more than the starting bid. 

[trevorfox]

bill, on this subject, there is a list of scrapped tr2s on the internet and this one (assuming it is) is described as wrecked 70th lap le mans. but all my books say all three cars finished. can you throw any light on that? TF

UK 55 TR2 TS 5582-O 1955 PKV 375 Thomas Voglar, wrecked in 70th lap, 1955 LeMans

does anyone out there have any knowledge of what happened to PKV 375 between Le Mans 1955 and its being found at Skippers of Darlington in the 1970s.

[Bill.P.]

All 3 TR2s DID indeed finish the '55 Le Mans.....375 was not "wrecked"......I know nothing of a list of scrapped TR 2s , and certainly wouldn't set any store by such a thing....how does anyone know what was scrapped, when and by whom, and anyway, what does "scrapped" actually mean in the context of a car ? A dismantled car can always be "re-mantled".  Graham Robson did not inspect the car, but it WAS inspected in the scrapyard circa 1972 by the late Jan Pearce, owner since 1970 of PKV374. He told me so himself. Thomas Volgar owns 376 as far as I know and is not connected with 375.  I do have some knowledge of the history of 375, but this is a particularly sensitive subject...... BP

[trevorfox]

if anyone wants to contact me off forum I am on fox@resipsa.co.uk

[roy53]

Is NOT the vin number the most important fact in which is the correct car ?

reg can be placed on any car but surely only one can have the correct  chassis no